London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Looks like more hype and rubbish - can't possibly be right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Looks like more hype and rubbish - can't possibly be right If you were confident it were true, and there was no prospect of a crash, I suspect you wouldn't bother to log onto this site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 If you were confident it were true, and there was no prospect of a crash, I suspect you wouldn't bother to log onto this site! You're right - maybe that explains why there are so few bulls who bother to post versus all the bears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) You're right - maybe that explains why there are so few bulls who bother to post versus all the bears! Exactly. I reckon bulls on this site fall into 2 categories: 1. They're here for the sport, to wind up the Bears. 2. They're a bit worried that prices might fall, and they're here to listen to the debate and make up their mind. Which are you? Edited November 22, 2005 by Casual Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Exactly. I reckon bulls on this site fall into 2 categories: 1. They're here for the sport, to wind up the Bears. 2. They're a bit worried that prices might fall, and they're here to listen to the debate and make up their mind. Which are you? Neither There is a third category - people who want to warn FTB's not to listen to all thedoom & gloom on here and to form their own opinion taking all the facts into account plus other people's experiences over the years.. I have no axe to grind (other than the response I got to my first post) and it irritates me that when anyone posts a positive tale they are accused of lying and facts are demanded - but a negative story (eg STR) gets lots of well done responses but no facts are requested. this is going off topic What do you think about the standard's report last night? I suspect (but I don't know) that the standard has alarger readership in London than this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Neither There is a third category - people who want to warn FTB's not to listen to all thedoom & gloom on here and to form their own opinion taking all the facts into account plus other people's experiences over the years.. I have no axe to grind (other than the response I got to my first post) and it irritates me that when anyone posts a positive tale they are accused of lying and facts are demanded - but a negative story (eg STR) gets lots of well done responses but no facts are requested. this is going off topic What do you think about the standard's report last night? I suspect (but I don't know) that the standard has alarger readership in London than this website. Well, your post evidently expels you from your third category, doesn't it? Do you really think it's positive that prices may have risen 10k in 1 month? Is that good for the ftb's you are so concerned about?Would it be doom and gloom for them if they'd gone down that much? Well, your post evidently expels you from your third category, doesn't it? Do you really think it's positive that prices may have risen 10k in 1 month? Is that good for the ftb's you are so concerned about?Would it be doom and gloom for them if they'd gone down that much? I just told my FTB son that prices rose 10k last month. Funnily he saw this has a bit negative to his prospects of buying a house. I can't understand it - London Landlady tells me it's really positive news. Edited November 22, 2005 by Casual Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Well, your post evidently expels you from your third category, doesn't it? Do you really think it's positive that prices may have risen 10k in 1 month? Is that good for the ftb's you are so concerned about?Would it be doom and gloom for them if they'd gone down that much? You are misunderstanding what I said. I think that people who read and use this forum should be allowed to see both sides of the argument. If you tell FTB's that prices are going to go down and they wait for this to happen, and then it doesn't, what does that do for a FTB? prices them out of the market even more. If you tell them that there are signs that prices are now moving again - they can decide if they want to buy or not. If you give them the facts - they can form their own opinion. I keep saying that I think London is ahead of the rest of teh UK and that what has happened in London will be repeated round the rest of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 If you tell them that there are signs that prices are now moving again - they can decide if they want to buy or not. I think you misunderstand the situation. Many FTBs can't afford to buy because prices have risen too high. The percentage of buyers who are FTBs is about 9%. For many this is not about choice. And, sorry if I don't believe you're some kind of philanthropist (category 3) concerned about FTBs. If you were you would clearly want prices to fall. Methinks you've got your landlady hat on when you post, not your Mother Theresa hat. And as I said at the beginning, I suspect you are a category 2 person, worried about the value of your portfolio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E Powell Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Londonlandlady You have a point and your bullish post should be allowed to run. As a former professional landlord who did have 10 btls all over the UK. Its amateurs like you who have messed up yields for people like me. There are 1 million btls in this country all thanks to new labour giving away cheap credit. Most are idiots who have recently jumped on the bandwagon. I managed to sell my last btl to an amateur a year ago and this individual is finding it very hard to cover the mortgage. UP WITH THE CRASH Edited November 22, 2005 by E Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bounce????? Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I would like to see some evidence to back up their statement then form an opinion. You see my problem is none of these large EA's have reported a fall in prices in fact most have said prices have been rising all year. Ok maybe it's true. However if prices have never droped why do we have headlines like "UK house prices 'recover' " from the BBC. I'm certainly no economist or expert but something smells fishy. I think I know carp when I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 I think you misunderstand the situation. Many FTBs can't afford to buy because prices have risen too high. The percentage of buyers who are FTBs is about 9%. For many this is not about choice. And, sorry if I don't believe you're some kind of philanthropist (category 3) concerned about FTBs. If you were you would clearly want prices to fall. Methinks you've got your landlady hat on when you post, not your Mother Theresa hat. And as I said at the beginning, I suspect you are a category 2 person, worried about the value of your portfolio. Hmmm - if I had my mother Theresa hat on - I would sell all my properties and share out the proceeds to pay for some FTB's deposits. I don't think I have ever claimed to be that generous My concern is that the discussions should be fair and unbiased and that all posters should have equal rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlad1967 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 If you tell FTB's that prices are going to go down and they wait for this to happen, and then it doesn't, what does that do for a FTB? prices them out of the market even more. Hi LL, If the FTB's are priced out of the market totally, which I'm sure you agree is about the happen if prices continue to rise at the reported rate, the market will surely grind to a halt. How will anyone therefore be able to move up the ladder? Are landlord's going to buy up all the FTB properties? The rungs of the ladder will then move further apart so no one will be able to afford to move up the ladder. Your argument just doesn't make sense unless landlords are going to buy all the second rung and then third rung properties as well. I can quite clearly see the two sides of the argument, but I can't see any facts backing up how property can continually rise and rise without totally sucking all money out of the economy which is what is happening now. To be quite honest LL, it is you who is the doom monger as your wished for chain of events would bring the economy to its knees. How can wanting affordable and appropriately priced housing be classed as doom mongering? This is a classic bubble but I don't think you see it at all. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Looks like more hype and rubbish - can't possibly be right You are referring to an article by Rightmove? They are the comical Ali's of the property world Aren't they the ones who said that the market is picking up even though it never fell to start with? Edited November 22, 2005 by pioneer31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 To be quite honest LL, it is you who is the doom monger as your wished for chain of events would bring the economy to its knees. How can wanting affordable and appropriately priced housing be classed as doom mongering? This is a classic bubble but I don't think you see it at all. Cheers. Spot on. I just don't understand how anyone can see increased affordability of housing as doom-mongering (especially whilst claiming to be concerned about FTBs). Can someone please explain this? Londonlandlady You have a point and your bullish post should be allowed run. As a former professional landlord who did have 10 btls all over the UK. Its amateurs like you who have messed up yields for people like me. There are 1 million btls in this country all thanks to new labour giving away cheap credit. Most are idiots who have jumped on the bandwagon. I managed to sell my last btl to an amateur a year ago and this individual is finding it very hard to cover the mortgage. UP WITH THE CRASH I'm afraid my younger brother is a clasic case. He bought a BTL flat in late 2003 ("you can't go wrong"). His rental income has never covered his mortgage and other costs. He's had nothing but aggro and hard work and now he can't find a buyer at the price he paid for it, having written off any prospect of capital gains. He'd like to believe that prices have risen by 10k, but funnily enough his flat hasn't risen that much in 2 years (NW London) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) You are misunderstanding what I said. I think that people who read and use this forum should be allowed to see both sides of the argument. fair enough If you tell FTB's that prices are going to go down and they wait for this to happen, and then it doesn't, what does that do for a FTB? prices them out of the market even more. if you tell people to buy now and they do and then the whole thing tumbles then you've steered them into a trap I also don't understand how somebody who owns property can believe the market has any more steam in it. Simple Economics question - How do you sell to people who cannot afford to buy? The bulls are thin on the ground because their arguments are full of holes. I suspect most of them don't understand how markets work at all. They are the sort who think that money is created from thin air, faithfully swallowing all the Kirsty and Phil claptrap Please explain why you think the market will pick up......and where will the money come from seeing that so many people are priced out (A question I keep asking and remains yet unanswered) Edited November 22, 2005 by pioneer31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Neither There is a third category - people who want to warn FTB's not to listen to all thedoom & gloom on here and to form their own opinion taking all the facts into account plus other people's experiences over the years.. I have no axe to grind (other than the response I got to my first post) and it irritates me that when anyone posts a positive tale they are accused of lying and facts are demanded - but a negative story (eg STR) gets lots of well done responses but no facts are requested. this is going off topic What do you think about the standard's report last night? I suspect (but I don't know) that the standard has alarger readership in London than this website. Where is the "doom and gloom" in lower house inflation and more affordability for more people? Why is inflation a bad thing for all kinds of assets except houses where people get drunk on the illusion of wealth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Where is the "doom and gloom" in lower house inflation and more affordability for more people? Why is inflation a bad thing for all kinds of assets except houses where people get drunk on the illusion of wealth? I suspect