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The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

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5 hours ago, wsn03 said:

You're both trying to grab a big share in something that you think everyone will need, hoping in the process you'll be in the monopoly seat. You both claim you're trying to do something good.

If your hopes come true you early starters will have all the worlds power (refer to posts on previous page).

You're both the same...except one of you might have significantly more to show for it than the other 

greed and self interest is what drives systems forward. Communism doesn't work (as much as i would like it to). To have a self sustaining system to have to give people a stake in it, to be part of it. 

Yes some will become very very rich, but it prevents 99% of the populace from becoming slaves like we more or less are at the moment. No longer will you be able to inflate the monetary supply at will, or allow private banks to print money at will, then drive prices up of houses via lending, then charge you interest on the money you needed to borrow for a basic need.

I would rather money creation is taken away from humans and be done via a cold algorithm, no central committees, or greedy soulless banks.  

Why should zombie companies be bailed out? why should the young support the old when the old themselves have added very little value to society? 

a world with hard currency is more efficient, the rich would have an interest in keeping the rest of the populace in good conditions so they can buy goods, none of this excessive debt bull-shite. 

money creation is a means of control. fractional reserve banking has stalled humanity for years. At lest when communism was around capitalistic societies had competition, thus space race etc drove humanity forward.

all the money printing at the moment will just carry on into a bigger and bigger mess. There is no safety valve to reset the system, you can just keep destroying currencies value to bail out the inefficient, you can have whole generations not working as you can devalue all the savings of those who do work to pay for them. 

Bitcoin solves a lot of a problems and it is the future. Its only 9 or 10 months away from hitting its cycle low, although on a long enough time-line there is no bad time to buy bitcoin. 

The cat is out of the bag, bitcoin cant be un-invented, we are still at the extremely early stages of a world-changing snowball, at first nothing much happens for a long time, then suddenly everything will happen all at once.

everything that is driven up in £ terms, which has no intrinsic value other than its base functional value (houses) will crash down to their functional value in bitcoin terms. Companies (banks) whose sole purpose in recent years is just to leach of society will go bust. That safety valve i mentioned is bitcoin.

Life always has loosers, if your on this website and your not in your late 30's or below then unless you had some extraordinary back luck you also fall into that looser category, you could easily of bought when it was much much cheaper but you chickened out. Dont let the same thing happen with Bitcoin and be left behind. 

The young value bitcoin, they have been at the poo-end of the stick of the effects of boomers, zombie companies, parasitic banks, and just like the world is much more digital, the days of a riots on the streets have long since passed due to excess camera and online tracking. Bitcoin is the bloodless revolution. Its far more effective than burning down a few banks, its completely removes the golden goose from the banks. It bypassed the whole money creation system we live under.

It re-writes the rules. Changes the game completely.

Bitcoin as an invention is like many paradigm changing inventions, those who have imagination can see where its going to end up, the luddites are left in the past. You either move with the times or get left wondering where you went wrong.

Eventually people will stop saving in fiat, shares will be priced in satoshis, at the moment it only takes maybe 20 years for the value of fiat to halve, when bitcoin grows it wont be 20 years anymore, more like 2 years. 

the booms and busts of bitcoin are to be expected for such low quantities of available bitcoin, as people struggle to access value and full blown manias start. That will be the case for many more years yet, we will see a cycle bottom come summer 2019 and another huge mania phase. But the growth is still there, and the growth when averaged out is still extraordinary, the resources going into bitcoin are not small, this is not some flash in the pan. this is not a worthless alt. Bitcoin will simmer away for many years yet. And fiat will start to lose its value at a faster and faster rate.

what would that look like? well and endless march upwards in bitcoins value, which suddenly accelerates and you find your years wages struggle to buy basics anymore in the shops, and houses suddenly are 1/10 of their asking price. 

Everything is in place for the huge economic change that bitcoin will force,  it just needs time now. 

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8 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

greed and self interest is what drives systems forward. Communism doesn't work (as much as i would like it to). To have a self sustaining system to have to give people a stake in it, to be part of it. 

Yes some will become very very rich, but it prevents 99% of the populace from becoming slaves like we more or less are at the moment. No longer will you be able to inflate the monetary supply at will, or allow private banks to print money at will, then drive prices up of houses via lending, then charge you interest on the money you needed to borrow for a basic need.

