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Landlord in trouble.

He's a teacher, married with one kid. Bought a flat on an OO mortgage, but found he couldn't afford the payments. But surely interest rates are through the floor? Not always - some borrowers struck bad bargains (even after the BoE wet its pants) and rates of 8-11% are not unusual. Landlord decided to move his family out and rent a smaller flat, expecting a profit from the rent on his owned flat. No mention of tax payable on rental income.

He rented on AST basis to a single mum, a nutter. She signed the rental agreement through a letting agent, and there was a signature at the bottom for a guarantor, unwitnessed. Rent was £750 per month, some of it paid by housing benefit, but arrears grew to £3k over a year. Landlord had sympathy because a kid was involved, but ended up suing the tenant and the guarantor.

In court the tenant turned up and said, Yeah - I owe the money. Gambling problem etc.

The guarantor turned up and said, WTF! I'm just some random person whose signature was forged on the agreement - get me out of here.

The landlord accepted what the guarantor said, so the guarantor was removed from the equation and the landlord got his possession order. The tenant now becomes a housing priority with the local authority.

Afterward the landlord says he had to move out of his rental because of the rent arrears on his first property. So now his family is in an even smaller third property and because of his income they don't qualify for housing benefit. And if he can't move into his original owned property in the next few weeks his family will be out on the street.

Weird, I know - you'll probably raise objections to the facts. But face it - this is the voodoo the Thatcher generation promotes: property is my ... mumblemumblemumble ... oh shit, that was my only life.

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People were obsessed with property before Thatcher.

Teachers are some of the worst groups people I know with the property obsession and no ability to think thru what can go wrong.

At least builders seen to have an appreciation that things can go wrong for quite a few years.

Teachers tend to be over paid for their skills and have a lot of time on their hands.

They think they are underpaid and have very little time.

So they tend to dumb, greedy hence the lure of property get-rich schemes.

Underpin that with a belief in the 'power that be'.

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People were obsessed with property before Thatcher.

Teachers are some of the worst groups people I know with the property obsession and no ability to think thru what can go wrong.

At least builders seen to have an appreciation that things can go wrong for quite a few years.

Teachers tend to be over paid for their skills and have a lot of time on their hands.

They think they are underpaid and have very little time.

So they tend to dumb, greedy hence the lure of property get-rich schemes.

Underpin that with a belief in the 'power that be'.

Bigoted nonsense about teachers. Some work harder than I suspect you have ever done in your life.

I'm not one, but live with one so I can tell you this from first hand experience. Every year when the government comes up with a new idea about how kids should be taught she has to rewrite all the course materials (usually involving unpaid evening and weekend work). Almost a day in every weekend is spent marking books. Then there's reports, parent-teachers meetings (loads of these nowadays) which are unpaid and involved dealing with demanding and irrational parents. Duke of Edinburgh trips, etc. etc. All conducted under the threat of random instantaneous evaluations by a superior and the constant need to run interference on lazy and stupid children who have all to be treated like little gods (no child left behind irregardless of their lack of aptitude or bad attitude). Frankly I have no idea why anyone does it, but the work and stress might actually be partly to blame for a few of the more deluded teachers to reach for the fantasy of becoming property magnates as a dream of getting out of the system and finding an easier life.

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Bigoted nonsense about teachers. Some work harder than I suspect you have ever done in your life.

I'm not one, but live with one so I can tell you this from first hand experience. Every year when the government comes up with a new idea about how kids should be taught she has to rewrite all the course materials (usually involving unpaid evening and weekend work). Almost a day in every weekend is spent marking books. Then there's reports, parent-teachers meetings (loads of these nowadays) which are unpaid and involved dealing with demanding and irrational parents. Duke of Edinburgh trips, etc. etc. All conducted under the threat of random instantaneous evaluations by a superior and the constant need to run interference on lazy and stupid children who have all to be treated like little gods (no child left behind irregardless of their lack of aptitude or bad attitude). Frankly I have no idea why anyone does it, but the work and stress might actually be partly to blame for a few of the more deluded teachers to reach for the fantasy of becoming property magnates as a dream of getting out of the system and finding an easier life.

Why have you bothered posting?

The fact is that some on here spend all day posting and criticise the work ethic of a profession they nothing about. You are not going to change or affect their opinion.

