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Turned Out Nice Again

Wilko Johnson Rejects Chemotherapy

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24757808

perhaps in his position this was a no-brainer, with conventional mediciine offering no way back from inoperable pancreatic. i think the prognosis is 6-10 months depending on the type. he's gone 10 months now, and is feeling great, which i don't think he would be saying if he'd elected for chemo.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24757808

perhaps in his position this was a no-brainer, with conventional mediciine offering no way back from inoperable pancreatic. i think the prognosis is 6-10 months depending on the type. he's gone 10 months now, and is feeling great, which i don't think he would be saying if he'd elected for chemo.

My father in law is in exactly the same position with bowel cancer. Was given six to nine months well over a year ago now. He's not going to win any Irish jig competitions but he looks at least as well as he did at the time of the diagnosis.

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Be careful with this..

There are some genuinely awful cases out there of people who follow the 'don't take conventional treatment' approach and then die from treatable cancers, the blog below often has examples. Including some very nasty cases of parents withholding chemo from their kids, even though childhood cancers are often a lot more curable nowadays.

Having said that, there is sometimes a problem of the over-enthusiastic chemo therapist who - for understandable reasons - carries on with treatment even when the chances of success are basically zero. It may surprise people, but doctors don't generally like seeing their patients die.

And then there's the 'There's a 40% chance we'll put you into remission for X years, a 60% chance this won't work'.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/10/17/sharyn-ainscough-dies-tragically-because-she-followed-the-example-of-her-daughter-the-wellness-warrior/

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Be careful with this..

There are some genuinely awful cases out there of people who follow the 'don't take conventional treatment' approach and then die from treatable cancers, the blog below often has examples. Including some very nasty cases of parents withholding chemo from their kids, even though childhood cancers are often a lot more curable nowadays.

Quite so, a couple of whackos, masquerading as friends, crawled out of the woodwork when my missus was diagnosed. She was sorely tempted because on the face of it the alternatives were considerably more appealing than chemo. Thankfully, a saner friend working in the NHS was able to convince her otherwise.

Every adult obviously needs to make whatever choice is best for them. Have seen both successful cures via chemo and the effects of palliative chemo - personally I would tend towards skipping the palliative if a cure isn't likely. It would depend on the situation though - sometimes those extra few months are worth the suffering.

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Saw them at Mcr Apollo in '79.

One of the best live bands anywhere, ever.

Wilko Johnson Band. Salisbury Arts Centre 85 or 86.

Awesome display.

Wilko never did actually pull his amp over with that curly lead.

Norman Watt Roy in fine fettle too.

In my top 3 gigs easy.

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When, Barry Sheene decided to shun traditional treatments for his cancer I thought he was bonkers. Having recently witnessed a friend spend their final weeks in a hospital I was forced to conclude it would have been better never to have gone near the place and sat at home with the family.

I'II admit, I'm not predisposed to viewing the NHS as a double-plus good but, the whole experience was much worse than even I imagined and was like every tabloid NHS horror story in unremitting concentrated form. Depressing unclean wards with little or no security, indifferent nurses, an endless barrage of clipboard brandishing support staff and an unrelenting cacophony of background noise that sounded like someone had put a foreign language radio station up to volume 11 in a swimming baths.

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Be careful with this..

There are some genuinely awful cases out there of people who follow the 'don't take conventional treatment' approach and then die from treatable cancers, the blog below often has examples. Including some very nasty cases of parents withholding chemo from their kids, even though childhood cancers are often a lot more curable nowadays.

Having said that, there is sometimes a problem of the over-enthusiastic chemo therapist who - for understandable reasons - carries on with treatment even when the chances of success are basically zero. It may surprise people, but doctors don't generally like seeing their patients die.

And then there's the 'There's a 40% chance we'll put you into remission for X years, a 60% chance this won't work'.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/10/17/sharyn-ainscough-dies-tragically-because-she-followed-the-example-of-her-daughter-the-wellness-warrior/

+1

My mother was diagnosed with bowel cancer in 2008 and following surgery and chemo she is still doing ok despite the cancer returning twice. During this period she has managed a trip to Oz, Paris, and regularly takes her grandson with Dad on day trips to the seaside. Life is not ideal but it is still worth living.