I would rather money creation is taken away from humans and be done via a cold algorithm, no central committees, or greedy soulless banks.  

Why should zombie companies be bailed out? why should the young support the old when the old themselves have added very little value to society? 

a world with hard currency is more efficient, the rich would have an interest in keeping the rest of the populace in good conditions so they can buy goods, none of this excessive debt bull-shite. 

money creation is a means of control. fractional reserve banking has stalled humanity for years. At lest when communism was around capitalistic societies had competition, thus space race etc drove humanity forward.

all the money printing at the moment will just carry on into a bigger and bigger mess. There is no safety valve to reset the system, you can just keep destroying currencies value to bail out the inefficient, you can have whole generations not working as you can devalue all the savings of those who do work to pay for them. 

Bitcoin solves a lot of a problems and it is the future. Its only 9 or 10 months away from hitting its cycle low, although on a long enough time-line there is no bad time to buy bitcoin. 

The cat is out of the bag, bitcoin cant be un-invented, we are still at the extremely early stages of a world-changing snowball, at first nothing much happens for a long time, then suddenly everything will happen all at once.

everything that is driven up in £ terms, which has no intrinsic value other than its base functional value (houses) will crash down to their functional value in bitcoin terms. Companies (banks) whose sole purpose in recent years is just to leach of society will go bust. That safety valve i mentioned is bitcoin.

Life always has loosers, if your on this website and your not in your late 30's or below then unless you had some extraordinary back luck you also fall into that looser category, you could easily of bought when it was much much cheaper but you chickened out. Dont let the same thing happen with Bitcoin and be left behind. 

The young value bitcoin, they have been at the poo-end of the stick of the effects of boomers, zombie companies, parasitic banks, and just like the world is much more digital, the days of a riots on the streets have long since passed due to excess camera and online tracking. Bitcoin is the bloodless revolution. Its far more effective than burning down a few banks, its completely removes the golden goose from the banks. It bypassed the whole money creation system we live under.

It re-writes the rules. Changes the game completely.

Bitcoin as an invention is like many paradigm changing inventions, those who have imagination can see where its going to end up, the luddites are left in the past. You either move with the times or get left wondering where you went wrong.

Eventually people will stop saving in fiat, shares will be priced in satoshis, at the moment it only takes maybe 20 years for the value of fiat to halve, when bitcoin grows it wont be 20 years anymore, more like 2 years. 

the booms and busts of bitcoin are to be expected for such low quantities of available bitcoin, as people struggle to access value and full blown manias start. That will be the case for many more years yet, we will see a cycle bottom come summer 2019 and another huge mania phase. But the growth is still there, and the growth when averaged out is still extraordinary, the resources going into bitcoin are not small, this is not some flash in the pan. this is not a worthless alt. Bitcoin will simmer away for many years yet. And fiat will start to lose its value at a faster and faster rate.

what would that look like? well and endless march upwards in bitcoins value, which suddenly accelerates and you find your years wages struggle to buy basics anymore in the shops, and houses suddenly are 1/10 of their asking price. 

Everything is in place for the huge economic change that bitcoin will force,  it just needs time now. 

...at least the surviving BTL landords will have something to live in 

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Just now, wsn03 said:

...at least the surviving BTL landords will have something to live in 

banks will of called in their debt long before their debt became worthless. 

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8 hours ago, wsn03 said:

You're both trying to grab a big share in something that you think everyone will need, hoping in the process you'll be in the monopoly seat. You both claim you're trying to do something good.

If your hopes come true you early starters will have all the worlds power (refer to posts on previous page).

You're both the same...except one of you might have significantly more to show for it than the other 

Not true. I bought bitcoin years ago because I loved the innovative technology. I didnt buy it as an investment.

But anyway, it sounds like you are against any kind of investment (where you expect someone to pay more for something in future). Is your pension all in cash?

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4 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

greed and self interest is what drives systems forward. Communism doesn't work (as much as i would like it to).

... 

At lest when communism was around capitalistic societies had competition, thus space race etc drove humanity forward.

Strikes me there's a contradiction in your argument.

