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14 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

we are taxed heavily in the U.K. and although it’s hard to actually quantify in absolute numbers, when you factor in how much wealth/value is also stolen from you on top of the taxes, at a guess the actual tax rate of an individual would be something mental like 80%, yeah that is bad. But no-one starves. we do have a lot of positives in this country, of course we pay a lot for it but great. 

if we had very hard money, then the NHS would only do the very basics, so would the police, fire, etc etc, education would only be for the rich, the poor would starve and riot and loot. We couldn’t afford a minimum wage, work-houses etc. Sounds drastic but if you can’t magic money up (steal from everyone’s wallet without being obvious) we could not live in the world that we do. 

I'm sorry but this is internet nonsense at its worst.

Of course inflation created by fiat currency "greases the wheels" of government and makes their life easier, which is why they do it.  But to assume that in a "very hard money" world people would refuse to pay higher taxes, and yet sit there and watch people die - literally DIE around them - whilst those not dying are rioting and looting?  I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.  

When the world changes, people change.  The idea that we would end up in a cross between Victorian England and Mad Max, rather than adapt our collective behaviour, is beyond absurd.

If we had hard money it would change every root, every branch, every twig of our society.  You say we "couldn't pay our way in the world" but that's assuming we spend, borrow and import the way we do today, even though the monetary system would be totally different.  In practice we wouldn't do that.

It's the same mistake people make when they discuss things like climate change and peak oil as well - yes if we woke up tomorrow morning and there was a worldwide temperature 2C higher, no oil, and hard money, it would be chaos.  But that won't happen.  What really happens is that gradually over decades and centuries as the world changes so we humans change our behaviour with it.

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On 14/06/2019 at 16:40, tomandlu said:

. But a holder of a deflationary currency is hoping to make a claim on the productivity of others without producing anything of value.

Well the fruits of increased productivity over time have to go somewhere. In our current inflationary system it goes to banks and asset holders. With deflation it goes to savers and as long as deflation continues (which it will so long as productivity continues to increase) then everyone gets their turn at being a saver and benefiting from this economic dividend.

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26 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

I'm sorry but this is internet nonsense at its worst.

Of course inflation created by fiat currency "greases the wheels" of government and makes their life easier, which is why they do it.  But to assume that in a "very hard money" world people would refuse to pay higher taxes, and yet sit there and watch people die - literally DIE around them - whilst those not dying are rioting and looting?  I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.  

When the world changes, people change.  The idea that we would end up in a cross between Victorian England and Mad Max, rather than adapt our collective behaviour, is beyond absurd.

Not to mention that from 1950 to 1970 the US enjoyed period of sustained and significant increases in real wages and living standards generally despite having a gold pegged dollar.

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I think you have an unusually positive outlook on human behaviour. 

more realistically people only care about their direct family. 

people are more likely to ask for spikes to stop the homeless sleeping in their posh flats doorway that to tackle the homeless problem. 

or moan that the beggars are hassling them. 

its just humans behind humans, I mean a lot of people actually support the Conservative party for gods sake! 

Edited by jiltedjen

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1 hour ago, scottbeard said:

I'm sorry but this is internet nonsense at its worst.

Of course inflation created by fiat currency "greases the wheels" of government and makes their life easier, which is why they do it.  But to assume that in a "very hard money" world people would refuse to pay higher taxes, and yet sit there and watch people die - literally DIE around them - whilst those not dying are rioting and looting?  I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.  

When the world changes, people change.  The idea that we would end up in a cross between Victorian England and Mad Max, rather than adapt our collective behaviour, is beyond absurd.

If we had hard money it would change every root, every branch, every twig of our society.  You say we "couldn't pay our way in the world" but that's assuming we spend, borrow and import the way we do today, even though the monetary system would be totally different.  In practice we wouldn't do that.

It's the same mistake people make when they discuss things like climate change and peak oil as well - yes if we woke up tomorrow morning and there was a worldwide temperature 2C higher, no oil, and hard money, it would be chaos.  But that won't happen.  What really happens is that gradually over decades and centuries as the world changes so we humans change our behaviour with it.

Good post. I think people would accept higher taxes if we had hard money and could see the full government budget. Right now we’re stealth taxed by inflation.