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I don't get investing in property. The repairs, the hassle (whether dealing with tenants directly or dealing with agents) and the general burden and worry.

If the property is well maintained and you get a "good" tenant I would imagine it's not much hassle. The hassle kicks in when you've bought with a IO mortgage and the property starts generating large repair costs that mean you either pay the mortgage or do the repairs.

Personally I think it only makes sense if its a inherited property with no mortgage and then you can save money from the rent to pay for repairs. However I'm guessing people like that are very rare in this business.

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Why have you bothered posting?

The fact is that some on here spend all day posting and criticise the work ethic of a profession they nothing about. You are not going to change or affect their opinion.

Forgetting that most on here spent 10-12 years in the school system.

You'll find most people have a pretty good idea about the UK system.

But then the school system is more about keeping a large number of useless teachers in employment rather than teaching kids.

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If the property is well maintained and you get a "good" tenant I would imagine it's not much hassle. The hassle kicks in when you've bought with a IO mortgage and the property starts generating large repair costs that mean you either pay the mortgage or do the repairs.

Personally I think it only makes sense if its a inherited property with no mortgage and then you can save money from the rent to pay for repairs. However I'm guessing people like that are very rare in this business.

On the subject on tenants, I always ask prospective LLs whether they'd get into the business of hiring Ferraris to people on benefits or young people.

They always look at me like its a mad idea.

They never connect the dotted lines.

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Don't know why, (well I do actually) but loads of public sector workers have jumped into BTL from Doctors to teachers. I know one who works in social services who has one BTL, but accidentally. Found a partner but failed to sell her own place so now let out (as you do).

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Don't know why, (well I do actually) but loads of public sector workers have jumped into BTL from Doctors to teachers. I know one who works in social services who has one BTL, but accidentally. Found a partner but failed to sell her own place so now let out (as you do).

Indeed the only BTLers I have know were from the public sector... a policeman and a doctor (well in the doctor's case it was buy to hoard, because he was relying on capital appreciation and kept a new build empty).

I guess these people have high disposable income and have a guaranteed income to cover voids etc.

But I agree with Eddie-George, why bother..historically about the lowest performing asset class totally reliant on capital appreciation to clear a profit and a major headache.

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Bigoted nonsense about teachers. Some work harder than I suspect you have ever done in your life.

I'm not one, but live with one so I can tell you this from first hand experience. Every year when the government comes up with a new idea about how kids should be taught she has to rewrite all the course materials (usually involving unpaid evening and weekend work). Almost a day in every weekend is spent marking books. Then there's reports, parent-teachers meetings (loads of these nowadays) which are unpaid and involved dealing with demanding and irrational parents. Duke of Edinburgh trips, etc. etc. All conducted under the threat of random instantaneous evaluations by a superior and the constant need to run interference on lazy and stupid children who have all to be treated like little gods (no child left behind irregardless of their lack of aptitude or bad attitude). Frankly I have no idea why anyone does it, but the work and stress might actually be partly to blame for a few of the more deluded teachers to reach for the fantasy of becoming property magnates as a dream of getting out of the system and finding an easier life.

Duke of Edinburgh trips? Wouldn't that be a voluntary part of the job? Or is that paid for? Not sure how many parent/teacher meetings there are each year, must only be a few? And why should their be extra pay for parent/teacher meetings, surely that's simply an intrinsic part of the job, not something they should be paid overtime for? One teacher I know regularly does lunch duty because he gets paid the overtime for it, and others have taken on extra 'responsibilities' because of the extra pay, so it seems to me in general anything else out of your job description there's extra pay for it. Another couple like to gloat about their low workload when the kids are doing their exams - less lessons to teach, more free periods, a nice month or so wind down toward the summer break. Several of the teachers I know do it because it pays a decent wage and they get great holidays. Never heard one of them complain about dealing with irrational parents. Not saying they might not have had to, just don't believe it's that common an occurrence and again, isn't that simply part of the job? Like someone working in retail having to deal with demanding or irrational customers?

I guess someone's teaching experience can depend on what school they work in. A friend used to work in a Roman Catholic school and the kids were well behaved, polite etc. another friend works in a school in a rough part of town and has to deal with behavioural issues that my other friend never used to have to put up with. Of course there's also a huge difference between teaching primary and secondary in general. A lot of people choosing to teach at primary would struggle to teach in a secondary I expect.

