Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
anonguest

Do Listed Buildings Sell At A Premium?

Recommended Posts

I am presuming that, possibly, at least some other European countries have similar sorts of mechanisms in place for designating some old and historically interesting residential properties as protected in varying ways ('listed' as we call them)? Though perhaps not to quite the same extent as we do here?

Perhaps I am imagining it, but is it factually correct that on the whole listed building sell at a premium to nearby comparable sized/style properties in the same area? Does the same phenomena occur in other countries too?

If so then my question is WHY?! When logic would dictate that the added financial burden of owning such a place should result in a discount on the price when it is sold.

It is one of those peculiar British traits that I have again just recently had difficulty trying to explain to visiting foreigners unfamilar with our 'ways'.

Edited by anonguest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am presuming that, possibly, at least some other European countries have similar sorts of mechanisms in place for designating some old and historically interesting residential properties as protected in varying ways ('listed' as we call them)? Though perhaps not to quite the same extent as we do here?

Perhaps I am imagining it, but is it factually correct that on the whole listed building sell at a premium to nearby comparable sized/style properties in the same area? Does the same phenomena occur in other countries too?

If so then my question is WHY?! When logic would dictate that the added financial burden of owning such a place should result in a discount on the price when it is sold.

It is one of those peculiar British traits that I have again just recently had difficulty trying to explain to visiting foreigners unfamilar with our 'ways'.

If there is a premium it is surely because the house is more attractive/desirable to many people (OK not to everybody) and there will be far fewer such properties available. Some people will always prefer a house with character and history to mass built newer properties.

OTOH some people will be put off because of the restrictions on what they can do to it, more expensive materials, lengthy planning consultation, etc.

Don't know what happens elsewhere but would guess that in many countries there is some sort of mechanism for preventing people from tearing down or otherwise vandalising historic properties. Before we had any sort of listing procedure here anyone could tear down whatever they liked, and very often did, and not that long ago, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am presuming that, possibly, at least some other European countries have similar sorts of mechanisms in place for designating some old and historically interesting residential properties as protected in varying ways ('listed' as we call them)? Though perhaps not to quite the same extent as we do here?

Perhaps I am imagining it, but is it factually correct that on the whole listed building sell at a premium to nearby comparable sized/style properties in the same area? Does the same phenomena occur in other countries too?

If so then my question is WHY?! When logic would dictate that the added financial burden of owning such a place should result in a discount on the price when it is sold.

It is one of those peculiar British traits that I have again just recently had difficulty trying to explain to visiting foreigners unfamilar with our 'ways'.

If a modern monstrosity gets listed & that does happen, then I think it's negative especially in London. It's the land that holds value, not an old building, knocking down & rebuilding is often substantially cheaper then renovating to a high standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there is a premium it is surely because the house is more attractive/desirable to many people (OK not to everybody) and there will be far fewer such properties available. Some people will always prefer a house with character and history to mass built newer properties.

OTOH some people will be put off because of the restrictions on what they can do to it, more expensive materials, lengthy planning consultation, etc.

Don't know what happens elsewhere but would guess that in many countries there is some sort of mechanism for preventing people from tearing down or otherwise vandalising historic properties. Before we had any sort of listing procedure here anyone could tear down whatever they liked, and very often did, and not that long ago, either.

Bâtiments classés in France. For example the Chalet Lange in Courchevel

invlangg.jpg

designed by Denis Pradelle.

Although it has been a bit of a battle royale over this building. Original designated in 2004 it was delisted then relisted at the 11th hour by Frederic Mitterand as the bullozers were revving up their engines. Since then it has been taken down and stuck in a hangar and a Twee tyrolian chalet built in its place for an oligarch. You can wonder what the value of taking a building out of its original context is.

lang.jpg?itok=Sux1GbX_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am presuming that, possibly, at least some other European countries have similar sorts of mechanisms in place for designating some old and historically interesting residential properties as protected in varying ways ('listed' as we call them)? Though perhaps not to quite the same extent as we do here?

Perhaps I am imagining it, but is it factually correct that on the whole listed building sell at a premium to nearby comparable sized/style properties in the same area? Does the same phenomena occur in other countries too?

If so then my question is WHY?! When logic would dictate that the added financial burden of owning such a place should result in a discount on the price when it is sold.

It is one of those peculiar British traits that I have again just recently had difficulty trying to explain to visiting foreigners unfamilar with our 'ways'.

Similar reason why a classic car tends to be more valuable than an equivalent sized / style recent model. Rarity value, build quality, "character", etc. Also consider a dining table, why is a genuine Georgian table more expensive than the same size one from Ikea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bd1ddf98-1500-42b6-9afa-7379.jpg

The Firestone building was in the process of being listed in 1980 when it was demolished during a bank holiday weekend..

