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Mortgage Express Getting Tough On Multiple Landlords

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Just having a trawl through Property tribes and found this thread.Can't remember if it's been posted before.My memory isn't so good.

Property tribes 2/9/13

'vivien danskin Offline Mute

Member

02-09-2013,07:17 PM

Hi Everyone

Just had a yearly review from MX

wasn't pleasant this time.

i have 9 propertys with them and never missed a payment so no worries there.

The new guy was originally there collections guy so has experience at scaring people.

i have a property coming to the end of its term in 4 years so he was asking me what my plans were and that they need all propertys off there books.

he said if no finance in place then they could come to some arrangement but in favor of them and not me meaning put all my mtge payments up on all 9 propertys.

He also said in 4 years if i was to either remtge this property or sell it then they are well within there rights to consolidate the other mtges i have with them so no way out there,can they do this as i have seperate contracts with them.

He also asked if i rented to any friends or family lucky enough i dont because if i did then i would be in breach of my contracts and did i ever buy a house with tenant already in situ lucky enough the answer was no again as again in breach of contract,he mentioned they had a guy with 90 props and he bought a house off the owner the owner then became the tenant and he made 30k from the deal,he was in breach of contract and lost all of his propertys,he had never missed any payments.

They seem to be getting very nasty i told him that he was scaring me and his answer was well thats what i'm here for to scare you as we want you off our books.

there also doing drive bys and if they see any propertys which look neglected there reposessing them.

They seem pretty desperate but not giving people a chance to remortgage the odd property as you can end up having to consolidate and if thats not possible then having to come to arrangement of upping your mtge payments on each property.

he said they dont care about us and they can do what they want as anyone who trys to take them to court fails miserably.

He asked me a few questions and gonna send his report through to me whatever that means.

i told him they are worse than the government and that the only way i would move them would be if they reduced my mtge amount,he said he's never heard anything so ridiculous and that will never happen

He wasn't amused when i told him i lived off my property money,he said i shouldn't be relying on this and that i was spposed to have another job.

Can they do this to landlords as there looking for any excuse to repossess to get there money back. '

'Kevin Wright Offline Mute

Senior Member

02-09-2013,11:04 PM

I have to say that brokers such as myself and Lisa Orme have been saying exactly this for at least the last two years but few people seemed interested in listening.

The prime fact to understand re MEX is that they have one sole reason to exist....to shut down their mortgage book in the shortest feasible time. He said exactly that, they need properties off their books.

I would say this guys comments are not so much bullying and harassment as an honest and truthful statement of the facts of life for MEX borrowers.

MEX will indeed look for any action that contravenes their rule book, as this gives them all the excuse they need to call in the loan; each loan they call in brings them a step closer to their sole objective, no mortgages left on their books. Finding reasons to call loans in early greatly accelerates the closure of the mortgage book, rather than waiting for each loan term to expire.

MEX will always look to take action against a whole portfolio, even if it only a single property that has broken their rules. This is entirely consistent with their prime objective.

Not missing a payment is no protection at all against MEX but missing a payment can be seized on by them as another reason to call in the loan.

If you are sensible Vivien, you will be formulating a strategy to move your portfolio away from MEX in the shortest possible time. The alternative will most likely be that you have no portfolio left. If this is your total portfolio that supports your lifestyle, it would also be prudent to start looking around for a job, as you may need one at relatively short notice.

One point to note, if MEX decide to move against you at any point, they will appoint an LPA Receiver to oversee the disposal of your portfolio. Their first act upon appointment will be to redirect the rental income from you to them; so you could lose your source of income almost in an instant.

The one saving grace in this Vivien is that you have had a very clear warning which you will ignore at your peril .'

'Kevin Wright Offline Mute

Senior Member

03-09-2013,09:06 AM

MEX borrowers are currently on a low variable rate in many cases, which makes it attractive to stay with them as the monthly positive cash flow can be very healthy. The danger is in becoming reliant on that cash flow when, as I described, it can be snatched away in a matter of days.

Those that can remortgage to a different lender would be somewhat reluctant to do so as the pay rate will not be as attractive as they currently get with MX.

I would suggest that MEX borrowers at least work out a contingency plan of how they would refinance their MEX properties should they suddenly be targeted by MEX. However the reality is that, in most cases, having bought at 85% and seen the market value of their properties drop below the purchase price paid, many MEX borrowers are not in a position to remortgage away from MEX without a substantial injection of cash to bring the portfolio down to the 75% or 80% levels that current lenders require.