In Mums case it appears that periodic chemo for 3-6 months pushes her into remission for about 2 years. The biggest challenge is getting her to stick to an anti cancer diet and stay away from the sweet processed crap she is so acustomed to.

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Yes.

I made a suggestion before on here..

Imagine that one option on receiving a terminal diagnosis - Cancer, Alzheimer's, advanced CHD, whatever - was Cryopreservation. Basically, you get sufficient time to say goodbye to friends and family, then put in the freezer until such time as technology can revive you, cure you, and put you in a new body. Cryopreservation works much better if you don't wait for clinical death first.

If it never happened, then it would simply have avoided the more hideous bits of dying - basically, it's euthanasia with at least a theoretical chance of resurrection.

From the POV of the state, you are cutting out the most expensive/least rewarding bits of the medical system. You won't be keeping the shells of people with dementia alive for years at huge expense. You won't be giving expensive therapies with little chance of success to terminal cancer patients. Stops the problem of welfare/medical systems being overwhelmed by the elderly..

For the individual, it would remove the risk of being kept half alive for a decade, quite possibly against your wishes and very much at your expense.

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Yes.

I made a suggestion before on here..

Imagine that one option on receiving a terminal diagnosis - Cancer, Alzheimer's, advanced CHD, whatever - was Cryopreservation. Basically, you get sufficient time to say goodbye to friends and family, then put in the freezer until such time as technology can revive you, cure you, and put you in a new body. Cryopreservation works much better if you don't wait for clinical death first.

If it never happened, then it would simply have avoided the more hideous bits of dying - basically, it's euthanasia with at least a theoretical chance of resurrection.

From the POV of the state, you are cutting out the most expensive/least rewarding bits of the medical system. You won't be keeping the shells of people with dementia alive for years at huge expense. You won't be giving expensive therapies with little chance of success to terminal cancer patients. Stops the problem of welfare/medical systems being overwhelmed by the elderly..

For the individual, it would remove the risk of being kept half alive for a decade, quite possibly against your wishes and very much at your expense.

Can you put away £10,000 then get frozen for 100,000 years and when you wake up compound interest has magically transformed that into £10,001 and you can now live off the interest?!

Or something like that?

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Can you put away £10,000 then get frozen for 100,000 years and when you wake up compound interest has magically transformed that into £10,001 and you can now live off the interest?!

Or something like that?

'The good news is, you've been revived in a new body, welcome to the future. Bad news is, you'll be working at Taco Bell for the next 10,000 years to pay your revival loan off..'

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According to wiki, Steve Jobs's cancer was perfectably treatable and curable, but he chose alternatives.

Funnily enough, I'm probably mildly hypochondriac about minor ailments, but the prospect of dying of cancer never really bothers me much.

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Yes.

I made a suggestion before on here..

Imagine that one option on receiving a terminal diagnosis - Cancer, Alzheimer's, advanced CHD, whatever - was Cryopreservation. Basically, you get sufficient time to say goodbye to friends and family, then put in the freezer until such time as technology can revive you, cure you, and put you in a new body. Cryopreservation works much better if you don't wait for clinical death first.

Unless you are an extremely gifted person what would motivate future generations to do this for you?

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+1

My mother was diagnosed with bowel cancer in 2008 and following surgery and chemo she is still doing ok despite the cancer returning twice. During this period she has managed a trip to Oz, Paris, and regularly takes her grandson with Dad on day trips to the seaside. Life is not ideal but it is still worth living.

In Mums case it appears that periodic chemo for 3-6 months pushes her into remission for about 2 years. The biggest challenge is getting her to stick to an anti cancer diet and stay away from the sweet processed crap she is so acustomed to.