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22 hours ago, markyh said:

In a few years, plenty, I have a Tesla model 3 performance pencilled in for 2021/22 , should be around 0.4btc or less by then. 

7% rise overnight. Straight up since the low. My choice just got upgraded from citreon, to bmw, to aston, to lambo.

Edited by GreenDevil

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2 hours ago, GreenDevil said:

7% rise overnight. Straight up since the low. My choice just got upgraded from citreon, to bmw, to aston, to lambo.

Pullback to $9k. I’m actually uncomfortable with this, prior pullback from $9.1k was only 20%, way short of the 30-40% we are used to. I should be happy but it’s feeling to fast and fast rises end in bigger crashes. 

Maybe we will hit $10k early soon then sell off to $6k-$7k. 

Otherwise I fear a rise to $15k then a mini crash to $6-7k.

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Halving is less than a year away. this rise is quite predictable. might have a few pull-backs as usual on the way but it’s very early days in this bubble, and we are almost already at half of the last bubble. 

going to be a scary high peak. 

but as always it will again be a higher low when it does reach the crash part of the cycle, which could be as late as next June. 

not even into the mania stage when all the nutters start saying their shitecoin is the next best thing, and start to drown out the sensible bitcoiners on this thread. Claiming there is a demand for a digital fiat etc etc. 

meanwhile in the real economy we are due another large recession at some point, but that’s not here yet, might not be here for another 2 or even 3 years, but the search for yield as the general economy trades sideways for ages will boost bitcoin. 

bitcoin is gold 2.0 and soon enough we can see how gold should work when it’s truely a limited supply (no paper contracts and open ledger baby!)

seem to be hearing a lot more stories of banks closing accounts linked to exchanges at the moment which makes me a little nervous. 

Anyone on here had any issues with having their bank account shutdown? 

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58 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

Halving is less than a year away. this rise is quite predictable. might have a few pull-backs as usual on the way but it’s very early days in this bubble, and we are almost already at half of the last bubble. 

going to be a scary high peak. 

but as always it will again be a higher low when it does reach the crash part of the cycle, which could be as late as next June. 

not even into the mania stage when all the nutters start saying their shitecoin is the next best thing, and start to drown out the sensible bitcoiners on this thread. Claiming there is a demand for a digital fiat etc etc. 

meanwhile in the real economy we are due another large recession at some point, but that’s not here yet, might not be here for another 2 or even 3 years, but the search for yield as the general economy trades sideways for ages will boost bitcoin. 

bitcoin is gold 2.0 and soon enough we can see how gold should work when it’s truely a limited supply (no paper contracts and open ledger baby!)

seem to be hearing a lot more stories of banks closing accounts linked to exchanges at the moment which makes me a little nervous. 

Anyone on here had any issues with having their bank account shutdown? 

Had a few £k of mining bitcoin sales Sepa from Kraken to a few Uk bank in 2018 and not a peep. I suspect the USA has more problems. 

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3 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Halving is less than a year away. this rise is quite predictable. might have a few pull-backs as usual on the way but it’s very early days in this bubble, and we are almost already at half of the last bubble. 

going to be a scary high peak. 

but as always it will again be a higher low when it does reach the crash part of the cycle, which could be as late as next June. 

not even into the mania stage when all the nutters start saying their shitecoin is the next best thing, and start to drown out the sensible bitcoiners on this thread. Claiming there is a demand for a digital fiat etc etc. 

meanwhile in the real economy we are due another large recession at some point, but that’s not here yet, might not be here for another 2 or even 3 years, but the search for yield as the general economy trades sideways for ages will boost bitcoin. 

bitcoin is gold 2.0 and soon enough we can see how gold should work when it’s truely a limited supply (no paper contracts and open ledger baby!)

seem to be hearing a lot more stories of banks closing accounts linked to exchanges at the moment which makes me a little nervous. 

Anyone on here had any issues with having their bank account shutdown? 

This time I think awareness is higher that shit coins are shit coins. We won't see the deviation like last time. It'll be the top coins with secure networks, use cases and dev teams that profit. Keep you money in the top 5 and you're diamond. 

I think the banks problem are large transfers. Everything over 20k gets investigated. 

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I’m pretty sure we will close to the peak. 

insane ramblings of altcoin pumpers. they will come! 

probably those too scared to buy bitcoin until it’s in all the news headlines then they FOMO right into the peak into ‘the next bitcoin’

just like the last peak. 

All alts are worthless. ETH etc all just worthless rubbish. 

 

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3 hours ago, WilliG said:

Bitcoin is up more than 100% from its low point a few months back. Investing in crypto is still very profitable, but the point is that it is high risk with incredible volatility. The three majors alone have made strong returns this year - BTC, LTC, ETH. Personally I like gambling on BTC from time to time here https://syndicate.casino/en-ie/casino/slots . There are many cool slots with bonuses for new players. 

XRP is the digital asset in 3rd spot. Look at the price of Bitcoin, ETH, XRP for the last few years. 

They've been in the top 3 almost permanently. I'd stick to just them. 

Concerningly I can envisage bitcoin falling foul of environmentalists and eth falling foul of securities regulation. 

The asset without these issues is XRP. Therefore that is my main horse. I have an outstanding record of investments in the traditional arenas so I'm very confident in my assessment. 

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1 hour ago, dragging boot straps said:

Concerningly I can envisage bitcoin falling foul of environmentalists and eth falling foul of securities regulation. 

The asset without these issues is XRP. Therefore that is my main horse. I have an outstanding record of investments in the traditional arenas so I'm very confident in my assessment. 

XRP is in the same boat as eth when it comes to regulatory risk, if not worse.

Both would not be legal to issue now without being registered as securities. So far the regulators in the US have given them a free pass because of the sheer momentum of the sector. XRP has the additional problem of being run by officially licenced nodes which makes it more vulnerable to a regulatory attack than etherium which is a true public blockchain.

Exactly what you think environmentalists can do about bitcoin I have no idea, I see no reason why they are more of a threat that governments generally.

 

 

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3 hours ago, dragging boot straps said:

XRP is the digital asset in 3rd spot. Look at the price of Bitcoin, ETH, XRP for the last few years. 

They've been in the top 3 almost permanently. I'd stick to just them. 

Concerningly I can envisage bitcoin falling foul of environmentalists and eth falling foul of securities regulation. 

The asset without these issues is XRP. Therefore that is my main horse. I have an outstanding record of investments in the traditional arenas so I'm very confident in my assessment. 

Xrp is a bankers shit coin. The people who want crypto want an anonymous secure asset. They don't want a banker coin. Xrp had its bubble. It will die along with the other shit coins. Take a look at what happened to elevtroneum after the introduced kyc. It died. Xrp will go the same way. 

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https://ripple.com/insights/ripple-announces-strategic-partnership-with-money-transfer-giant-moneygram/

 

Wow massive partnership. The biggest ever within the crypto space. Real and genuine use of XRP and not just a pipe dream. 

This is unbelievable and should drive the whole market forward. Been filling my bags like crazy with XRP and now hopefully it will come home to roost. Market is flying. 

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25 minutes ago, dragging boot straps said:

It is not the biggest ever in the banking space. That is a ludicrous claim.

It is however the biggest ever in the cryptocurrency world unless you can name a bigger one? 

Bitcoin. $0 to hundred of billions $ new asset class Within 10 years. And I own several thousand XRP. 

When the price of XRP rises when Bitcoin crashes i will concede. But all other crypto still plays follow the leader. 

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3 hours ago, dragging boot straps said:

It is however the biggest ever in the cryptocurrency world unless you can name a bigger one? 

It isn’t a cryptocurrency

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might put a little into libra, it’s a different proposition to Bitcoin in that it’s not going to a value store.

It’s only so much of a value store as it’s better to have USD than GBP. 

and it also completely kills all other alt coins, which never stood a chance. 

Its not a threat to Bitcoin, as it will be managed and prevented from mooning. it might see some small returns, but nothing on the scale of bitcoins value store gold 2.0.

its digital fiat. but has a huge user potential user base, which none of the alts ever had. 

but I do wonder if Facebook have the wrong idea, 2 billions users could soon turn into 1 billion as the countries will terrible fiat act to ban Facebook, not on the grounds of free-speech etc, but as it’s a threat to their crappy fiat money? 

only a small punt mind, not a lot of point in a digital world coin fiat. not unless your in a crappy 3rd world country 

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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