As a result of this, and to avoid a repeat occurrence, the then Environment Secretary, Michael Heseltine, ordered a resurvey of possible buildings for listing, which resulted in many more buildings being listed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in a listed building (black and white cottage) that is Grade 2 - it is a pain if you want to 'gut it and put your own stamp on it' :o

but someone has already decreed that historic dwellings should be preserved (with minor updating allowed) which is a minor irritant far outweighed by the joy of living in a place with 'character'.

so no - there is no premium in the price - in fact there are some people (the own stamp brigade) who would not consider a listed dwelling so one's buyers are reduced.

I do sometimes question the value of automatic listing of anything 'old' enough when there should perhaps be a grade 3 listing - try not to spoil it. :D

Interestingly I have previously lived in a 250 year old stone built cottage in Shropshire - not listed

a 1930s architect designed house in Shropshire - not listed (crittall bay windows notwithstanding)

but here in Herefordshire I think they just 'listed everything more than 200 years old'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in a listed building (black and white cottage) that is Grade 2 - it is a pain if you want to 'gut it and put your own stamp on it' :o

That prompts another question I have always asked privately......

IF you did 'gut it' strictly internally (or indeed just make any meaningful modernisation updates), and did it carefully and discreetly, then how the f**k would anyone concerned ever know? OR....does a building being listed also grant TPTB having legal powers of entry to periodically check it?

Indeed even when selling it on many years later you could always claim that its internal aspects were already like that prior to it being listed?

Edited by anonguest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bd1ddf98-1500-42b6-9afa-7379.jpg

As a result of this, and to avoid a repeat occurrence, the then Environment Secretary, Michael Heseltine, ordered a resurvey of possible buildings for listing, which resulted in many more buildings being listed.

Typical petulant vindictiveness of TPTB!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That prompts another question I have always asked privately......

IF you did 'gut it' strictly internally (or indeed just make any meaningful modernisation updates), and did it carefully and discreetly, then how the f**k would anyone concerned ever know? OR....does a building being listed also grant TPTB having legal powers of entry to periodically check it?

Often the interior features are listed too and subject to periodic inspection by a local council jobsworth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Often the interior features are listed too and subject to periodic inspection by a local council jobsworth.

So they genuinely have 'power of entry'? or can one feign absence indefinitely whenever a visit is requested?

when a building is about to be listed, and presumably the existing owner has no say in the matter, they presumably get some degree of 'warning' that it is about to become listed from such and such date? or do they just get a letter in the post one day telling them of this wondrous news!?

Furthermore, if a building is chosen by the great and the good to be listed then prior to being listed no one has right of entry - and the owner can make whatever changes they desire? The documenting of the interior state only takes place after the listing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So they genuinely have 'power of entry'? or can one feign absence indefinitely whenever a visit is requested? presumably said Nazis would have to show reasonable cause to a court or such like to claim that absence is being repeatedly claimed to evade them?

when a building is about to be listed, and presumably the existing owner has no say in the matter, they presumably get some degree of 'warning' that it is about to become listed from such and such date? or do they just get a letter in the post one day telling them of this wondrous news!?

Furthermore, if a building is chosen by the great and the good to be listed then prior to being listed no one has right of entry - and the owner can make whatever changes they desire? The documenting of the interior state only takes place after the listing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So they genuinely have 'power of entry'? or can one feign absence indefinitely whenever a visit is requested?

when a building is about to be listed, and presumably the existing owner has no say in the matter, they presumably get some degree of 'warning' that it is about to become listed from such and such date? or do they just get a letter in the post one day telling them of this wondrous news!?

Furthermore, if a building is chosen by the great and the good to be listed then prior to being listed no one has right of entry - and the owner can make whatever changes they desire? The documenting of the interior state only takes place after the listing?

have NEVER been inspected.

the date of listing determines what is there to be listed (some of which may be botched up 70s style renovations depending on what state the house was in at the time). it is a bit of a nonsense really as my humble cottage is not at all on the same level as the firestone building and given that it is down a 300 yard track - no-one sees it - the ptb come into it if you want to extend, replace windows etc when you have to get 'listed building consent' but no-one cares what colour you paint the walls. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

have NEVER been inspected.

the date of listing determines what is there to be listed (some of which may be botched up 70s style renovations depending on what state the house was in at the time). it is a bit of a nonsense really as my humble cottage is not at all on the same level as the firestone building and given that it is down a 300 yard track - no-one sees it - the ptb come into it if you want to extend, replace windows etc when you have to get 'listed building consent' but no-one cares what colour you paint the walls. :)

Doesn't answer the question re: power of entry, at times other than when you deliberately seek their permission to make changes to a listed property.

The whole issue of what state exactly a proposed listed building is in is an interesting one.

I mean...When whichever busybody involved the whole listing nonsense considers an old house in some village somewhere for the very first time, with a view to having it listed, how the hell do they know whether or not the interior of the house has or has not already been fully modernised - and thus only the outside retains its historic appearance.