You mention borrowers in negative equity Vanessa, I would guess that a fairly large proportion of MEX borrowers would be in that position, for the reasons stated above, drop in property values post purchase. In reality, without putting in a large lump of cash as described above, there is little they can do. Effectively they are sitting ducks waiting for MEX to turn their attention to them. The best they can do is conduct their accounts in a way that doesn't bring them to MEX's attention; keep up to date with all monthly payments; don't sell off any of the properties in isolation.

I think MEX target any borrowers who comes to their attention first, missed payment etc....then look for reasons as Vivien highlighted. I think it is fair to assume that any MEX loan will not be allowed to run its full term

What I have seen is the when MEX decide to take action against a borrower, LPA Receivers are appointed, the rent is commandeered by them in the interim and the properties sold off at whatever cost they can fetch. The borrower is left with no properties. '

'vivien danskin Offline Mute

Member

03-09-2013,06:04 PM

Hi Angela

when i bought them they were all 85 LTV and now they are just slightly in negative equity,i would say maybe just 3 of the 9 would have difficuilty selling.

My income is very good where i dont have to work but i do also have a cleaning business.

My rental is very good and he was impressed on how much rent i received,i have worked so hard looking after my business,i would hate it to taken away from me.

He said a few times to me keep telling yourself you only have 4 years left on one of your houses and also kept saying check your terms and conditions so thinking thats what there trying to get people on by asking alot of questions as he was writing my answers down,he was asking how i got started me thinking he was being friendly but really he was interviewing me,so a warning for anyone who gets a visit just be very careful in what you say as seemingly i'm spposed to have another job and not be relying on my income from propertys most likely in breach of my contract.

Its the consolidation bit i'm worried about as if i remortgage that house then they will want the other houses off there books and if not possible they can come to an agreement which is in favour of them ie other proertys at a higher rate if you dont agree thats when they can repossess.

he said they have got all new managers in as the old ones have gone now so maybe in january they were still mr nice guys.

they dont have to be nice to us as they not looking for customers they just want money back so by scrutinising the terms and conditions is going to be there only way of getting rid and also neglected propertys, there probably wanting people to miss a mtge payment so they can attack.

Surely they can't get away with this there has to be something done as if i lose my propertys i lose everything and there not leaving any option for us to just release one from them unless they consolidate or put the payments up right across the board .'

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'Kevin Wright Offline Mute

Senior Member

05-09-2013,07:36 AM

Another bank won't buy out MEX Vivien, they are owned by the government and are the 'bad part' of an old bank. The 'good part' has already been sold off; much like the good part of Northern Rock was sold off to Virgin Money. I would imagine all MEX staff are aware that their job in finite and when the last mortgages are cleared from the book the bank will cease to exist '

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'Paul Barrett Offline Mute

Longstanding Senior Member

05-09-2013,09:43 AM

I believe MX can do ANYTHING they like and are just tolerating MX LL like me providing they perceive that everything is in accordance with their obscure conditions; which they have tried to suss me out on; but I knew their angle

I believe we MX LL are all on a very; very sharp knife edge.

If MX so desired I reckon they could foreclose on me anytime they liked.

I remember reading on forum; maybe here that MX aren't even bothered if they only recover 50% of the mortgage value.

Something to do with the way govt accounting works out recovery stats.

I will NEVER be able to remortgage as long as I live and therefore I have to run these mortgages to full term

Many MX LL are in the same position

IR increase by only a few points would destroy lots of MX LL

MX know this which is why I am concerned about prices increasing; I would prefer they didn't; negative equity gives me some protection.

Cashflow is still just about there but there is nothing else!!!

We MXer's are NOT in a good place.

I face being made homeless if I don't keep it together.

ONLY existing IR are saving me along with many other LL and resi property owners and apparently lots of High St retailers are effectively bankrupt and only being sustained by low IR.

We still have a 'zombie' economy and all this talk of economy improvements is just so much hot air.

Not until debts value is reduced or inflated away will the economy truly recover.

This will take decades to achieve '

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Who are Mortgage Express then?

By their name I assumed that they are a firm, um, specialising in giving out mortgages. But reading the thread they sound as if they do not want to be in the mortgage business at all?

So who or what are they - some kind of mortgage arm or bad bank hived off from RBS or HBOS?

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"It is important to distinguish MEX from other lenders Ian. They behave as they do because they effectively went bust in the credit crunch; were bailed out by the government; are no longer open for lending and have a mandate to shut down the mortgage book in the shortest time possible, regardless of whether they recover the full amount of any loan and the impact on any borrower." = Kevin Wright wrote.

"Lenders that are still currently lending do not behave in the same way."

Interesting reading. Jeez its another world innit?

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So who or what are they - some kind of mortgage arm or bad bank hived off from RBS or HBOS?

They appear to be the 'bad bank' rump of Bradford and Bingley.