that LL is trying to wind us up. Only a complete idiot would describe rising prices as positive news`for FTBs, and I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxytrader Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 "If you tell FTB's that prices are going to go down and they wait for this to happen, and then it doesn't, what does that do for a FTB? prices them out of the market even more." How selfless of you. However LL you haven't actually presented any rationale as to why house prices should go UP. There does not appear to be any substance to your argument. Should buyers walk into estate agents and inadvertently buy property just for the sake of it? House prices either go up or they go down. Give me one good driver on the upside please. Personally don't see any and that is why the market will fall. If you are saying FTBs should definitely dive in now then you are more ill-informed than I thought. "If you give them the facts - they can form their own opinion." What "facts"? You've given them the equivalent of a stockbrokers "buy" recommendation for a stock he owns but can't shift in presenting the Rightmove report as evidence of the market firming.. It's cruel and bizarre to want to bring these people (FTBs) into the market just to underpin it a bit longer before it falls off a cliff. It's a classic Ponzi and the last note of the game of property musical chairs is echoing around the room. Rightmove is a terribly Mickey Mouse operation and were it to show a 10% FALL in asking prices I still wouldn't give it any credence. Asking prices as an indication of the health of the market?!! Its twaddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Looks like more hype and rubbish - can't possibly be right Correct - it is both hype and rubbish. In my neck of the woods - North London - prices are heading down. Most on the stuff on Rightmove has had 5k, 10k, etc chunks dropped off it over the last year or so, and most of it still hasn't sold, even when some of the total chops have been 50k+. So, how Rightmove can have property 'leaping' up by 10k a month when their own web site shows prices falling at that rate is beyond me. Still, who cares, you'd be a fool to buy at these prices anyway. Nomadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Well, your post evidently expels you from your third category, doesn't it? Do you really think it's positive that prices may have risen 10k in 1 month? Is that good for the ftb's you are so concerned about?Would it be doom and gloom for them if they'd gone down that much? I just told my FTB son that prices rose 10k last month. Funnily he saw this has a bit negative to his prospects of buying a house. I can't understand it - London Landlady tells me it's really positive news. I do not recall saying that house prices rising is positive news for FTB's - I agree that it would be very bad news. The gloom & doom I referred to is about the whole - "Prices will drop 50%" - "we are all going to lose our jobs" eetc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I do not recall saying that house prices rising is positive news for FTB's - I agree that it would be very bad news. The gloom & doom I referred to is about the whole - "Prices will drop 50%" - "we are all going to lose our jobs" eetc. etc. "it irritates me that when anyone posts a positive tale they are accused of lying and facts are demanded" What positive news were you referring to when you said this then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandylegs Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 LL if you believe that something bad is going to happen then is it "doom and gloom" to discuss and to plan for it? Positive as in up and increase is a simplistic mathematical understanding. Lower prices can be positive for the economy as a whole. You seem to be ignoring the opportunity to air your views as to why prices will rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Landlady Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 "it irritates me that when anyone posts a positive tale they are accused of lying and facts are demanded" What positive news were you referring to when you said this then? Sorry - it is unclear from the posts and I apologise. When I referred to "Positive Tale" - I was referreing to when I said I was a successful BTL - and everyone accused me of lying and demanded every last detail & then tried to show I was lying by misinterpreting everything I posted. Prices apparently rising in London simply backs up what I have been saying - it appears thet the decline is now reversing. Depending on your position - that is either positive (for a oproperty oewner) or negative for a non property owner. You can be a bearish property owner as well as a bullish one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Sorry - it is unclear from the posts and I apologise. When I referred to "Positive Tale" - I was referreing to when I said I was a successful BTL - and everyone accused me of lying and demanded every last detail & then tried to show I was lying by misinterpreting everything I posted. Prices apparently rising in London simply backs up what I have been saying - it appears thet the decline is now reversing. Depending on your position - that is either positive (for a oproperty oewner) or negative for a non property owner. You can be a bearish property owner as well as a bullish one. I'm a property owner, have been for 30 years. All rising prices have done for me is to prevent me from trading up to a better house. So why is it good news for a property owner, unless they are a speculator/investor? For owner occupiers it's only good if they're trading down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I posted a few months back that the sales figures were 20% up on last year for a large London E/A where my freind is sales director. Bears dismissed this with the usual 'what planet are u on' and 'anecdotal evidence means nothing'. NEW PREDICTION; You will hear shortly that people are buying off - plan in upscale London locations and flipping for profit. Im hearing things about a development on Pletts? (something beggining with P??) peninsular overlooking the Thames. City bonus's will drive the London market. I'm tempted to reserve myself, but too much on plate just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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