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The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

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1 hour ago, bobbo said:

How about a bank account that compounds weekly.

"net of inflation".  Your FIAT cash may compound be it is still losing money relative to inflation every week.

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48 minutes ago, markyh said:

"net of inflation".  Your FIAT cash may compound be it is still losing money relative to inflation every week.

That is also very true.  The two things you can be 100% certain of are that:

- your bank account balance will keep going up

- the amount of stuff you can actually buy with the balance will keep going down

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59 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

That is also very true.  The two things you can be 100% certain of are that:

- your bank account balance will keep going up

- the amount of stuff you can actually buy with the balance will keep going down

depends what you are buying really there are plenty things cheaper now than a couple of years ago. 

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3 hours ago, longgone said:

depends what you are buying really there are plenty things cheaper now than a couple of years ago. 

That you need more than one of? Not many things. My whole adult life I have been a hifi and home cinema buff. 90% of my equipment changes have been due to technology advances rather than dropping prices. My current 55" OLED 4k 3D Dolby Vision TV doesn't don't any basic things that a 2nd hand 42" Hitachi 720p flat screen did in 2006.  But a 55" 1080p Smart TV in 2006 would have cost about 10k , I paid 1500 for my 2017 TV brand new as Currys excess stock via Richer Sounds. Did I need it? No. the 47" 1080p 3D TV it replaced was fine, but I just wanted it.

Do I need another cheaper 4k Bluray player than the one I got in 2017? Nope, I still  have the 1080p bluray player it replaced and the DVD player that replaced, and the High end Sony VCR that replaced. 

Sure if you want to replace electronics like for like year on year it gets cheaper and cheaper, but staples such as food, Shelter and clothing keep going up and up, as does transportation costs. 

Back in 2007 you could easily early book a adult direct 12 hr return flight to Cape Town SA for 300 quid in the BA January sale. Now you will struggle to get a 2 change Emerites 20hr return flight for 800 quid. Over double the cost in a decade as we haven't been since 2017.

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3 hours ago, markyh said:

That you need more than one of? Not many things. My whole adult life I have been a hifi and home cinema buff. 90% of my equipment changes have been due to technology advances rather than dropping prices. My current 55" OLED 4k 3D Dolby Vision TV doesn't don't any basic things that a 2nd hand 42" Hitachi 720p flat screen did in 2006.  But a 55" 1080p Smart TV in 2006 would have cost about 10k , I paid 1500 for my 2017 TV brand new as Currys excess stock via Richer Sounds. Did I need it? No. the 47" 1080p 3D TV it replaced was fine, but I just wanted it.

Do I need another cheaper 4k Bluray player than the one I got in 2017? Nope, I still  have the 1080p bluray player it replaced and the DVD player that replaced, and the High end Sony VCR that replaced. 

Sure if you want to replace electronics like for like year on year it gets cheaper and cheaper, but staples such as food, Shelter and clothing keep going up and up, as does transportation costs. 

Back in 2007 you could easily early book a adult direct 12 hr return flight to Cape Town SA for 300 quid in the BA January sale. Now you will struggle to get a 2 change Emerites 20hr return flight for 800 quid. Over double the cost in a decade as we haven't been since 2017.

Electronics are much cheaper apart from rip off flagship phones.  My pioneer 43" plasma was 5-6k in 2003 my 65" oled Panasonic was only 1400 however I never pay retail for anything. Clothes are cheap if you buy clever I buy lots of Timberland stuff for not much more than Primark prices. Food is not that much if you buy clever again. Cars are initally expensive however depreciation is for more than it used to be so a nearly new car is not much more than prices 15 years back. I have bought 3 brand new cars and the latest one was most well specced and cost less than the same car 14 years after the first.  

2003 I flew to NYC for 170 now it's just over 200 not much more. Air fares are down to route competition 

Housing as we know is rigged inflation or no inflation.

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On 17/05/2019 at 07:07, narco said:

Looks like this turd is printing a shooting star on the weekly ready for the final flush. Now at $7200.

Anyone buying the 'dip' ?

I think you are seeing things. No shooting star on the weekly and what dip? That was what we call a whale blip. 😁

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I like this fact, 

There is only 0.00272 BTC for every human on Earth. If you HODL 0.28 BTC, that puts you in the 1%. Hodling 1 BTC means you own 357 times as much as the there is for the average person. 

So if you Hodl 8 or more, you are on the 1% of the 1%.  Comforting.

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On 19/05/2019 at 11:27, markyh said:

So if you Hodl 8 or more, you are on the 1% of the 1%.  Comforting.

Well let's hope you feel just as comforted when it's down at sub $1,300. 

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One year to the halving! golden 12 months ahead. 

economy looks to be extremely slowly rolling into a recession also, so plenty of big meaty lumps of QE and heavy duty monetary policy. 

all that freshly printed money will be seeking a rising asset class. 

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3 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

One year to the halving! golden 12 months ahead. 

economy looks to be extremely slowly rolling into a recession also, so plenty of big meaty lumps of QE and heavy duty monetary policy. 

all that freshly printed money will be seeking a rising asset class. 