Also, is it just me that has a little smile on their face when I read threads like that one? :)

Edited by Fishbone Glover

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Who are Mortgage Express then?

By their name I assumed that they are a firm, um, specialising in giving out mortgages. But reading the thread they sound as if they do not want to be in the mortgage business at all?

So who or what are they - some kind of mortgage arm or bad bank hived off from RBS or HBOS?

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/bradford-bingley-plc-history/

http://www.businessballs.com/dtiresources/Mortgageexpress_TQM_case-study.pdf

UKAR. ;)

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They appear to be the 'bad bank' rump of Bradford and Bingley.

Also, is it just me that has a little smile on their face when I read threads like that one? :)

Thanks.

I tried to have a smile but then I was wondering why this ME is putting pressure on landlords now - with house prices supposedly rising?

Is it putting on pressure because:

1. It sees rising prices and is going to taking the opportunity to repo as many properties as possible in a rising market, flip them and make cash whilst still having the original mortgagees owing them loads of debt?

2. Because ME wants to truly be out of the mortgage market and no longer exist?

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Who are Mortgage Express then?

By their name I assumed that they are a firm, um, specialising in giving out mortgages. But reading the thread they sound as if they do not want to be in the mortgage business at all?

So who or what are they - some kind of mortgage arm or bad bank hived off from RBS or HBOS?

The (former) BTL arm of Bradford and Bingley and the bit that sank B&B. They were rolled into NRAM/UKAR as the government bad bank.

Edited by koala_bear

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The (former) BTL arm of Bradford and Bingley and the bit that sank B&B. They were rolled into NRAM/UKAR as the government bad bank.

Well, it has been a long time coming hasn't - between B&B going tits up and now.

The BTL part of B&B was huge IIRC so I wonder just how many LLs are still with 'B&B' as opposed to moving to find another lender? I suspect that most just carried on being with ME.

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Thanks.

I tried to have a smile but then I was wondering why this ME is putting pressure on landlords now - with house prices supposedly rising?

Is it putting on pressure because:

1. It sees rising prices and is going to taking the opportunity to repo as many properties as possible in a rising market, flip them and make cash whilst still having the original mortgagees owing them loads of debt?

2. Because ME wants to truly be out of the mortgage market and no longer exist?

2. The value of the properties is already written down by ~50%? so should still make a profit on repo at the moment. The longer it take to run down the portfolio the more it costs in admin cost as they aren't taking on new business.

HTB2 to give FTBs etc mortgages to buy repos off the Gov bad bank?

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Thanks.

I tried to have a smile but then I was wondering why this ME is putting pressure on landlords now - with house prices supposedly rising?

Is it putting on pressure because:

1. It sees rising prices and is going to taking the opportunity to repo as many properties as possible in a rising market, flip them and make cash whilst still having the original mortgagees owing them loads of debt?

2. Because ME wants to truly be out of the mortgage market and no longer exist?

It's number 2 - the plan is they are done in 7 years and this is the endgame.

http://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-or-mortgage-distress/43258/

I enjoyed reading this - schadenfreude for the day

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Thanks.

I tried to have a smile but then I was wondering why this ME is putting pressure on landlords now - with house prices supposedly rising?

Is it putting on pressure because:

1. It sees rising prices and is going to taking the opportunity to repo as many properties as possible in a rising market, flip them and make cash whilst still having the original mortgagees owing them loads of debt?

2. Because ME wants to truly be out of the mortgage market and no longer exist?

A dog eat dog scenario. Enjoy!

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HTB2 to give FTBs etc mortgages to buy repos off the Gov bad bank?

Hmm, interesting. So repo off the landlords to help speed up closing down the bad bank and take advantage of H2B2 to flog repoed properties off to buyers? That could be it.

I think we all would love to know just how many LLs ME has on its books and just how many of those LLs are now getting the above heavy treatment.

Edit: Ah.

http://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-or-mortgage-distress/43258/

There are reported to be in the region of 50,000 Mortgage Express buy to let borrowers.
Edited by The Masked Tulip

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It's number 2 - the plan is they are done in 7 years and this is the endgame.

http://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-or-mortgage-distress/43258/

The author seems to think that if LLs can hang on in there that they will get offered a sizeable write-off of their mortgage debt by ME just to get them off the books.

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Very interesting, thanks for posting.

A complete reliance on historically low interest rates, and the belief house prices only ever go up......what a way to carry on a business. :rolleyes:

Makes you wonder how many such vulnerable "businesses" we have in the UK now?