Thank you for posting this. Earlier this year my mum was diagnosed with bowel cancer, and after radical surgery was told that it had spread. However after 3 months of chemo we found out last week that the secondary tumours are no longer visible on a CT scan (finally some good news) so she is continuing with the chemo pending an MRI scan due later this month

It's been very difficult for her but what has been most helpful has been (as far as possible) maintaining a positive attitutude whatever her physical state of health. I'm not talking about naiive blind optimism here but keeping things in the day and being grateful for what she has and can do. This has made it bearable for much of the time, and she still has time between seesions to do the things she enjoys the most.

None of us know how this will pan out for her but it as far as we are all concerned, the chemo is what she needs right now to give her the best chance of at least keeping this at bay for a while. Your story gives me hope and I wish you, your mother and your family the very best.

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Thank you for posting this. Earlier this year my mum was diagnosed with bowel cancer, and after radical surgery was told that it had spread. However after 3 months of chemo we found out last week that the secondary tumours are no longer visible on a CT scan (finally some good news) so she is continuing with the chemo pending an MRI scan due later this month

It's been very difficult for her but what has been most helpful has been (as far as possible) maintaining a positive attitutude whatever her physical state of health. I'm not talking about naiive blind optimism here but keeping things in the day and being grateful for what she has and can do. This has made it bearable for much of the time, and she still has time between seesions to do the things she enjoys the most.

None of us know how this will pan out for her but it as far as we are all concerned, the chemo is what she needs right now to give her the best chance of at least keeping this at bay for a while. Your story gives me hope and I wish you, your mother and your family the very best.

Cheers - likewise I wish you and your family the best. :)

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The decision about whether to have radio/chemo.etc is definitely a case by case thing.

My wife had cancer back in 2001, the initial prognosis was good and the oncologist gave her the possibility of a big open door to jump through if she did the treatment (surgery, radio and 8 weeks of chemo). It all worked fine, she lost her hair but it grew back (with no greys, oddly enough).

She's now had 12+ years without worries. She has seen a 6 year old son and 3 year old daughter grow up, start driving, first job, etc

Unfortunately, the big C is on her again (possibly unrelated to the original, which is very unlucky) and the oncologist is quite clear that there's no way out - treatment (which would involve radiotherapy to the head) would extend things 'possibly one or two months'. She does not want to spend extra months of her life being zapped and wasting away on a hospital bed (and I would do the same if it were me).

What's needed in all cases of cancer is a good oncologist who is not afraid to engage the patient. I suspect that many have to deal with people who are in denial/shock and will take any sort of treatment regime because it feels like progress.

I'm sorry to hear that. :(

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I don't know if anybody saw the documentary on the Feelgoods but it was very well done, whilst not a band whose records I would buy they were staples of pub rock which opened the door for punk.

Wilko came across as a real character. Very bright and opinionated but affable with it, people liked and respected him. He wore what he wanted, had his hair how he wanted. Took himself off to India, taught (it appears inspirationally) in a local school before walking out because the head spoke down to him, developed his own guitar style that inspired many at the time, and there was archive footage of him at a public meeting about planning in Canvey, before he had any fame, long hair but wearing a suit, asking in a civil way a pointed and intelligent question.

An original thinker. Worth watching when they inevitably repeat it in the near-future.

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The decision about whether to have radio/chemo.etc is definitely a case by case thing.

My wife had cancer back in 2001, the initial prognosis was good and the oncologist gave her the possibility of a big open door to jump through if she did the treatment (surgery, radio and 8 weeks of chemo). It all worked fine, she lost her hair but it grew back (with no greys, oddly enough).

She's now had 12+ years without worries. She has seen a 6 year old son and 3 year old daughter grow up, start driving, first job, etc

Unfortunately, the big C is on her again (possibly unrelated to the original, which is very unlucky) and the oncologist is quite clear that there's no way out - treatment (which would involve radiotherapy to the head) would extend things 'possibly one or two months'. She does not want to spend extra months of her life being zapped and wasting away on a hospital bed (and I would do the same if it were me).