My money is on all asset classes taking a hit and reward returning to genuinely productive labour.

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2 hours ago, bobbo said:

My money is on all asset classes taking a hit and reward returning to genuinely productive labour.

nah it'll be the trickle down, the Citidels will need lots of minimum wage workers.

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20 hours ago, bobbo said:

My money is on all asset classes taking a hit and reward returning to genuinely productive labour.

That’s what I hoped and dreamed for years ago, that the world would suddenly become fair a the productive would be rewarded.

the most productive getting the nicest houses. 

instead it didn’t happen, the full weight of government policy and central bank policy was behind the status quo. the corruption continues. 

after seeing how far they would go I realised fiat would always be thrown under the bus, assets would keep rising. 

there is only one way to break the wheel. 

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it`s always wise to have a varied investment portfolio. 

that`s why i only put 85k into per institution. 

i can see over priced assets returning to their real values property gold and well crypto what value does that have intrinsically LOL. 

gold is good for manufacturing electronics and bling, houses are good to live in what can you do with crypto  apart from take space up on the usb stick. 

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29 minutes ago, longgone said:

i can see over priced assets returning to their real values property gold and well crypto what value does that have intrinsically LOL. 

gold is good for manufacturing electronics and bling, houses are good to live in what can you do with crypto  apart from take space up on the usb stick. 

Nil

But it could go to a very, very high price before it goes to Nil

Worth a little bit of a punt surely?  That's the attitude I take.

In my view it's a punt and nothing more - we're not all going to be buying crisps from the corner shop with bitcoin.  But it now feels almost certain to me that the previous high of $20k will be overtaken at some point, so buying a bit now at $8k (or at least holding it) seems worth doing for the next 5-10 years, even if in 50-100 years' time it will be worth zero.

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5 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Nil

But it could go to a very, very high price before it goes to Nil

Worth a little bit of a punt surely?  That's the attitude I take.

In my view it's a punt and nothing more - we're not all going to be buying crisps from the corner shop with bitcoin.  But it now feels almost certain to me that the previous high of $20k will be overtaken at some point, so buying a bit now at $8k (or at least holding it) seems worth doing for the next 5-10 years, even if in 50-100 years' time it will be worth zero.

To be fair to these guys it probably will go up again like the way it went up before with MEDIA and VI pushing it up.  Trouble is none of them will cash out so what does it matter.  There is no store of wealth there not long term anyway. 

It`s just a drawn out in play bet on the longest horse race in the world. 

a punt yes but not at the price now, surely to gain maximum profit the VI`s will manipulate the price to virtually nothing  pic up the scare sells then whack it back up. 

i would be up for that scenario. 😄 needs to be life changing to me not i buy a grand worth and it goes up to 10k

 

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36 minutes ago, longgone said:

 

a punt yes but not at the price now, surely to gain maximum profit the VI`s will manipulate the price to virtually nothing  pic up the scare sells then whack it back up. 

i would be up for that scenario. 😄 needs to be life changing to me not i buy a grand worth and it goes up to 10k

 

Ah yes the no-coiners dream solution, then VI's will drive it back down to $100 before then pushing it up to $100k plus, so all those that didn't take any risk and were wrong and two to three parabolic cycles can get back in again and profit. 

Good luck, the boat has sailed, doubt we will ever see below $3k again.

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7 minutes ago, markyh said:

 

Good luck, the boat has sailed, doubt we will ever see below $3k again.

possibly the same as seeing 20k again. who knows. 

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3 hours ago, longgone said:

what can you do with crypto  apart from take space up on the usb stick. 

Send money across the world directly peer to peer without relying on a centralised third party.

Store money yourself digitally without relying on a centralised third party.

Be sure that your money cannot be inflated beyond the predetermined rules of the protocol next time the governments of the world hit a financial crisis.

And these are the basics. I’m not even going into the possibilities with smart contracts, multi-sig, or concepts like tracking real life ownership with certain coins, etc.

To me, that doesn’t translate to a value of nil. But it’s not decided by us. We can only wait and see what value the market places on it.

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27 minutes ago, dannyf said:

Send money across the world directly peer to peer without relying on a centralised third party.

Store money yourself digitally without relying on a centralised third party.

Be sure that your money cannot be inflated beyond the predetermined rules of the protocol next time the governments of the world hit a financial crisis.

And these are the basics. I’m not even going into the possibilities with smart contracts, multi-sig, or concepts like tracking real life ownership with certain coins, etc.

To me, that doesn’t translate to a value of nil. But it’s not decided by us. We can only wait and see what value the market places on it.

Thats all great but if 1 BTC is worth 1p in fiat it means nothing. 

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8 hours ago, dannyf said:

Send money across the world directly peer to peer without relying on a centralised third party.

Store money yourself digitally without relying on a centralised third party.

Be sure that your money cannot be inflated beyond the predetermined rules of the protocol next time the governments of the world hit a financial crisis.

