Uk Child Poverty Survey Exposes 'grinding Reality' Of Cold, Damp Homes

[Si1]

Yes lets skirt the issue by claiming all of these people who live in Victorian era BTL squalor deserve all they get because they have an ipad!?!

I thought you were all being ironic boomers, but sadly it appears not. I'm sure going without a second hand PS3 will make all the difference in affording that extra £200 a month rent.....

Didn't know brighthouse did 2nd hand PS3s ...

[Si1]

Not so long ago we were classed as one of the richest nations on the planet- now we debate if it's possible for some people to both watch TV and be warm at the same time.

It seems a bit odd.

Actually nobody said that

Really, that wasn't said

Not said

See?

[workingpoor]

Yep, and amongst those on benefits there is the polarisation of those who the Daily Mail seems to be able to sniff out, the immigrants living in a South Kensington Mansion worth £x million, and those who are largely ignored, living hopelessly desperate lives of humiliating, grinding poverty.

I sometimes wonder whether there isn't a deliberate tampering with the system in order that it creates absurd results in order that certain sections of the press can seize these anomalous instances and create a false impression of those on benefits. I say this, because I know someone who is a friend of a friend who is entitled to disability vehicle allowance because he has three disabled children. (I'm not sure what these disabilities are, and that is a separate debate.) Apparently you get a sum per child, and so this person has ordered a brand new Volvo V70 business edition with sat nav, lane departure, adaptive braking etc. and these cars are insured, taxed and serviced.

I suggested that this could not be right be right, it was probably an exaggeration, you probably get a lump sum to buy a vehicle and then maybe a sliding scale for the rest of the children, but apparently it is true. (this friend of a friend was originally considering a Q5 or Q3 or something.) My friend is not usually a jealous person and supports the idea of a welfare state, but thinks that a basic vehicle would suffice, and it is just wasteful to throw this sort of money about. He is so bothered by this that he was calculating what that car would cost to own. To get it on a 20k mile a year lease = £550 per month with a £5.5k deposit. (£5.5k deposit = £1.8k per year for three years). Lets say insurance £1000, tax £400, servicing £400? He reckons it's worth £10k a year, which would be £14k worth of taxed income.

I imagine there is something underhanded going on with lobbyists for these lease companies, but still surely this cannot be normal? I suggested my theory to him that it was the old Malcolm X idea of getting you to side with the oppressors against the oppressed, by deliberately causing absurd results as this is not my understanding of the usual position of people on benefits. Someone on this site recently posted half a dozen links to people who had been mistreated by the ATOS administered system (including one who had set himself on fire).

This is all true but here's the rub: if you don't take the brand new car under the notability scheme you can opt to receive ma weekly cash payment instead to run your own second hand car + free road tax and free road toll pass and free parking anywhere you like as long as not causing obstruction.

[markyh]

Seems like nothing much changes then.

I grew up in a cold damp council house, no central heating. In winter ice forming on the inside of the window sills and the all too often power cuts even denied us use of the 2 bar electric heater. I remember loads of us 'poor people' queing up at a local government building to be issued with a winter coat - either a pea grea parker or 5h1t brown duffle coat.

That feeling (almost a fear) of been freezing cold has never left me and in some ways neither has the feeling of being 2nd class and poor. We were marked by the coat (and itchy woollen trousers).

I can't judge too harshly poor people having a few nice things like a decent T.V or an XBox because what else is there?

Hmmm. I remember all this and i'm only 44! Just born into the late Sixties. My Mum, Dad Sister and I shared a cold 2 bed 17th century terraced house. South East expensive commuter town now in an area called the "Tring Triangle". But back then we had two rooms downstairs and up., each with an open fireplace, no plaster just exposed brickwork. Exposed wooden floors, few rugs but not carpet. Outside toilet at the end of the garden, no bathroom, tin bath by the fire. Winter was ice on the inside of sash windows, thick PJ's, several blankets, Hot water bottles etc. Black and white TV.

I never felt poor though, always had warm clothes, hot food and toys to play with and lots of other kids to play with in the street.

Any kid living like this now is called impoverished but why?