In other words the owner would have to be stupid enough to willingly invite in the person from English Heritage or whichever body it is responsible for proposing listing buildings, so that they could confirm for themselves what state the internals are in.

Personally, IF someone asked to inspect, I'd tell them to go to hell.

Surely the whole point of listing buildings is to preserve them in as much of their original entirety as possible. There seems, to me, little point in listing a building IF it has largely already lost the bulk of its original historic features.

IF one want to preserve the outward visual historic appearance of a row of old cottages in some middle England village then all well and good slapping local planning restrictions on the changes to external appearances - but why force private residents to live with 18th century habitation standards (e.g internal fixtures and fittings, lack of modern internal roof materials, etc).

Edited by anonguest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are different grades of listing.

I grew up in a grade II* listed house (1720s) from the age of 10 until I left home

(this was due to the death of my grandfather and our family taking my gran in to live with us (which she did for 15+ years) and so needing a larger house in the same area, and stretching finances to make that happen.

The listing II* essentially meant exterior only listing (including windows)

but inside you could do what you liked, and no one would come to inspect because the interior was not listed.

Interestingly, when my parents had to redo the guttering after we moved in, they of course were not allowed to replace with plastic (of course) BUT there was a grant available (perhaps English Heritage/National Trust or some other organisation) which covered the difference in cost between the plastic pipes and the cast iron ones (a not inconsiderable difference in price). I think the same might have been true for the slate roof tiles (they purchased the house in a state of significant disrepair and restored it as best they could.

Personally I loved growing up there, and a lot of my friends (apart from the guy whose dad had converted a chapel!) preferred visiting my house, to playing at theirs because the house was "cool" and not just a little soulless box on a faceless estate. It had (has) a decent sized garden, really good sized rooms and proportions and some soul to it. I felt at the time that we were very very fortunate to live there (having not been born into anything like a monied family) despite what some people might consider to be the many drawbacks.

Those same friends who enjoyed playing in the trees and the house didn't have to sleep there in the winter and put up with the terrible drafts and impossibly expensive heating (I used to put clothes in the bathroom which had its own heating system, so that I could be warm in the mornings before school, which sounds ridiculous as it was the 80s and there was central heating and this wasn't the 19th century, but I still preferred it to the overly hot boxes my friends lived in.

My parents still live there and it has all that nostalgia value, but of course if I'd grown up in a modern house I would associate that with nostalgia and so I might feel differently about period properties because they wouldn't hold such personal memories.

Of course this has totally ruined any chance I have of enjoying living in a modern place (as I am likely to have to do if I ever buy) because my parents were fortunate/unfortunate to have a series of circumstances in the early 90s which conspired to put us in that house in the first place (rates, family tragedy, offers of work, a house that came up at the right time etc) and the house they are in would be about 4 times the price they paid (houses around there regularly sell for that sort of figure).

There's no way I could ever dream of living in a house like that. But when I do view more modern houses I'm always struck by how ridiculously small the rooms are (you can barely get around the double bed) and the laughable descriptions of "good sized rooms and a good garden" when they are noting of the sort.

Apologies for the rambling, just wanted to give the perspective of someone who enjoyed an old house when he had the chance to live in one).

Plus I have work to do and this is a good strategy for not doing it.

Edited by Bear Necessities

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We spent about 20 years living in a 12th Century fortification on the Welsh Borders. It was certainly a privilege and a pleasure (and remarkably good economics - being a fort, the walls were 12 ft thick). We basically restored it from scratch - i.e. ripped out some of the bits that had accumulated over the last 800 years. I have no idea of the overall costs of owning such a property against an unlisted one, but I'd give a hell of a lot to live there again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We spent about 20 years living in a 12th Century fortification on the Welsh Borders. It was certainly a privilege and a pleasure (and remarkably good economics - being a fort, the walls were 12 ft thick). We basically restored it from scratch - i.e. ripped out some of the bits that had accumulated over the last 800 years. I have no idea of the overall costs of owning such a property against an unlisted one, but I'd give a hell of a lot to live there again.

Maybe you would like to borrow my home made baliista, and trebuchet? :blink:

Edited by MrPin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you would like to borrow my home made baliista, and trebuchet? :blink:

Heh - well, like I said, it had gone through a lot of changes over the years. This is it:

536820_586643801353555_461710230_n.jpg

When we bought it, there was no electricity or water, the original staircase (which ran up through one of the walls) had been filled in and the rooms had been divided up with plaster-board, and the top floor abandoned. We were lucky enough that the main renovation took place during the summer of '76, and we camped in the garden.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh - well, like I said, it had gone through a lot of changes over the years. This is it:

When we bought it, there was no electricity or water, the original staircase (which ran up through one of the walls) had been filled in and the rooms had been divided up with plaster-board, and the top floor abandoned. We were lucky enough that the main renovation took place during the summer of '76, and we camped in the garden.

Awesome building. Generally I stop reading when "lsited" crops up in a property description but sometimes it would be so worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   206 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.