And these are the basics. I’m not even going into the possibilities with smart contracts, multi-sig, or concepts like tracking real life ownership with certain coins, etc.

To me, that doesn’t translate to a value of nil. But it’s not decided by us. We can only wait and see what value the market places on it.

To be fair, the accusation was not it has a VAULE of nil (which Bitcoin clearly doesn't - the current market value is around $8k) but that it had an INTRINSIC value of nil.  This I think is fair, since Bitcoin doesn't have any other use EXCEPT as money.

However, it's also true of all fiat currencies too - the intrinsic value of a digital £1 is also nil (the intrinsic value of £1 coin is very fractionally non-zero since it's made of metal that you could melt down and use for something else, but still basically nil).

This is in comparison to commodity money (things like gold, silver etc) which have an INTRINSIC value because they can be used for other things in addition to their use as money.  

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1 hour ago, scottbeard said:

To be fair, the accusation was not it has a VAULE of nil (which Bitcoin clearly doesn't - the current market value is around $8k) but that it had an INTRINSIC value of nil.  This I think is fair, since Bitcoin doesn't have any other use EXCEPT as money.

However, it's also true of all fiat currencies too - the intrinsic value of a digital £1 is also nil (the intrinsic value of £1 coin is very fractionally non-zero since it's made of metal that you could melt down and use for something else, but still basically nil).

This is in comparison to commodity money (things like gold, silver etc) which have an INTRINSIC value because they can be used for other things in addition to their use as money.  

agree with all those points apart from one point you overlooked. if bitcoins price went to zero tomorrow morning would the world change at all ? sure a few hodlers and rich that have invested in the technology may lose some money but the plates will keep spinning. Now if paper fiat and digital fiat went to zero tomorrow you will have anarchy and blood on the streets total social and systematic failure.  fiat`s intrinsic value is belief and trust. "i promise to pay the bearer" 

Thing is bitcoin needs fiat much more than fiat needs bitcoin.  no fiat no where to spend your BTC as everything else would fail.

 Parasite kills host parasite dies, much better for both to exist. 

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23 minutes ago, longgone said:

agree with all those points apart from one point you overlooked. if bitcoins price went to zero tomorrow morning would the world change at all ? sure a few hodlers and rich that have invested in the technology may lose some money but the plates will keep spinning. Now if paper fiat and digital fiat went to zero tomorrow you will have anarchy and blood on the streets total social and systematic failure.  fiat`s intrinsic value is belief and trust. "i promise to pay the bearer" 

Thing is bitcoin needs fiat much more than fiat needs bitcoin.  no fiat no where to spend your BTC as everything else would fail.

 Parasite kills host parasite dies, much better for both to exist. 

You don't need fiat to spend Bitcoin. fiat relies on belief in the system and when that begins to erode from endless money printing and ever larger boom and bust debt cycles people will naturally seek out harder forms of money. We've seen it in Venezuela, we've seen it in Zimbabwe and India, where Crypto is used for daily essentials and often trades at a premium compared to the rest of the world because of its utility. Let's not get so complacent that we think this could never happen here.

 

We're also starting to see Bitcoin being held in reserve by national governments in very large amounts.

https://beincrypto.com/bulgaria-betting-on-bitcoin-holds-over-200000-btc-in-reserve/

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29 minutes ago, JawKnee said:

You don't need fiat to spend Bitcoin. fiat relies on belief in the system and when that begins to erode from endless money printing and ever larger boom and bust debt cycles people will naturally seek out harder forms of money. We've seen it in Venezuela, we've seen it in Zimbabwe and India, where Crypto is used for daily essentials and often trades at a premium compared to the rest of the world because of its utility. Let's not get so complacent that we think this could never happen here.

 

We're also starting to see Bitcoin being held in reserve by national governments in very large amounts.

https://beincrypto.com/bulgaria-betting-on-bitcoin-holds-over-200000-btc-in-reserve/

imagine the UK like Zimbabwe  i think worrying about where you can spend bitcoin is the last think on my mind LOL

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9 hours ago, longgone said:

agree with all those points apart from one point you overlooked. if bitcoins price went to zero tomorrow morning would the world change at all ? sure a few hodlers and rich that have invested in the technology may lose some money but the plates will keep spinning. Now if paper fiat and digital fiat went to zero tomorrow you will have anarchy and blood on the streets total social and systematic failure.  fiat`s intrinsic value is belief and trust. "i promise to pay the bearer" 

Thing is bitcoin needs fiat much more than fiat needs bitcoin.  no fiat no where to spend your BTC as everything else would fail.

 Parasite kills host parasite dies, much better for both to exist. 

No, that's just an incorrect use of the term "intrinsic value".

And fiat doesn't have value due to belief and trust, it has value because the government SAYS it has value.  That's what the word "fiat" means.  The government can at any moment decide it has no value - look at (for example) old £10 notes that the government can simply decide to withdraw on a certain day. 

I don't disagree with you, by the way, about your other points - I'm just trying to make sure dictionary defined terms are being used correctly.

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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