Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

interestrateripoff

Al Murray: Watching War Films With My Dad

Recommended Posts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10399462/Al-Murray-watching-war-films-with-my-Dad.html

If ever you want to ruin something properly, and by ‘something’ I mean a war film, watch it with my father. Though actually, if ever you want to ruin something (I mean a war film again) properly and he’s not available you could always watch it with me. Maybe ‘ruin’ is a bit strong, but certainly derail, bouleverse, scupper, traduce would cover it. Neither of us can help ourselves. It just happens. Not doing it requires monumental self-control, actual lip-biting.

In our defence I think that it’s obvious why we can’t help ourselves and that really it’s not our fault at all. Because war movies contain representations of real events, real equipment and of course real people, they are ripe, low-hanging fruit for the very worst kind of nit-picky pedantry. And the worst kind is the kind that fills you with a morbid thrill of the delight at being right.

..

However, no matter how wrong the Leopard might be in A Bridge Too Far it’s not like the story-shattering and mind-bending Battle of the Bulge, a true classic of who-cares-what-really-happened film-making. Don't get me – or my Dad – started on that...

Al Murry having a proper HPC type rant over the things that matter.

Always tough trying to make a war film as there isn't loads of old equipment you can you use. There's not many WWII ships left.

Rory2

• an hour ago

Thankfully, the Battle of Britain was made while suitable if not exact versions of the Second world War era aeroplanes were available. The only major historical error -- which could not have been known in 1969 as the information was embargoed by the 30 year rule -- is that the alleged dispute between AVM Trafford Leigh-Mallory (of 'Big Wing' fame ) and AVM Keith Park (of the Flexible Foursomes) was pure counter-intelligence disinformation to disguise the fact that RAF 12 Fighter Group Hawker Hurricanes (cannons on a wing) were being held back for the killer blow that incinerated the Luftwaffe from the 15th of September 1940 onwards. The staggering losses of Nazi pilots and the PTSD suffered by many of those who survived the September-October Big Wing offensive inflicted enormous damage of the efficacy of the Third Reich's war-making capacity. The Battle of Britain was perhaps the best war film since 1953's 'The Cruel Sea'. None to match it since, although the US-Japanese film 'Tora, Tora, Tora' reconstruction of the Pearl Harbour attack deserves an honourable mention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that - I'm a huge fan of war films. My personal favourite is Waterloo - "Scum, the lot of 'em"

Interesting about the 30 year rule. I believe it also affected the Dambusters, as they got the bouncing bomb wrong due to the details still being classified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only major historical error -- which could not have been known in 1969 as the information was embargoed by the 30 year rule -- is that the alleged dispute between AVM Trafford Leigh-Mallory (of 'Big Wing' fame ) and AVM Keith Park (of the Flexible Foursomes) was pure counter-intelligence disinformation to disguise the fact that RAF 12 Fighter Group Hawker Hurricanes (cannons on a wing) were being held back for the killer blow that incinerated the Luftwaffe from the 15th of September 1940 onwards. The staggering losses of Nazi pilots and the PTSD suffered by many of those who survived the September-October Big Wing offensive inflicted enormous damage of the efficacy of the Third Reich's war-making capacity.

That comment is pretty much total c0ck, from beginning to end.

edit (for unprofessionalism in not explaining myself):

Hurricanes weren't equipped with cannon until the MkII. I think something like a total of two cannon-armed prototypes were in service at the time of the BoB

The mutual dislike between Park & Dowding and Leigh Mallory & Bader is documented and both Park & Dowding got knifed in the back shortly after the BoB, probably by Leigh Mallory & Bader*

The Big Wing didn't inflict massive casualties on the Luftwaffe, though Bader & Leigh Mallory claimed loads

The Big Wing wasn't held back for a killer blow. It just kept turning up too late to fight the attacking Germans because it took too long to assemble. It only started to actually encounter Germans later in the BoB because the Germans started flying further inland after splattering 11 Group's airfields (partly because 12 Group wasn't protecting them adequately)

The Big Wing wasn't an offensive tactic and the BoB barely scratched Germany's war making capacity

There's more but I can't be @rsed

edit#2: * I just checked on the current received wisdom on whether Leigh Mallory connived to give Park & Dowding the shaft after they helped avoid Britain's defeat in the BoB and...

