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Isn't It All About Mars

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The news of India's Mars mission made me think. For once. The next step for humans is obviously the other planets, then one day other solar systems. Even private individuals are doing this - the guys who made billions from new internet companies are now working on spaceX, etc. Mars is the new new world.

The Chinese, etc could switch off the US economy in a heartbeat. The argument is that they won't do this because the yankees will stop buying their plastic tat. Given that the Chinese plan decades and even centuries ahead, aren't they just working towards extra terranean colonisation?

Say they've got twenty or thirty years before this is a truly realistic prospect. In the meantime they exchange: plastic tat - for - paper dollars - (some of which) for - technology and monetary and energy resources. Catching up with the US over the next few decades, whilst keeping their finger on the 'off' switch.

Then... just as we're about capable to jump off this planet onto the others (whilst the Chinese are simultaneously arriving at a self sustaining consumer economy, control of the resources to sustain it - including the military capability to enforce this control), they sell all their Treasuries (assuming the dollar is still the reserve currency), crashing the US economy (including all NASA funding) - maybe even buying all the listed companies like spaceX (perhaps best case scenario rather than just destroying them).

Is this feasible, possible or even probable? Our politicians are just focussed on what their bankster meisters tell them to do next week. The only flies in the ointment I can think of are:

- Chindians are unable to sufficiently innovate due to their even worse political systems

- there is something behind/above the western banksters who can compete with the Chindians?

edit: and what effect would this have on UK house prices?

Edited by renewable

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The news of India's Mars mission made me think. For once. The next step for humans is obviously the other planets, then one day other solar systems. Even private individuals are doing this - the guys who made billions from new internet companies are now working on spaceX, etc. Mars is the new new world.

The Chinese, etc could switch off the US economy in a heartbeat. The argument is that they won't do this because the yankees will stop buying their plastic tat. Given that the Chinese plan decades and even centuries ahead, aren't they just working towards extra terranean colonisation?

Say they've got twenty or thirty years before this is a truly realistic prospect. In the meantime they exchange: plastic tat - for - paper dollars - (some of which) for - technology and monetary and energy resources. Catching up with the US over the next few decades, whilst keeping their finger on the 'off' switch.

Then... just as we're about capable to jump off this planet onto the others (whilst the Chinese are simultaneously arriving at a self sustaining consumer economy, control of the resources to sustain it - including the military capability to enforce this control), they sell all their Treasuries (assuming the dollar is still the reserve currency), crashing the US economy (including all NASA funding) - maybe even buying all the listed companies like spaceX (perhaps best case scenario rather than just destroying them).

Is this feasible, possible or even probable? Our politicians are just focussed on what their bankster meisters tell them to do next week. The only flies in the ointment I can think of are:

- Chindians are unable to sufficiently innovate due to their even worse political systems

- there is something behind/above the western banksters who can compete with the Chindians?

edit: and what effect would this have on UK house prices?

This is disturbing, are you okay?

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As we have discussed many times here, money doesn't actually exist, and this poses one major problem to this dark future. Should my dollar not be worth anything, i'll just print a new one called the Mc Dollar. Problem solved, by nature, we need to trade, and a brief loss of trust only postpones a return to the status quo.

Plus, a bankrupt US still has enough missiles to toast any spacecraft launches by any country cheeky enough to try and bankrupt it.

Sleep now, and rest in the arms of the dragon....

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The news of India's Mars mission made me think. For once. The next step for humans is obviously the other planets, then one day other solar systems. Even private individuals are doing this - the guys who made billions from new internet companies are now working on spaceX, etc. Mars is the new new world.

The Chinese, etc could switch off the US economy in a heartbeat. The argument is that they won't do this because the yankees will stop buying their plastic tat. Given that the Chinese plan decades and even centuries ahead, aren't they just working towards extra terranean colonisation?

Say they've got twenty or thirty years before this is a truly realistic prospect. In the meantime they exchange: plastic tat - for - paper dollars - (some of which) for - technology and monetary and energy resources. Catching up with the US over the next few decades, whilst keeping their finger on the 'off' switch.

Then... just as we're about capable to jump off this planet onto the others (whilst the Chinese are simultaneously arriving at a self sustaining consumer economy, control of the resources to sustain it - including the military capability to enforce this control), they sell all their Treasuries (assuming the dollar is still the reserve currency), crashing the US economy (including all NASA funding) - maybe even buying all the listed companies like spaceX (perhaps best case scenario rather than just destroying them).

