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@markyh


OK, I don't know your details, but it appears that mined BTC is subject to income tax in the year that it was mined.

So

1) you may have a small income tax bill (plus penalties) for your undeclared mined bitcoins.

2) If you don't regularise 1) with HMRC, they will be asking lots of questions when you come to cash out, and pay any CGT. They will still be looking for any taxes (plus penalties) arising from 1)

Edited by RodCrosby
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Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see fami

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it. Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years

Bitcoin Cash can and will scale on chain. The technology advance within the next decade will allow it to happen with ease and always remain ahead of demand. What Core have done to Bitcoin is criminal

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6 minutes ago, RodCrosby said:

@markyh

 

OK, I don't know your details, but it appears that mined BTC is subject to income tax in the year that it was mined.

So

1) you may have a small income tax bill (plus penalties) for your undeclared mined bitcoins.

2) If you don't regularise 1) with HMRC, they will be asking lots of questions when you come to cash out, and pay any CGT. They will still be looking for any taxes (plus penalties) arising from 1)

Think you are correct. Here is the example income report and it includes mining:

https://recap.io/examples/uk/recap-example-income-report-2017-18.pdf

And here's the example CGT report:

https://recap.io/examples/uk/recap-example-disposals-report-2017-18.pdf

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7 minutes ago, RodCrosby said:

@markyh

 

OK, I don't know your details, but it appears that mined BTC is subject to income tax in the year that it was mined.

So

1) you may have a small income tax bill (plus penalties) for your undeclared mined bitcoins.

2) If you don't regularise 1) with HMRC, they will be asking lots of questions when you come to cash out, and pay any CGT. They will still be looking for any taxes (plus penalties) arising from 1)

Get lost, bunch of pussies, it was £2k in 2012/13/14.  long long in the past, before they ever released legislation of taxes on crypto. I will ever even mention it.

plus, all my crypto mining was done via contracts within a company i own registered in the Cayman Islands...........offshore. 😉

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1 hour ago, longgone said:

Seems jj got out nearly the right time before the ass fell out of it.

Couple days before would have been better

If I were more organised I could of sold when I first said I needed to get out as it was toppy, I would of sold bang on the peak and made £20k more. But I was in the process, as I was selling the price was dropping and bounced and during the bounce I finally could cash out, the network traffic on bitcoin spiked and the transactions suddenly started taking ages. 

im glad I have sold when I did, feels like a good choice in the short to medium term. 

in other news:

still funds are on hold, it’s a nightmare getting detailed transaction data from that long ago. I found all but one transaction, and may have to way for physical statements to land on my door-Mat which takes 5 days (hate legacy banking systems!) 

I also did what a previous user did and list the prices I bought at along with the dates

it’s been useful for when I come to fill out the tax return knowing exact amounts 

sent it back to them, if it still gets held up I think they are officially being picky. 

fingers crossed I have provided enough information this time around or I may have to wait until the post arrives with the old requested statements from my bank and PayPal. 

I think they are basically making sure you actually bought the bitcoin for monies instead of being paid for anything illicit in bitcoin. 

I’m hoping everything is fine, I will have a record of that final transaction somewhere in the paper.

would be a bit shit if due to one deleted e-Mail from years ago it would mean my funds are stuck/lost forever. 

I suppose I would have to get a Lawer or something if that’s the case. 

but fingers crossed for now. 

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@markyh

Well, good luck with that.

As I've said before, HMRC won't accept your CGT submissions without full calculations, 

leading to the discovery of 1) mentioned above.

I'm sure HMRC would be very interested in your offshore company too... [You have to declare whether you have used any tax-avoidance schemes....]
 

I would honestly try to regularize 1) now with HMRC, to save yourself a world of hurt.


Your liabilities under 1) are hopefully very small at the moment. I would pick up the phone and speak to HMRC, so you can get certainty and finality before moving on to your far more important transaction 2).
 

Or speak to a crypto-accountant.

e.g.https://www.thefriendlyaccountants.co.uk/tax-treatment-of-crypto-assets-for-individuals/

https://decrypt.co/16833/how-to-file-your-crypto-taxes-in-the-uk

Edited by RodCrosby
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52 minutes ago, RodCrosby said:

@markyh

Well, good luck with that.

As I've said before, HMRC won't accept your CGT submissions without full calculations, 

leading to the discovery of 1) mentioned above.

I'm sure HMRC would be very interested in your offshore company too... 
 

I would honestly try to regularize 1) now with HMRC, to save yourself a world of hurt.

 

Your liabilities under 1) are hopefully very small at the moment. I would pick up the phone and speak to HMRC, so you can get certainty and finality before moving on to your far more important transaction 2).