The political intrigues within the Air Ministry, particularly the activities of Leigh-Mallory and Sholto Douglas, led to the replacement of Dowding and Park on 25 November 1940, two months after the British victory. Leigh-Mallory replaced Keith Park at No. 11 Group, and Sholto Douglas replaced Dowding at Fighter Command.[8] When the official history of the Battle of Britain was published, Dowding's name was not mentioned, leading Churchill to minute Sinclair: "This is not a good story... The jealousies and cliquism which have led to the committing of this offence are a discredit to the Air Ministry."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10399462/Al-Murray-watching-war-films-with-my-Dad.html

Al Murry having a proper HPC type rant over the things that matter.

Always tough trying to make a war film as there isn't loads of old equipment you can you use. There's not many WWII ships left.

He is right about the film the Battle of the Bulge being a shocker for getting both the history and the weaponry so wrong. The German tanks don't even look vaguely like Tigers and Panthers while the Ardennes appears to have lost all its forest (not surprisingly as the film was shot in Spain) and the snow that covered the ground in that part of Europe during the winter of 1944-45 .

Mind you I get the same way about gardens in films

The sight of Elizabeth Bennett and Mr Darcy walking through Pemberley (Lyme Park) in the TV production of Pride and Prejudice with a herbaceous border in the background is enough to drive me to apoplexy at the historical horticultural inaccuracy of the scene The grass also looks obviously as though it has been cut with a lawn mower right down to the stripes

And don't get me started on the recent TV version of the Tudors where Henry VIII and his various wives ride around in Victorian carriages

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6005582/BBC-period-show-The-Tudors-is-historically-inaccurate-leading-historian-says.html

They simply could not be ars*d to get it even vaguely right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is right about the film the Battle of the Bulge being a shocker for getting both the history and the weaponry so wrong.

Battle of the Bulge is the Daddy of inauthentic war films.

U-571 is a strong contender as well though.

Mind you I get the same way about gardens in films

:lol:

Chase scenes set in London, teleporting miles between each cut, for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Battle of the Bulge is the Daddy of inauthentic war films.

U-571 is a strong contender as well though.

If you're looking for inaccurate history, I give you one word. Braveheart.

Here's a good analysis of the errors that are contained in the first 2 minutes of the film. After that, I suspect the historian gave up!

http://medievalscotland.org/scotbiblio/bravehearterrors.shtml

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're looking for inaccurate history, I give you one word. Braveheart.

Here's a good analysis of the errors that are contained in the first 2 minutes of the film. After that, I suspect the historian gave up!

http://medievalscotland.org/scotbiblio/bravehearterrors.shtml

The movie that gave you the Battle of Stirling Bridge ... without the Bridge. Genius.

I don't think Mel Gibson likes the English very much. How about that scene in The Patriot when the English lock everyone in a church and burn it down SS style. Nice.

Both pre Iraq War 2 though, Hollywood has been kinder to the English when rewriting history since.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

U-571 is a strong contender as well though.

Ah yes. The story of how the Americans won the war by breaking the Enigma Code.

"The Great Escape" is another film that throws authenticity into the cooler, in favour of Hollywood spin. There were no Americans involved in the actual escape, they had all been transferred several months before the tunnel was completed, although they did help with the tunnelling and escape preparations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

War films are just that, not documentaries. I quite like to see German dispatch riders on a Norton! :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so much of a war film, but a war was on and was heavily refferenced in the film is Lincoln the Vampire Hunter, i think this film might not be authentic but i cant quite put my finger on what though.

Other war films i like are the Star Wars set (set a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites