The Masked Tulip Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Bargain! I mean, it is one of the few things that the Welsh Assembly have spent public money on that actually generates an income http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24844182 Edit: At that rate it would take around 452 years to offset the cost of buying and installing the turbine. I wonder if they have allowed for compound interest on the original 48K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Shows you the true value of all the hot air they generate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 That's feck all to what they spend on the Welsh language, by that metric it's not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 That's feck all to what they spend on the Welsh language, by that metric it's not too bad. You've done it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 You've done it now Feck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 800 years to get their money back like you say a bargin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 800 years to get their money back like you say a bargin That's about as long as the Welsh nats have been banging on about the language so 800 years probably seems normal to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappycocco Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 This will go down in the Guinness book of records as politician's most profitable investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Bargain! I mean, it is one of the few things that the Welsh Assembly have spent public money on that actually generates an income http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24844182 Edit: I wonder if they have allowed for compound interest on the original 48K I had a similar issue at a council I I worked at 5 years ago. They proposed to spend £40K on some roof mounted chocolate teapots. I suggested that a much more environmental friendly and financially effective way of investing in wind power would be by putting the money into a wind power community scheme building utility scale wind turbines. The annual return on these is about 8-9%. Of course the townhall mounted chocolate teapots was the preferred method Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How long will it take for the £16 billion nuclear power stations to 'pay back', including a few extra £billion in clean up costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How long will it take for the £16 billion nuclear power stations to 'pay back', including a few extra £billion in clean up costs? I guess that depends on how you measure the cost of not having to have blackouts. The really, really stupid one is having a massive natural energy resource like the Severn Estuary and not using it. That place, with a combination of barrages, tidal pools and windfarms, maybe even some tidal turbines if the tech comes on a bit, could be generating a huge amount of energy within a few years. If we can afford to bribe the French and Chinese to build the nukes, why not the barrages and tidal pools? I would guess that none of the Bullingdon club or their friends have relevant financial interests in the Severn projects so that would be why they shelved it so soon after election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I guess that depends on how you measure the cost of not having to have blackouts. The really, really stupid one is having a massive natural energy resource like the Severn Estuary and not using it. That place, with a combination of barrages, tidal pools and windfarms, maybe even some tidal turbines if the tech comes on a bit, could be generating a huge amount of energy within a few years. If we can afford to bribe the French and Chinese to build the nukes, why not the barrages and tidal pools? I would guess that none of the Bullingdon club or their friends have relevant financial interests in the Severn projects so that would be why they shelved it so soon after election. closer to the truth than you know. I remember a source I knew well who worked for the old CEGB saying that when it was nuclear vs tidal planning, nukes won because i) it gave materials for our weapons and ii) none of the pollies mates could see a way of getting rich off it. That was back in the 70's and early 80's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Bargain! I mean, it is one of the few things that the Welsh Assembly have spent public money on that actually generates an income http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24844182 Edit: I wonder if they have allowed for compound interest on the original 48K Some completely incoherent figures in that article. The bloke from the turbine company says it's in the wrong place and a turbine that size in the right place should produce 9000kwh a year, which seems quite good. It is stated elsewhere that it's now operating at 68% capacity, generating 55.25 Kwh per month. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Some completely incoherent figures in that article. The bloke from the turbine company says it's in the wrong place and a turbine that size in the right place should produce 9000kwh a year, which seems quite good. It is stated elsewhere that it's now operating at 68% capacity, generating 55.25 Kwh per month. What? Is it one of those foil windmills you give to kids, hooked up to a 3V motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Is it one of those foil windmills you give to kids, hooked up to a 3V motor? Might as well be. Grid tied micro turbines on buildings are feckin useless - air flows are too turbulent plus you dont have the economy of scale with a MW sized turbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Might as well be. Grid tied micro turbines on buildings are feckin useless - air flows are too turbulent plus you dont have the economy of scale with a MW sized turbine. Are they any use for anything? I suppose you can't rely on them and really need some way of storing the power generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Are they any use for anything? I suppose you can't rely on them and really need some way of storing the power generated. Off grid locations for storing batteries they are useful - especially if they save you from having to haul diesel to a generator. Grid connections = chocolate teapot. Utility scale wind turbines have got bigger for a reason - economy of scale, height, and better output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 closer to the truth than you know. I remember a source I knew well who worked for the old CEGB saying that when it was nuclear vs tidal planning, nukes won because i) it gave materials for our weapons and ii) none of the pollies mates could see a way of getting rich off it. That was back in the 70's and early 80's.... Plenty of room for both, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How long will it take for the £16 billion nuclear power stations to 'pay back', including a few extra £billion in clean up costs? Just to clarify: 'pay back' for who? EDF, or the taxpayer (the guy's who's promised to buy the leccy at twice today's price, and to clean up the mess afterwards)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How long will it take for the £16 billion nuclear power stations to 'pay back', including a few extra £billion in clean up costs? Depends whether you're only counting the direct financial costs or the less direct benefits of having a reliable, continuous electricity supply or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How long will it take for the £16 billion nuclear power stations to 'pay back', including a few extra £billion in clean up costs? Very, very roughly: I think the combined capacity of the plants is 6,400 Mw, the wholesale price today is about £55 so the plants will earn £350,000 per hour. £16bn/£350,000 gives approximately 45,000 hours of operation to payback the capital investment, which is roughly 5 1/2 years. Which ignores operating costs, I'm not sure what other costs are included in the £16bn figure, also for some reason we've guaranteed a price of £95 per hour for the output. But as a rough estimate say 5 years out of a probable 30 year life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Very, very roughly: I think the combined capacity of the plants is 6,400 Mw, the wholesale price today is about £55 so the plants will earn £350,000 per hour. £16bn/£350,000 gives approximately 45,000 hours of operation to payback the capital investment, which is roughly 5 1/2 years. Which ignores operating costs, I'm not sure what other costs are included in the £16bn figure, also for some reason we've guaranteed a price of £95 per hour for the output. But as a rough estimate say 5 years out of a probable 30 year life. I recall construction costs for new build nuke consititute about 65-70% of life time costs. Fuel only represents about 3%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Very, very roughly: I think the combined capacity of the plants is 6,400 Mw, the wholesale price today is about £55 so the plants will earn £350,000 per hour. £16bn/£350,000 gives approximately 45,000 hours of operation to payback the capital investment, which is roughly 5 1/2 years. Which ignores operating costs, I'm not sure what other costs are included in the £16bn figure, also for some reason we've guaranteed a price of £95 per hour for the output. But as a rough estimate say 5 years out of a probable 30 year life. So they'll get 608k per hour which after a few years, depending on operating costs will be mostly profit. What a fabulous investment. Except that EDF aren't British and we're talking GBP here, and as GBP won't be worth anything in a few years that may reduce the brilliance of this deal from their point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Just to clarify: 'pay back' for who? EDF, or the taxpayer (the guy's who's promised to buy the leccy at twice today's price, and to clean up the mess afterwards)? The taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Off grid locations for storing batteries they are useful - especially if they save you from having to haul diesel to a generator. Grid connections = chocolate teapot. Utility scale wind turbines have got bigger for a reason - economy of scale, height, and better output. Yes I read of some Americans that made a wind generator, by carving the blades and sticking powerful magnets on an old brake disk. The coils were set in epoxy and it kept their battery in their "hunting lodge" charged! I'll bet they were well "off grid" to make this worthwhile. Still I'll wager it works better than those plastic ones from Maplins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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