 

Or speak to a crypto-accountant.

e.g.https://www.thefriendlyaccountants.co.uk/tax-treatment-of-crypto-assets-for-individuals/

Nope.  My bitcoin was mined in the Cayman islands, nothing to do with HMRC. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Warlord said:

BTC and Tesla the ultimate bubble(s).  Perhaps this is the vast correction.. We shall see.  

BTW Gold sovs are tax free and useful in terms of exchange unlike BTC which is useless and soon worthless

Shall we expect you back every 30% correct up to $500k BTC ?

 

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6 minutes ago, markyh said:

Nope.  My bitcoin was mined in the Cayman islands, nothing to do with HMRC. 

 

When you come to cash-out and pay CGT.

HMRC may well ask "Can you explain and show to us in detail where these bitcoins came from?"

Because if you mined them, we have no record... And you are not claiming you bought them...

Edited by RodCrosby
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1 hour ago, markyh said:

Get lost, bunch of pussies, it was £2k in 2012/13/14.  long long in the past, before they ever released legislation of taxes on crypto. I will ever even mention it.

plus, all my crypto mining was done via contracts within a company i own registered in the Cayman Islands...........offshore. 😉

😂 👍

I think you're fine anyway - because you mined early it was probably less than a grand in the tax year wasn't it, which is within the misc income allowance.

https://help.recap.io/en/articles/3315712-what-taxes-do-cryptocurrency-miners-pay-in-the-uk

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2 minutes ago, RodCrosby said:

When you come to cash-out and pay CGT.

HMRC may well ask "Can you explain and show to us in detail where these bitcoins came from?"

Because if you mined them, we have no record...

Why would i pay CGT?, the bitcoin are the property of a company i own in the Cayman islands, they have no CGT. I wont ever mention it to HMRC, offshore wealth. 

 

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1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

If I were more organised I could of sold when I first said I needed to get out as it was toppy, I would of sold bang on the peak and made £20k more. But I was in the process, as I was selling the price was dropping and bounced and during the bounce I finally could cash out, the network traffic on bitcoin spiked and the transactions suddenly started taking ages. 

im glad I have sold when I did, feels like a good choice in the short to medium term. 

in other news:

still funds are on hold, it’s a nightmare getting detailed transaction data from that long ago. I found all but one transaction, and may have to way for physical statements to land on my door-Mat which takes 5 days (hate legacy banking systems!) 

I also did what a previous user did and list the prices I bought at along with the dates

it’s been useful for when I come to fill out the tax return knowing exact amounts 

sent it back to them, if it still gets held up I think they are officially being picky. 

fingers crossed I have provided enough information this time around or I may have to wait until the post arrives with the old requested statements from my bank and PayPal. 

I think they are basically making sure you actually bought the bitcoin for monies instead of being paid for anything illicit in bitcoin. 

I’m hoping everything is fine, I will have a record of that final transaction somewhere in the paper.

would be a bit shit if due to one deleted e-Mail from years ago it would mean my funds are stuck/lost forever. 

I suppose I would have to get a Lawer or something if that’s the case. 

but fingers crossed for now. 

Use the Blockchain too surely, that's what it's there for? That's my plan. I looked today, I have the records of the bank transfers done to the person on local bitcoins and the Blockchain addresses for each transaction, and then a consolidation transaction into another wallet. If anyone wants more than that, it's pretty ridiculous. 

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6 minutes ago, markyh said:

Why would i pay CGT?, the bitcoin are the property of a company i own in the Cayman islands, they have no CGT. I wont ever mention it to HMRC, offshore wealth. 

 

You won't get away with that Mark, believe me.  Caymans has info sharing agreement with HMG.

Nice try though

Your gainz are gonna be subject to a massive tax bill one way or another....

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@markyh

OK, each to their own. 

Just to say that the HMRC probably have several million man-hours banked in dealing with people who thought that a clever wheeze here or a stroke of a pen there could escape their clutches.

Even multi-millionaires.

https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/btc/1984-btc-8101

 

And, REMEMBER, the onus is always on YOU, the taxpayer, to DISPROVE what the HMRC say you owe.

NOT the other way round...

 

They could, in theory, say "You owe us £1 million". 

All the blithering and wailing in the world wouldn't alter it.

You would either have to sue HMRC, at your cost, and hopefully succeed in disproving their assessment in a court of law.

Or simply wait for them to make you bankrupt for £1 million...

[or pay the £1 million]

Edited by RodCrosby
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15 minutes ago, RodCrosby said:

@markyh

OK, each to their own. 