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4 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Bitcoin as an invention is like many paradigm changing inventions, those who have imagination can see where its going to end up, the luddites are left in the past. You either move with the times or get left wondering where you went wrong.

Eventually people will stop saving in fiat, shares will be priced in satoshis, at the moment it only takes maybe 20 years for the value of fiat to halve, when bitcoin grows it wont be 20 years anymore, more like 2 years. 

The problem for me here is that blockchain, and cryptocurrency in general, are the true "paradigm changers".  Bitcoin might be the current frontrunner, but how can you be sure it will remain so?

For example, when the internet first took off in the mid-late 90s, everyone used Yahoo and AltaVista as their search engines at first, and Netscape Navigator was the most popular browser.  Fast forward to today, and whilst the internet has soared in usage and frankly been one of the greatest "paradigm changers" in history, most of those early "big names" have disappeared.  

I have never been comfortable with fiat money as a system, ever since I learned as a teenager that fiat money does not, in fact, meet the criteria for definition as "money" in economics.

But I find it harder to be sure that bitcoin is the long term successor.  It seems to me more likely that bitcoin is what demonstrates the concept, and ends up being the "Alta Vista" of the cryptocurrency world, with the "Google" yet to be invented...

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3 hours ago, scottbeard said:

The problem for me here is that blockchain, and cryptocurrency in general, are the true "paradigm changers".  Bitcoin might be the current frontrunner, but how can you be sure it will remain so?

For example, when the internet first took off in the mid-late 90s, everyone used Yahoo and AltaVista as their search engines at first, and Netscape Navigator was the most popular browser.  Fast forward to today, and whilst the internet has soared in usage and frankly been one of the greatest "paradigm changers" in history, most of those early "big names" have disappeared.  

I have never been comfortable with fiat money as a system, ever since I learned as a teenager that fiat money does not, in fact, meet the criteria for definition as "money" in economics.

But I find it harder to be sure that bitcoin is the long term successor.  It seems to me more likely that bitcoin is what demonstrates the concept, and ends up being the "Alta Vista" of the cryptocurrency world, with the "Google" yet to be invented...

It’s definitely something to consider and be wary of. However, on the other side of the coin, tcp/ip is still used today. IPv6 is not yet widespread yet but allows further scaling. To draw comparisons I’d say bitcoin is more like tcp/ip. Once you have a true widespread store of and easily transferable value, things can be built on top of that. And when it has the network effect of the vast majority of users, it’s difficult to change even if you want to (like ipv4 to ipv6)

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13 hours ago, dannyf said:

Not true. I bought bitcoin years ago because I loved the innovative technology. I didnt buy it as an investment.

But anyway, it sounds like you are against any kind of investment (where you expect someone to pay more for something in future). Is your pension all in cash?

I love the rational thinking here - I point out something obvious therefore I dont like investments that make money (or you too for that matter) 😆

I like most investments that make me money, however in thst case Im in it for the money, I dont pretend to be saving the world at the same time by sitting on an asset that does nothing.

I also try to promote industry that leads to a wider benefit to society than just one person taking assets that other people need or that don't actually do anything.

Holders of cryptos are just speculators, just like holders of BTL property. Both claim they're doing something good for society, wheras all they're doing is trying to hold a growing asset. I struggle to see the difference because their positions are identical. They both want to fold a finite resource and sit on it, hoping everyone elses need for it will put them in a better off position than all the latecomers.

I struggle calling a computer generated number an "asset".

The moral high ground is amusing

Edited by wsn03

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16 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

banks will of called in their debt long before their debt became worthless. 

You assume all BTL investors are mortgaged to the eyeballs - there are many who are not. 

Property is supported by VIs on a global scale. Crypto is not.

The property will still exist long after any crash. The digital numbers will too, but without value you can do what with them? Property can at least be lived in.

 

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Some great debates going on here. Ultimately we are all on the same side with regards to fighting against a corrupt fiat system (xrp, bitcoin, ethereum whatever).

I vote against it by turning my £ into crypto whenever I can and then trying to improve the use case argument. Chicken and egg situation. I believe that fiat currency days are numbered. 

Unfortunately I've no one to vote for politically and any acts against the financial system would put me in jail. Therefore I just try to eliminate the £ from my life where I can. 

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On 24/09/2018 at 16:40, dugsbody said:

You've already used that one.