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Oh dear. Looks like some will happily refinance elsewhere for a cut in the outstanding debt:

If we knew what the desired recovery percentage was we could make suggestions. Let’s suppose the figure is 60%. Most buy to let landlords would happily refinance if their loans were discounted by far less than that. I’d certainly consider moving for a 25% to 30% write off of debt. Not every borrower would want or be in a position to go for such a deal but if only half did so, the remaining book, which I suspect would include a lot of toxic dent and low value assets due to negative equity, could still be shifted. They may only get 40 pence in the pound for these assets as a block sale but those extra 10% to 15% figures they would get from borrowers taking up their offers directly could well make up the balance.

How philanthropic to offer such terms!

If it's correct that UKAR are cranking it up on multiple LLs by searching out breaches of contracts and then exacting the full force of their rights on repossession and consolidation of debt secured on other properties owned by the same LL with proceeds, then it's heartening.

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Crikey, these BTL portfolios really are properly described as zombies. The cashflow is good from rentals, sufficient so that 9 properties is a good stand-alone income for Vivien net of interest and property upkeep. She cleverly does the cleaning as a side business which must be financially efficient too. But the whole portfolio is underwater from a capital point of view. So any change of status on any one property creates a repossession domino effect and the lot disappears with her into a bankruptcy black hole. The lender positively wants an excuse to repossess for bizarre reasons, and no other lender is interested because the LTV is too high. How can she sleep at night!

How many properties are going to go to repossesion with M-Ex I wonder. As price is set at the margin this potentially has a massive effect on prices. But until repossessions start to climb again this process isn't actually underway. Given this is essentially a government set agenda maybe the trickle becomes a flood post May-15.

It is more stressful for people like Vivien to be hanging on a thread like this than to close the operation once and for all. It isn't fair on them.

EP

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In related news, RBS announced that it plans to wind down the £38 billion of loans it has placed in the capital resolution division (internal bad bank) in just three years. Plenty of BTL loans in there I would expect. Interesting times for over-leveraged BTL'ers.

Q

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The author seems to think that if LLs can hang on in there that they will get offered a sizeable write-off of their mortgage debt by ME just to get them off the books.

Yeah I saw that. But from a govt point of view, burning the LLs then flogging to FTBs makes more electoral sense.

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Well, it has been a long time coming hasn't - between B&B going tits up and now.

The BTL part of B&B was huge IIRC so I wonder just how many LLs are still with 'B&B' as opposed to moving to find another lender? I suspect that most just carried on being with ME.

Loads probably at least 150,000 mortgages looking at UKAR's accounts. (Min 78k with multiple mortages) average 115k outstanding

ME also ended up with loans purchased by BnB from GMAC-RFC and Kensington

The company’s strategy is to provide market leading products in such segments as Let & Buy, Buy-to-Let, Negative Equity, 100% + and Self-Employed, delivered with a first class service

:wacko:

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Hmm, interesting. So repo off the landlords to help speed up closing down the bad bank and take advantage of H2B2 to flog repoed properties off to buyers? That could be it.

I think we all would love to know just how many LLs ME has on its books and just how many of those LLs are now getting the above heavy treatment.

Edit: Ah.

http://www.property1...distress/43258/

Guess which company has the Government contract to run HTB1/2 for them...:lol::lol::lol::lol:

UKAR! Oroboros in action

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2. The value of the properties is already written down by ~50%? so should still make a profit on repo at the moment. The longer it take to run down the portfolio the more it costs in admin cost as they aren't taking on new business.

HTB2 to give FTBs etc mortgages to buy repos off the Gov bad bank?

That's the way I see it pass the buck to the greater fool (the desperate FTB )

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The author seems to think that if LLs can hang on in there that they will get offered a sizeable write-off of their mortgage debt by ME just to get them off the books.

That's appears to be a high risk strategy, one missed payment and MX goes to work.. it bit like prodding a bear trap with a stick; great fun until it takes your arm off (I know it's a pathetic analogy)

I have to say the same thing has happend to us on two properties with Mortgage Express, we recieved the letter to say our properties had been sold. they took an £8,000 payment one day and then sent us the letters to say we owed them another £130,000 per property as this was the short fall.

we had been sold a mortgage for 220,000 on two properties. and they sold the houses for £80,000 approx and sent the bill. we signed nothing , the place had tennants and we had cleared arrears. they seemed to just make that decision over a a few weeks, we spoke to them often ( very often ) they called nearly every day, we felt being in touch was good as we could explain that a payment was going to them at a certain day , we made this payment and then as i say got the letter to say . . .er we now owed them £260,000.00.

This is on a linked article on Pottery 118 , or something like that ...

Potty 118 site

It appears that BTL is a little bit more risky than saving cash in an ISA... strange, this doesn't get mentioned on the mainstream media.

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