Just to say that the HMRC probably have several million man-hours banked in dealing with people who thought that a clever wheeze here or  a stroke of a pen there could escape their clutches.

Even multi-millionaires.

https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/btc/1984-btc-8101

 

And the onus is always on YOU, the taxpayer, to DISPROVE what the HMRC say you owe.

Not the other way round....

Had a errrr, Friend who did a fair bit to tax evasion 2010/11 when self employed, lots of cash jobs that never made it into the bank account, claimed tax credits to back then, probably £20k of evasion. Never heard a peep. But then how could HMRC possibly know? Treat HMRC like mushrooms, keep them in the dark, make sure you pay a reasonable bit of tax every year, everyone's happy.

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14 minutes ago, Frugal Git said:

Use the Blockchain too surely, that's what it's there for? That's my plan. I looked today, I have the records of the bank transfers done to the person on local bitcoins and the Blockchain addresses for each transaction, and then a consolidation transaction into another wallet. If anyone wants more than that, it's pretty ridiculous. 

You would think so!

the block-chain is great for finding the transactions and dates, just need to dig through block-explorer until you hit amounts which were obviously not yours. 

so that narrows down the search to a few dates, then you need proof of the transactions in the fiat world, so bank statements, PayPal statements, eBay statements, screen-shots

if you mined, proof of the equipment costs, receipts, transactions from the issuer (in my case nicehash) 

the biggest issue I had is PayPal and my bank doesn’t go back that far, so you have to make special requests. 

it’s a bit of a pain. thankfully it’s obvious when transactions amount to and what that related to. 

just going to be painful waiting for physical bank-statements to come in the post (in five days time) and PayPal have to do a data now load from their servers to get the transactions from that far back, it’s possible bit takes 72 hours.

lots of ringing around, and human error on the side of PayPal and my banks, which doesn’t help, not to mention coinfloor not getting back to me until fairly late in the day. 

What a pain. must be nicer for those just playing in bitcoin with £1k at a time. 

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31 minutes ago, markyh said:

Had a errrr, Friend who did a fair bit to tax evasion 2010/11 when self employed, lots of cash jobs that never made it into the bank account, claimed tax credits to back then, probably £20k of evasion. Never heard a peep. But then how could HMRC possibly know? Treat HMRC like mushrooms, keep them in the dark, make sure you pay a reasonable bit of tax every year, everyone's happy.

I understand HMRC have a threshold of suspected £25k unpaid tax, where they take the gloves off, and pursue aggressively, come what may...

Anyhow, not my problem. Good Luck, whatever you decide.

Edited by RodCrosby
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13 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

You would think so!

the block-chain is great for finding the transactions and dates, just need to dig through block-explorer until you hit amounts which were obviously not yours. 

so that narrows down the search to a few dates, then you need proof of the transactions in the fiat world, so bank statements, PayPal statements, eBay statements, screen-shots

if you mined, proof of the equipment costs, receipts, transactions from the issuer (in my case nicehash) 

the biggest issue I had is PayPal and my bank doesn’t go back that far, so you have to make special requests. 

it’s a bit of a pain. thankfully it’s obvious when transactions amount to and what that related to. 

just going to be painful waiting for physical bank-statements to come in the post (in five days time) and PayPal have to do a data now load from their servers to get the transactions from that far back, it’s possible bit takes 72 hours.

lots of ringing around, and human error on the side of PayPal and my banks, which doesn’t help, not to mention coinfloor not getting back to me until fairly late in the day. 

What a pain. must be nicer for those just playing in bitcoin with £1k at a time. 

I'm kind of thankful now I just used Kraken from 2013 as all my history is on their ledger and easily transferable into Recap. What you are going through sounds like a real pain.

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5 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

BUY THE DIP...

 

 

Microstrategy's bots are still buying $2000 of BTC every second, 24/7!!  He is trying to buy £1.05b worth asap.  He must be loving this, he is buying all the noobs bags at a discount. 

I think it will keep going intil 10th march or something before all his purchases are complete.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, markyh said:

Microstrategy's bots are still buying $2000 of BTC every second, 24/7!!  He is trying to buy £1.05b worth asap.  He must be loving this, he is buying all the noobs bags at a discount. 

I think it will keep going intil 10th march or something before all his purchases are complete.

 

 

 

https://investors.squareup.com/news/news-details/2021/Square-Inc.-Announces-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2020-Results/default.aspx

Square also announced today that it has purchased approximately 3,318 bitcoins at an aggregate purchase price of $170 million. Combined with Square’s previous purchase of $50 million in bitcoin, this represents approximately five percent of Square’s total cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities as of December 31, 2020.

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