M

[Dorkins]

Hmmm. I remember all this and i'm only 44! Just born into the late Sixties. My Mum, Dad Sister and I shared a cold 2 bed 17th century terraced house. South East expensive commuter town now in an area called the "Tring Triangle". But back then we had two rooms downstairs and up., each with an open fireplace, no plaster just exposed brickwork. Exposed wooden floors, few rugs but not carpet. Outside toilet at the end of the garden, no bathroom, tin bath by the fire. Winter was ice on the inside of sash windows, thick PJ's, several blankets, Hot water bottles etc. Black and white TV.

I never felt poor though, always had warm clothes, hot food and toys to play with and lots of other kids to play with in the street.

Any kid living like this now is called impoverished but why?

It's fine to have a certain lifestyle when everybody around you does too as things will be set up to run that way. The shops will sell warm clothes, guests will expect houses to be fairly cold inside during the winter and will be accustomed to these temperatures, delivery of solid fuel to burn on the fire will be normal and easy to arrange etc. Now the shops mainly sell very thin clothes designed to be worn in centrally heated houses and coal deliveries are a thing of the past, so trying to live a 1960s lifestyle in 2013 will be harder and more expensive than it was in the 1960s.

[Hail the Tripod]

I bought an iphone to take my mind off the cold.

Good move, there are plenty of fireplace apps that will help with the cold (psychologically).

[hellsbells]

coal deliveries are a thing of the past

Not round here - weekly or fortnightly and a choice of 3 or 4 merchants. Our guy's lorry is always fully loaded delivering 3 or 4 days a week.

[Dorkins]

Not round here - weekly or fortnightly and a choice of 3 or 4 merchants. Our guy's lorry is always fully loaded delivering 3 or 4 days a week.

Interesting. Where's here?

[hellsbells]

Interesting. Where's here?

Wilts/Dorset border. No mains gas for miles, most people on:

1.Oil + open fire or stove

2. Electric + open fire or stove

3. Recent stuff has heat recovery/ solar/ wood pellet boiler etc.

We run all heat and hot water off multifuel stove and solar with an immersion heater as last resort back up for very grey days when it's too warm to bother with the stove. We have our own wood supply and use anthracite to boost in the coldest couple of months when we want to keep the stove in all night and still fire up the central heating in the morning.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I bought an iphone to take my mind off the cold.

Silly, you'd get more actual warmth from a Nexus 4.

Grandad.

[bomberbrown]

I think this article says more about our private sector rental sector than it does about 'child poverty'.

[winkie]

I bought an iphone to take my mind off the cold.

....you can get special warm gloves with active fingers that can help.

[fluffy666]

Actually nobody said that

Really, that wasn't said

Not said

See?

7th by total GDP, ~21st by GDP per capita.

But the point is, take away our insane land costs and it would be easily affordable for the country to build decent houses for everyone. Much cheaper than handing over a fortune in housing benefit to private landlords..

[winkie]

7th by total GDP, ~21st by GDP per capita.

But the point is, take away our insane land costs and it would be easily affordable for the country to build decent houses for everyone. Much cheaper than handing over a fortune in housing benefit to private landlords..

so why don't they do it?.......is it because landlords use their own money/debt....service that debt and plough tax payers money back into the economy as taxed spending money, not dissimilar to a public sector worker....who knows.

[iamnumerate]

Actually nobody said that

Really, that wasn't said

Not said

See?

+1

[iamnumerate]

Yep, and amongst those on benefits there is the polarisation of those who the Daily Mail seems to be able to sniff out, the immigrants living in a South Kensington Mansion worth £x million, and those who are largely ignored, living hopelessly desperate lives of humiliating, grinding poverty.

I sometimes wonder whether there isn't a deliberate tampering with the system in order that it creates absurd results in order that certain sections of the press can seize these anomalous instances and create a false impression of those on benefits.

My attitude to the benefit system doesn't come from the Daily Mail, it comes from the day in 1998 when I knew someone who got off a plane from Spain and because she was a single mum got accomodation that I couldn't afford - and I was earning £20k at the time! Since then I have met more and more people like her.

I also know someone who is very good at martial arts who is on disability benefit.

Edited October 30, 2013 by iamnumerate

[PopGun]

7th by total GDP, ~21st by GDP per capita.

But the point is, take away our insane land costs and it would be easily affordable for the country to build decent houses for everyone. Much cheaper than handing over a fortune in housing benefit to private landlords..

+100

I presume the point was sadly missed.

