wsn03 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, evetsm said: Electricity that is wasted in places like Iceland with unlimited geothermal energy, and in areas of new power stations where industrial demand has not yet arrived, bitcoin provides paying customers to bridge the gap. That's a service to those local communities. Hillarious, even by your standards. The greed infested bubble is now leading to its chasers providing a "service". Ha ha ha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsm Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, wsn03 said: Hillarious, even by your standards. The greed infested bubble is now leading to its chasers providing a "service". Ha ha ha.... Yet another fact free rant. Up your game. If you can. Doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsn03 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, evetsm said: Yet another fact free rant. Up your game. If you can. Doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrufeshanul Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 13 hours ago, dugsbody said: Weird, I don't remember being asked not to steal your stuff. Why don't I come to your house and rob you since clearly you shouldn't go to the police as they're a shared resource paid from "theft". The libertarian view is patently nonsense and that is the reason it doesn't exist anywhere in the world. Perhaps you'd enjoy this: https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department No wonder you're in such a mess - I recommend you spend your time reading Nassim Nicholas Taleb instead: The opposite of reading is not not reading, but reading something like the @NewYorker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsm Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 The big mistake is believing libertarians don't want the rule of law. They do. They just want the law to be common law set by precedent, bottom up, not from some central dictat called govt. Libertarians usually want minimal and restricted govt, not no govt. The guys that want no law and no govt are anarchists. Although there are many subdivisions of them with varying shades of grey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrufeshanul Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, evetsm said: The big mistake is believing libertarians don't want the rule of law. They do. They just want the law to be common law set by precedent, bottom up, not from some central dictat called govt. Libertarians usually want minimal and restricted govt, not no govt. The guys that want no law and no govt are anarchists. Although there are many subdivisions of them with varying shades of grey. Exactly right. The only point of government should be to provide essential services which are not available through any other means. Instead we have a tyrannical system populated by idiots who have no understanding of the things they are interfering with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 58 minutes ago, evetsm said: The big mistake is believing libertarians don't want the rule of law. They do. They just want the law to be common law set by precedent, bottom up, not from some central dictat called govt. Libertarians usually want minimal and restricted govt, not no govt. The guys that want no law and no govt are anarchists. Although there are many subdivisions of them with varying shades of grey. Anarchists also want law. I thought most libertarians were anarchists really (certainly followers of Rothbard, even Mises tend to be anarchists). The trouble is that if you accept the need for government to provide rule of law it's hard to restrict it to that alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsm Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Libertarians are Free Marketers, and you cannot have a free market without contract and property law. A free market is not a free-for-all market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Two 1 hr candles closed above 9050, 1pm and 2pm. Hopefully the 4pm 4hr candle will close above too then it’s a wait for the daily candle at midnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 56 minutes ago, evetsm said: Libertarians are Free Marketers, and you cannot have a free market without contract and property law. A free market is not a free-for-all market. You can have these things without a central authority. How do you think law evolved? Or do you think law didn't exist until a government was formed to impose it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Anarchy and the Law edited by Edward Stringham is perhaps the best collection on this topic. Just google anarchy and law, legal order, private law society etc. and you will find many other references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsm Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Kosmin said: You can have these things without a central authority. How do you think law evolved? Or do you think law didn't exist until a government was formed to impose it? Yes. Common law. See my previous but one post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, evetsm said: Yes. Common law. See my previous but one post. But can the common law survive a state? Or will a state always eventually impose "law" of a different kind? History seems to suggests states destroy law just as surely as they destroy money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsm Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Kosmin said: But can the common law survive a state? Or will a state always eventually impose "law" of a different kind? History seems to suggests states destroy law just as surely as they destroy money. Without control of the money supply a state cannot exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 46 minutes ago, evetsm said: Without control of the money supply a state cannot exist. Many countries don't control their money supply. For example, countries in the Eurozone and many less developed countries which peg to the dollar. During the Gold Standard era perhaps even fewer controlled their money supply. But I'm confused as to where your argument is leading. I thought you implied you were a libertarian but not an anarchist. I thought you also hope bitcoin replaces fiat, because you want to remove control of the money supply from the state. So are you in fact an anarchist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonardratso Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 wolfie smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 21 hours ago, doomed said: I am afraid you are over assuming my position. I directly state I am not an idealist in the post you quoted. Again income tax in theft or slavery. There are plenty of ways for the state to raise money that are not so abusive. If there were, survival of the fittest would have seen one of these systems spread and kill off the worse ones. Is there even one such system in existence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 hours ago, evetsm said: Electricity that is wasted in places like Iceland with unlimited geothermal energy, and in areas of new power stations where industrial demand has not yet arrived, bitcoin provides paying customers to bridge the gap. That's a service to those local communities. You're wrong, and we'll see in due course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 hours ago, ThePrufeshanul said: No wonder you're in such a mess - I recommend you spend your time reading Nassim Nicholas Taleb instead: The opposite of reading is not not reading, but reading something like the @NewYorker. I'm in a mess? Have we met? It drives libertarians crazy trying to argue their point, because ultimately, the real world shows us who is right and who is wrong. The only way a libertarian society can exist, in theory, is in post scarcity and even then it probably won't. It'll be something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, dugsbody said: If there were, survival of the fittest would have seen one of these systems spread and kill off the worse ones. Is there even one such system in existence? I have no idea what you are asking here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, doomed said: I have no idea what you are asking here? It's off topic anyway. My point is that societies shape their own structure. If a libertarian structure was so ideal, I'd have expected at least one such system to exist somewhere in the world and, more, it should have crowded out all the worse systems in competing countries and be prevalent. It isn't. Because the libertarian system would be shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 You guys have been reading too much Ayn Rand. John Galt was a *****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, doomed said: I have no idea what you are asking here? I think he was trying yo imply that taxes should work to the efficient market theory, that in survival of the fittest (taxes) we should only have the most efficient ones (like LVT) and the least efficient should die off. Sounds dreamy but not real world. Labour want to means test universal benefits like Child Benefit and winter fuel allowance despite it being proven that the cost to do such an thing gains not net tax saving due to costs involved in means testing systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, dugsbody said: It's off topic anyway. My point is that societies shape their own structure. If a libertarian structure was so ideal, I'd have expected at least one such system to exist somewhere in the world and, more, it should have crowded out all the worse systems in competing countries and be prevalent. It isn't. Because the libertarian system would be shit. Next you will be telling us how governments have its citizens best interests at heart. Are you paid to post here or do you just prefere being farmed to being free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Only just over two hours to go and still over the 9200 recent high of 3rd feb. Hopefully it closes above that rate so it can have a go @$10k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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