That's a propaganda site, designed to promote your coin. And despite your propaganda, we still don't have a firm using XRP nor even stating their intention to do so.

Hi Dugsbody. No sooner said than happening. First firms on the planet to use XRP to settle international payments. Looks like it is a year and half ahead of where even I thought!

https://ripple.com/insights/ripple-highlights-record-year-xrapid-now-commercially-available/

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On 27/09/2018 at 05:01, Acid In The Punch Bowl said:

Can we hold you to that? Run along to the existing and busy XRP thread and we'll see you back here at the end of next year. Byeeee

No need to wait that long as it turns out fella. https://ripple.com/insights/ripple-highlights-record-year-xrapid-now-commercially-available/

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58 minutes ago, Acid In The Punch Bowl said:

I think you posted in the wrong thread by mistake. This is the XRP thread:

 

I'm long on bitcoin and we should all be celebrating XRPs success. A cryptocurrency finally being used for international payments. It's great for the whole community moving forward. Things are beginning to change. Lots more to come from XRP moving forward too.

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9 hours ago, dragging boot straps said:

I'm long on bitcoin and we should all be celebrating XRPs success. 

Aye, I hold both handful of Bitcoin and nearly 4k XRP. Excluding Tether and Monero I just need some Stellar and Cardarno to complete my top ten holdings. Hopefully if I can get Ethereum into my pension this month via an ETN I can trade my crypto holding of ETH for Stellar and then also trade 50% of my remain LTC for Cardarno. Then I will hold all the top 11 Crypto except Tether and Monero.

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On 30/09/2018 at 22:30, scottbeard said:

The problem for me here is that blockchain, and cryptocurrency in general, are the true "paradigm changers".  Bitcoin might be the current frontrunner, but how can you be sure it will remain so?

......

But I find it harder to be sure that bitcoin is the long term successor.  It seems to me more likely that bitcoin is what demonstrates the concept, and ends up being the "Alta Vista" of the cryptocurrency world, with the "Google" yet to be invented...

Digital scarceness requires a general agreement on the thing to be valued, it cannot work if value flows massively between currencies. If bitcoin is overtaken then the glory of its successor will be short lived as noone will ever trust a cypto currency as a store of value ever again. So we have one shot at this, its bitcoin or nothing. This is an experiment in socio-economics, we needed Byzantine Fault Tolerance to be invented to enable it but that is done now,  the various enhancements on that are optional, we have our "wheel", there will never be a better shaped wheel than a round one.

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14 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

Digital scarceness requires a general agreement on the thing to be valued, it cannot work if value flows massively between currencies. If bitcoin is overtaken then the glory of its successor will be short lived as noone will ever trust a cypto currency as a store of value ever again. So we have one shot at this, its bitcoin or nothing.

Exactly. That’s why those who claim they are supporting crypto for the greater good by buying alts are talking ******. 

alts are a threat to the world changing properties of bitcoin, alt buyers are just gamblers hoping to make a quick buck. it’s really dishonest to say they believe in making the world a better place while buying alts. They are not. 

its either bitcoin or bust, that’s the truth of the situation. 

Ifpeople wish to have some exposure to alts for the pump and dumps that’s fine, we all like a gamble now and then. but to buy alts without holding a main share of their crypto wealth in bitcoin is actually quite harmful. they are eroding some value of bitcoin, and thus alt buyers are as bad as fiat pumpers and central bankers. 

those who buy alts are as bad as those who pump up house prices, or take on excessive debt. they are supporters of the current system. They are helping to keep us all debt slaves.

bitcoin holders as a whole will change the world for the better, force zombie companies to go bust, clear the banks away, give the young a better future, bitcoin holders may well be a wide mix of speculators and idealists, but it doesn’t matter, that’s required to make the world a better place. 

thankfully the conviction that’s the original holders like myself have is something pretty strong, we will hold. that’s not a conviction you will find in alt buyers. 

Yeah that’s fine you want to buy alts. But you can’t be hopefully for bitcoins future while also knowingly undermining it for your own greed. 

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20 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Exactly. That’s why those who claim they are supporting crypto for the greater good by buying alts are talking ******. 

alts are a threat to the world changing properties of bitcoin, alt buyers are just gamblers hoping to make a quick buck. it’s really dishonest to say they believe in making the world a better place while buying alts. They are not. 

its either bitcoin or bust, that’s the truth of the situation. 