[@contradevian]

Most homes built before about 1970 will suffer from condensation problems, often exacerbated by the introduction of double glazing. You will get some tenants that will not ventilate the property and careless cooking and drying clothes can be causal. Being unable to properly heat the house is a more understandable excuse with the fuel companies freezing pensioners as opposed to prices. Without demolishing old council stock it may be difficult to avoid mould if tenants do not take it upon themselves to air houses.

Yes I guess I live in perhaps one of the very worst properties. A 60's 'system built' council flat. However its not that bad and its bad design elements compensated for with GCH and quality double glazing. I hardly need the heating on as its South facing, and overlooking the Southern Pennines the weather can be bleak, damp and windy.

The only issue really is a slightly mouldy bathroom, despite me keeping the vents and window open, so I have to set to once or twice a month with special Dettol/mould/bleach spray (bleach alone won't kill the spores). Its gradually getting better.

Don't have an X-Box though another poster has offered to sell me a s/h one without a hard drive, then I can really 'live the dream.'

[Dorkins]

The only issue really is a slightly mouldy bathroom, despite me keeping the vents and window open, so I have to set to once or twice a month with special Dettol/mould/bleach spray (bleach alone won't kill the spores). Its gradually getting better.

Get yourself a decent dehumidifier, we've used one of these in our damp-prone Victorian basement flat for the last couple of years and it has made a huge difference:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-148110002-DEM10-Compact-Dehumidifier/dp/B000BP81DW

[iamnumerate]

Yes I guess I live in perhaps one of the very worst properties. A 60's 'system built' council flat. However its not that bad and its bad design elements compensated for with GCH and quality double glazing. I hardly need the heating on as its South facing, and overlooking the Southern Pennines the weather can be bleak, damp and windy.

The only issue really is a slightly mouldy bathroom, despite me keeping the vents and window open, so I have to set to once or twice a month with special Dettol/mould/bleach spray (bleach alone won't kill the spores). Its gradually getting better.

Don't have an X-Box though another poster has offered to sell me a s/h one without a hard drive, then I can really 'live the dream.'

As someone who used to live in a council flat and now lives in Victorian house built for the poor - I really don't understand why people want the Goverment to build more homes. Build more homes yes but the Government doesn't have a great track record in doing so.

[@contradevian]

As someone who used to live in a council flat and now lives in Victorian house built for the poor - I really don't understand why people want the Goverment to build more homes. Build more homes yes but the Government doesn't have a great track record in doing so.

I've lived in both and I think I prefer the 60's Council flat. My first Victorian terrace was really only made liveable with modern day stuff like gch and loft insulation and new windows (and an inside toilet).

On the other side of town is a Council Estate (built before the war I think) and the sizes of the houses, gardens and open spaces puts the new builds that they have tried to cram in on odd plots to shame. Even the post war housing was cheapened (concrete construction rather than brick and less space etc)

They would build 3/4 times the number of houses on the same space now, so I don't entirely agree. Social housing started to markedly decline quality rom the around the late 60's onwards, the nadir being 70's system building which in some cases collapsed. The small block I'm in was empty for ages for a while until all the asbestos could be ripped out of it. Pretty much in all cases the problems were caused by the private contractors employed which for some reason had to be put right at public expense.

Edited October 30, 2013 by aSecureTenant

[Si1]

I've lived in both and I think I prefer the 60's Council flat. My first Victorian terrace was really only made liveable with modern day stuff like gch and loft insulation and new windows (and an inside toilet).

On the other side of town is a Council Estate (built before the war I think) and the sizes of the houses, gardens and open spaces puts the new builds that they have tried to cram in on odd plots to shame. Even the post war housing was cheapened (concrete construction rather than brick and less space etc)

They would build 3/4 times the number of houses on the same space now, so I don't entirely agree. Social housing started to markedly decline quality rom the around the late 60's onwards, the nadir being 70's system building which in some cases collapsed. The small block I'm in was empty for ages for a while until all the asbestos could be ripped out of it. Pretty much in all cases the problems were caused by the private contractors employed which for some reason had to be put right at public expense.

Two really good counter posts

[Si1]

I live in what I think is an immediate post war council house, a small semi, now private rented.

It seems to be superb, as do many former council properties in Leeds from that era

There does seem to be, at least here, some substance to the opinion that some council housing was really excellent

Mind you, depending on who built it, some of the 19th c private terraces in Yorkshire are superb too, especially, say, the ones sir Titus salt built