Is this feasible, possible or even probable? Our politicians are just focussed on what their bankster meisters tell them to do next week. The only flies in the ointment I can think of are:

- Chindians are unable to sufficiently innovate due to their even worse political systems

- there is something behind/above the western banksters who can compete with the Chindians?

edit: and what effect would this have on UK house prices?

1) China cannot sell the treasuries, they would bankrupt themselves.

2) They are nowhere near creating an internal market.

3) The whole world is now connected in a symbiotic financial death-dance. Nobody gets out unscathed.

4) Chill.

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At least there will be some decent Indian cuisine on Mars for when we Brits finally get there, to re-establish The Great and Glorious Bountiful Intergalactic British Empire, and start charging the Indians rent for Mars, which they had previously enjoyed for free.

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There's a place for us

Somewhere a place for us

Peace and quiet and open air

Wait for us

Somewhere

There's a time for us

Some day a time for us

Time together

With time to spare

Time to learn

Time to care

Someday

Somewhere

We'll find a new way of living

We'll find a way of forgiving

Somewhere

There's a place for us

A time and place for us

Hold my hand

And we're halfway there

Hold my hand

And I'll take you there

Somehow

Someday

Somewhere

But it's not mars. Not yet anyway.

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Again, Loons were on about the Japanese leaving us Luddites behind in our caves 25+ years ago. You can't outrun deflation for ever.

Life will go on. Families with historical political and monetary influence will continue to control the population and we will eventually colonise Mars, when it suits this group to tell the population its a "national" imperative for the good of the nation!

If you're not one of the Elites - chill out and enjoy the controlled life you will lead (now for an average 6 more years) until you're 80ish and then let the state take your estate and your descendents can get on the hamster wheel again.

To become the Elite your options are simple:

Create something that is undeniably useful to the masses and become "new money"

Network your **** off to become a fixer for the Elites. Eventually creating your own mini army company of fixers whom you pay to do your bidding (but they are never quite sure where all the money comes from but they just get on with it to put food on the table.)

Be part of, or lead, any machine that distracts the majority so they can have a happy 70-75 years without thinking too hard.

Ahh...Liberty you've got to love it.

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I'll bet that was the prevalent view in 1969, yet 44 years later we still currently can't even land a man on the moon.

And are unlikely to do so ever again. The staircase of our catabolic collapse is leading downwards.

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I'll bet that was the prevalent view in 1969, yet 44 years later we still currently can't even land a man on the moon.

44 years later we can't even build houses with a cupboard to put the hoover in. I doubt the Martians have too much to worry about.

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I'll bet that was the prevalent view in 1969, yet 44 years later we still currently can't even land a man on the moon.

We never landed anyone on the moon in the first place.

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How do you claim land on planets or moons? Do you simply plonk your flag down? How is it divided? How are the boundaries decided etc. Used to be easier, just build an army and conquer...

It still is easy.

Build an army.

Have manufacturing that is capable of building a high-tech military.

Have an economy that is capable of paying for a high-tech military.

Have a population that is capable of being a disciplined military.

Have a leadership that is capable of sucessfully using a high-tech military.

Have enough support from others - dependent on your diplomatic, economic and military abilities. Success breeds success. Failure breeds a death spiral. Hegemony.

Avoid nuclear abilities of less powerful states. Do just enough to avoid or survive any retaliation.

Big debts and economies built on FIRe - finance, insurance and real Estate probably not a good basis.

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I'll bet that was the prevalent view in 1969, yet 44 years later we still currently can't even land a man on the moon.

Yes, I watched an old film the other day that I remember from my childhood: Quatermass and the Pit. Early in the film it mentions that we are only 20 years away from bases on the moon which made me chuckle. The film was made around the time of the (alleged for you conspiracy theorists) moon landing. I know the film is fiction but I think you're right that this view was prevalent then.

The idea of having bases on Mars to me is just unthinkable at the moment. While the technology might be possible with a concerted and colossal effort much larger than needed for the moon landings, I don't think that we have the will to do it or indeed the financial stability (to bring us back on topic). The powers that be have set the scene for financial Armageddon IMO - hardly a time when you can afford massive long running space programs.