What's needed in all cases of cancer is a good oncologist who is not afraid to engage the patient. I suspect that many have to deal with people who are in denial/shock and will take any sort of treatment regime because it feels like progress.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Your wife, you and your family have got a very tough time and some hard choices ahead of them.

My own wife died of cancer 7 years ago, when our son was 2 years old. She almost died before then, but chemotherapy was able to bring her back from the brink and give her another precious 8 months of relatively good quality life with her little lad. We were both grateful for that.

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I don't know if anybody saw the documentary on the Feelgoods but it was very well done, whilst not a band whose records I would buy they were staples of pub rock which opened the door for punk.

Wilko came across as a real character. Very bright and opinionated but affable with it, people liked and respected him. He wore what he wanted, had his hair how he wanted. Took himself off to India, taught (it appears inspirationally) in a local school before walking out because the head spoke down to him, developed his own guitar style that inspired many at the time, and there was archive footage of him at a public meeting about planning in Canvey, before he had any fame, long hair but wearing a suit, asking in a civil way a pointed and intelligent question.

An original thinker. Worth watching when they inevitably repeat it in the near-future.

Oil City Confidential? Brilliant documentary. The album Down by the Jetty is worth buying IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaGre2sa1_g

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Very difficult to talk about this dispassionately where people's loved ones are involved.

But if I were diagnosed with cancer, I would only accede to the scorched-earth paradigm of surgery/radio/chemo if it could be demonstrated that the lesion was encapsulated or of the less invasive type where there was a real chance of eliminating it completely.

In the opposite case, I think I would be pursuing evidenced based (or at least theoretically logical) metabolic approaches. The problem is where to obtain reliable objective information on alternatives.

I really think we could do with a comprehensive patient database documenting such strategies with follow-ups as an adjunct to the existing pharmaceutical clinical trials process.

A case in point might be the crowd sourced research surrounding the drug DCA.

Its powerful anticancer properties were documented in animals by researchers at the university of Alberta Canada in I think 2007. Yet despite its established low toxicity (it is already prescribed for other conditions), it is still not officially available to cancer patients as a treatment in 2013. Unsatisfied with this, and in the face of stern opposition from the science establishment, patients have sourced the drug themselves and are developing their own treatment protocols by trial and error. Eg.

http://www.thedcasite.com

I think this approach could be broadened out to encompass all promising alternative treatments.

If something worked then that would very soon become obvious, in the way, for instance, that the efficacy of low carb diets for weight loss has been established in the public domain despite running counter to nutritional science orthodoxy.

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The decision about whether to have radio/chemo.etc is definitely a case by case thing.

My wife had cancer back in 2001, the initial prognosis was good and the oncologist gave her the possibility of a big open door to jump through if she did the treatment (surgery, radio and 8 weeks of chemo). It all worked fine, she lost her hair but it grew back (with no greys, oddly enough).

She's now had 12+ years without worries. She has seen a 6 year old son and 3 year old daughter grow up, start driving, first job, etc

Unfortunately, the big C is on her again (possibly unrelated to the original, which is very unlucky) and the oncologist is quite clear that there's no way out - treatment (which would involve radiotherapy to the head) would extend things 'possibly one or two months'. She does not want to spend extra months of her life being zapped and wasting away on a hospital bed (and I would do the same if it were me).

What's needed in all cases of cancer is a good oncologist who is not afraid to engage the patient. I suspect that many have to deal with people who are in denial/shock and will take any sort of treatment regime because it feels like progress.

Sorry for your news, buckers. My missus had cancer back in 2003 - had surgery and chemo. Oddly enough her hair also has very few grays and goes curly in humid weather. The permanent side effects aren't too pleasant - severe tinitus and periodic exhaustion being the worst. But better than the alternative.

Sounds like you've been lucky with your oncologist in both cases. Ours chose to reveal the bad news a little bit at a time when forced to (ie perfectly OK to continue working throughout the chemo - when the missus was completed floored by it on occasion, no side effects etc). Honesty is all that some of us want.

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