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Just to point out this isn't BTL - he bought as OO.

And yes, this is Thatcher's generation. Her policies are fundamental to this nonsense. We didn't get to this point by natural selection.

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Forgetting that most on here spent 10-12 years in the school system.

You'll find most people have a pretty good idea about the UK system.

But then the school system is more about keeping a large number of useless teachers in employment rather than teaching kids.

So what you are saying is that having been in a small number of schools and not having done the job gives you a good idea of the profession. Interesting. Since I have dealt with a number of IT professionals over my career, I can make the sweeping generalisation that they are over sensitive, have an inflated sense of worth, lazy, deluded, whiney and rubbish in human relationships.

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Just to point out this isn't BTL - he bought as OO.

And yes, this is Thatcher's generation. Her policies are fundamental to this nonsense. We didn't get to this point by natural selection.

I thought it might have been a fat finger typo for IO.

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I don't get investing in property. The repairs, the hassle (whether dealing with tenants directly or dealing with agents) and the general burden and worry.

Exactly. I'm not interested in the published yield, it's what might go wrong.

I know one bloke who went round to his east london BTL after the rent stopped and was refused entry (or rather, the tenant had the lock on and hid behind the sofa). He didn't know what to do, he then received a real sob story of a letter from the tenant who had decided to move out. The letter was a whole litany of woes and apologies but the net result was he recieived no rent for months. And the tenant had sold all of his furniture. He actually told this story to downplay people painting him as a property tycoon because he knew it could be a nightmare.

Maintenance bills can be huge, woe betide you if you discover something structural, that can be a £50k bill just to get another thirty years' life out of the property. And £15 - 30k for a roof.

I know three people these days acting as landlords. One finally managed to sell out at a break-even price, one lives in a small rented flat because he can't afford to live in the house he rents out, and one couldn't sell and wanted to move. I don't know anybody over 30 who thinks that getting into BTL is a good idea, people have heard the horror stories and wised up.

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So what you are saying is that having been in a small number of schools and not having done the job gives you a good idea of the profession. Interesting. Since I have dealt with a number of IT professionals over my career, I can make the sweeping generalisation that they are over sensitive, have an inflated sense of worth, lazy, deluded, whiney and rubbish in human relationships.

sounds like they should become teachers.

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Maintenance bills can be huge, woe betide you if you discover something structural, that can be a £50k bill just to get another thirty years' life out of the property. And £15 - 30k for a roof.

Totally agree. Any new roof (more than 25%) will probably mean has to comply building regs, which means ensuring enough insulation, which can be complicated in some instances, with regard the necessary minimum insulation. Ensuring you get someone who knows what they are doing instead of cowboys - perhaps from competent roofer scheme. This house needs a lot of money spent on it, with its leaky roof, chimneys that need rebuilt, double glazing shot, full repointing required. They've just had the gutters fixed after a bracket or something broke, but not before the leak and water flowing out stained the wall. Asbestos which would become an issue if someone ever wanted to modernise one of the rooms, covered for now. Thankfully I don't own a house.

This went into my notes a while ago, as it brought it into sharp focus for me.

Plus maintenance. My dad always said when I was younger that buying a car is the easiest thing in the world, it's the costs of running it that are the hard bit. I have always thought similar applies to a house.

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Just to point out this isn't BTL - he bought as OO.

And yes, this is Thatcher's generation. Her policies are fundamental to this nonsense. We didn't get to this point by natural selection.

Sounds like his wife needs to get a job. Any job.

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Yep, fatcher's fault

Teachers are all Tories

THAT was EXACTLY what I thought!

What a stupid OP comment. Thatcher's children!!! :angry:

Thatcher is turning in her grave how Minor, Bliar and Clown turned back her capitalism for socialism.

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THAT was EXACTLY what I thought!

What a stupid OP comment. Thatcher's children!!! :angry:

Thatcher is turning in her grave how Minor, Bliar and Clown turned back her capitalism for socialism.

You reckon the electorate born after 1950 don't approve of this nonsense?

Keep drinking the sugary poison.

Thatcher's policies = banks run wild. Remember 1986, her greatest achievements: Big Bang + SEA? Not a conservative but a weird radical intent on manipulating state power. And a tidy little moustache would have improved her looks.

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