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Yes, I watched an old film the other day that I remember from my childhood: Quatermass and the Pit. Early in the film it mentions that we are only 20 years away from bases on the moon which made me chuckle. The film was made around the time of the (alleged for you conspiracy theorists) moon landing. I know the film is fiction but I think you're right that this view was prevalent then.

The idea of having bases on Mars to me is just unthinkable at the moment. While the technology might be possible with a concerted and colossal effort much larger than needed for the moon landings, I don't think that we have the will to do it or indeed the financial stability (to bring us back on topic). The powers that be have set the scene for financial Armageddon IMO - hardly a time when you can afford massive long running space programs.

I suspect that Quatermass and the Pit was some time before the moon landings.

At the moment I'm re reading Footfall by Niven and Pournelle. It was published in the mid 80s so I suppose that the writing might have started in the 70s. Interestingly, in the part where the main action is, 1995, one of the characters is a green protester who is currently organising a protest against a pilot station to receive power beamed down from orbiting solar collectors.

A third of a century after that book was written there is very little word of any development in that direction, in a world that needs affordable power.

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A third of a century after that book was written there is very little word of any development in that direction, in a world that needs affordable power.

and that is why....

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I suspect that Quatermass and the Pit was some time before the moon landings.

At the moment I'm re reading Footfall by Niven and Pournelle. It was published in the mid 80s so I suppose that the writing might have started in the 70s. Interestingly, in the part where the main action is, 1995, one of the characters is a green protester who is currently organising a protest against a pilot station to receive power beamed down from orbiting solar collectors.

A third of a century after that book was written there is very little word of any development in that direction, in a world that needs affordable power.

Perhaps they played Sim City and decided it was a bad idea ;) I remember those things on there. They transmitted the energy via a microwave beam iirc which would occasionally go awry causing a beam of destruction to rain down on your city!

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Is there any economic benefit to "being on Mars"? I don't think so. Any resources you mine would cost too much to get back here. You aren't going to be growing any crops. With a three year minimum round-trip tourism is a non-starter. And anyone born on Mars is doomed to live there for life - the gravity back on Earth would cripple them.

The economic benefits of space are:

1) Zero-gee factories, only Earth orbit required.

2) Trade with aliens, first find your aliens.

3) Asteroid mining.

Going to Mars doesn't figure.

Asteroids have been radar analyzed and there are rocks up there which are practically solid gold/copper/platinum/whatever. Gravity will get them here, you just need to apply some delta-vee. Ideally you would bring these rocks into Earth orbit, carve chunks out of them and drop the chunks down onto people (who would become both flat and rich!)

There's a business opportunity here for countries with uninhabited deserts near the equator. Dropping a 100,000 ton lump of gold from orbit would make a hole a mile wide in the Earth and every building within 100 miles would be knocked down, so the mining companies would need to rent sections of the Sahara/Gobi/Outback/White Sands/Mojave.

This would be Big Engineering. There would be prizes for all: space jocks, vehicle builders, launch sites, drop zones, insurance, software, you name it - it would be like discovering oil all over again.

Edited by Nationalist

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Is there any economic benefit to "being on Mars"? I don't think so. Any resources you mine would cost too much to get back here. You aren't going to be growing any crops. With a three year minimum round-trip tourism is a non-starter. And anyone born on Mars is doomed to live there for life - the gravity back on Earth would cripple them.

The economic benefits of space are:

1) Zero-gee factories, only Earth orbit required.

2) Trade with aliens, first find your aliens.

3) Asteroid mining.

Going to Mars doesn't figure.

Asteroids have been radar analyzed and there are rocks up there which are practically solid gold/copper/platinum/whatever. Gravity will get them here, you just need to apply some delta-vee. Ideally you would bring these rocks into Earth orbit, carve chunks out of them and drop the chunks down onto people (who would become both flat and rich!)

There's a business opportunity here for countries with uninhabited deserts near the equator. Dropping a 100,000 ton lump of gold from orbit would make a hole a mile wide in the Earth and every building within 100 miles would be knocked down, so the mining companies would need to rent sections of the Sahara/Gobi/Outback/White Sands/Mojave.

This would be Big Engineering. There would be prizes for all: space jocks, vehicle builders, launch sites, drop zones, insurance, software, you name it - it would be like discovering oil all over again.

If you build a space elevator, a whole load of stuff starts being viable.

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