 

Nonsense.

Bitcoin Core is out of date technology that will get replaced in due course- it goes obsolete as soon as the first Quantum Computing hack happens. I reckon this will be by 2023.  It will be 2028 before QC is starting to mainstream, but BTC will be worthless long before then.

 

 

 

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what a load of useless drivel.  

 

Human nature is the number one currency and that is greed it can never be altered.  May as well call it greed coin, by investing in greed coin i will be securing the future of the victims and losers that did not invest in greed coin from its introduction. however i am happy to part with some of my greed coin for 10000x more than i paid for it as i will be saving the planet with greed coin. all hail greed coin.  

 

BTL without a roof. 

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10 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Nonsense.

Bitcoin Core is out of date technology that will get replaced in due course- it goes obsolete as soon as the first Quantum Computing hack happens. I reckon this will be by 2023.  It will be 2028 before QC is starting to mainstream, but BTC will be worthless long before then.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, longgone said:

what a load of useless drivel.  

 

Human nature is the number one currency and that is greed it can never be altered.  May as well call it greed coin, by investing in greed coin i will be securing the future of the victims and losers that did not invest in greed coin from its introduction. however i am happy to part with some of my greed coin for 10000x more than i paid for it as i will be saving the planet with greed coin. all hail greed coin.  

 

BTL without a roof. 

Some people just don’t understand the concept of money. And some don’t realise that bitcoin public keys are hashed on the blockchain and immune to quantum. And I like the quantum dates picked out of nowhere, exactly like the nonsense ripple prices

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2 hours ago, dannyf said:

 

Some people just don’t understand the concept of money. And some don’t realise that bitcoin public keys are hashed on the blockchain and immune to quantum. And I like the quantum dates picked out of nowhere, exactly like the nonsense ripple prices

who benefits the most for the invention of anything ? look there and the true value will be found.

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13 hours ago, dannyf said:

 

Some people just don’t understand the concept of money. And some don’t realise that bitcoin public keys are hashed on the blockchain and immune to quantum. And I like the quantum dates picked out of nowhere, exactly like the nonsense ripple prices

Read up on Shor’s Algorithm!

Bitcoin is heading for $0

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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Just managed to add some cryptocurrency exposure to my Pension, via my Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP.  Happy days. Add the UK £GBP cash equivalent of roughly 1 Bitcoin and 14 Ethereum. 

Did this via a lot of research and the Swedish XBT Provider ETN products (exchange traded notes).  XBT products were added to HL clients in 2017. Mind you had to click a load of disclaimer boxes online to say you were a protrader and knew this and knew that, blah, blah. blah, i've been in Crypto since before they even knew what it was!!!  I picked the Swedish Krona SEK versions as i'm not 100% confident the € Euro will exist in 5+ years time.

So if you want some BTC or ETH exposure in a SIPP see if your provider supports XBT Provider , https://xbtprovider.com/products

ETN SEK unit prices are roughly 1/100th of an ETH and 5/1000th of a BTC, or in Euros 1/10th of and ETH and 5/100th of a BTC.

Now watch prices plumet down to $4k BTC. Not bothered I cant touch this money for at least another 5 years.

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1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Read up on Shor’s Algorithm!

Bitcoin is heading for $0

I explained this before. Shor's Algorithm can theoretically calculate a private key given the public key, but bitcoin private keys can remain hidden by sending all change outputs to new bitcoin addresses. A bitcoin address is a hash of the public key. There is no theoretical algorithm in existence for reversing a hash function. The public key is only revealed when coins are spent so if all change outputs always go to new addresses you'll never see a public key with any funds  to crack.

 

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12 hours ago, skrillex said:

I explained this before. Shor's Algorithm can theoretically calculate a private key given the public key, but bitcoin private keys can remain hidden by sending all change outputs to new bitcoin addresses. A bitcoin address is a hash of the public key. There is no theoretical algorithm in existence for reversing a hash function. The public key is only revealed when coins are spent so if all change outputs always go to new addresses you'll never see a public key with any funds  to crack.

 

Read this:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-can-fix-1375242150/

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