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I've designed scalable encryption products before based on DES/3-DES using multi-million gate FPGAs. (Xilinx XCV6000). One had 32 of these FPGAs (got a bit hot).

A full chassis of our boards could brute force a DES key in 2 seconds. (much simpler than AES). It was designed for VPN use rather than code cracking.

I still have a couple of boards with StratixIIs (Altera Multi-million gate FPGAs). Hashing is pretty easy, I can probably find some old VHDL to do it.

Note to self: When time machine invented, nip back a year or two.

FPGA mining, how quaint :)

At the moment the Bitcoin network is a 3.6 Petahash/s ASIC monster

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Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see fami

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it. Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years

Bitcoin Cash can and will scale on chain. The technology advance within the next decade will allow it to happen with ease and always remain ahead of demand. What Core have done to Bitcoin is criminal

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FPGA mining, how quaint :)

At the moment the Bitcoin network is a 3.6 Petahash/s ASIC monster

What are you all talking about? :lol:

My local CeX seems to have a glut of s/h graphic cards (the ones with lots of fans on) which made me think for a moment.

Edited by aSecureTenant
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why would a rubbish DES algorithm cause you to extrapolate to SHA ?

I only ever worked out what it would do for DES out of interest. The same chip was also doing MD5, an earlier version of the SHA used for bitcoin and this would run at the same clock rate. I never considered whether hashes per second would ever be of interest.

DES/AES/MD5/SHA are all basically a load of bit shifts and XORs. Maximum clock speeds end up being similar with enough pipelining.

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There have been and still are huge efforts to both crack bitcoin and improve hash rate (SAT is most promising but will break group mining and the difficulty calculation so would last two seconds once it were know).

Bitcoin is ready for this as I already posted. It wouldn't be pretty as if this were an emergency they would need to fork the blockchain, but it'd be plenty survivable. Increasingly you're going to see off chain transactions anyway and a lot of larger amounts in cold storage.

Banks:

Coinlenders already pays interest but trust that at your own risk to say the least. Neo and Bee is a start up bank in Cyprus and a much more serious effort (they are working with the authorities and to comply with all local banking regulations). Their concept is safe deposits stored in bitcoin but paid in/out mostly or entirely in fiat, then making use of a fixed exchange rate or other account options for savings with interest. It's predicated on the price going up, which it would the more successful the bank is. Their hedging strategy must be interesting...

Another interesting economic experiment, not least because it's in a country with little to lose.

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There have been and still are huge efforts to both crack bitcoin and improve hash rate (SAT is most promising but will break group mining and the difficulty calculation so would last two seconds once it were know).

Bitcoin is ready for this as I already posted. It wouldn't be pretty as if this were an emergency they would need to fork the blockchain, but it'd be plenty survivable. Increasingly you're going to see off chain transactions anyway and a lot of larger amounts in cold storage.

Banks:

Coinlenders already pays interest but trust that at your own risk to say the least. Neo and Bee is a start up bank in Cyprus and a much more serious effort (they are working with the authorities and to comply with all local banking regulations). Their concept is safe deposits stored in bitcoin but paid in/out mostly or entirely in fiat, then making use of a fixed exchange rate or other account options for savings with interest. It's predicated on the price going up, which it would the more successful the bank is. Their hedging strategy must be interesting...

Another interesting economic experiment, not least because it's in a country with little to lose.

The big difference now from the last time the valuation was this high is that the infrastructure around bitcoins is growing exponentially and at the same time hundreds of legitimate businesses are offering butcoin payment options. China has approved tentatively. It is becoming entrenched with a growing vested interest base. This steamroller is getting harder to stop.

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The big difference now from the last time the valuation was this high is that the infrastructure around bitcoins is growing exponentially and at the same time hundreds of legitimate businesses are offering butcoin payment options. China has approved tentatively. It is becoming entrenched with a growing vested interest base. This steamroller is getting harder to stop.

It will not be stopped, or rather crypto-currencies will not be stopped. Even if they try to dumb Bitcoin down, through various controls, regulations etc, a fork or an alt-coin will spring up and gain support. This will be telegraphed by the market and will be recognised by the same supporters that formed the grass root support of Bitcoin.

The reason Bitcoin exists at all is because of all the shit that statism and its fiat currency is throwing at people. The same business case will re-occur, should the neuter Bitcoin.

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One of the downsides to Bitcoin is that there will be a fixed number of them and this will lead to hoarding. But would people do this? There's always the chance of a security flaw that could wipe out people's holdings (and we've had a few scares already), so they may get the urge to spend them and liquidate their earnings - I know I did with some of the fractions-of-a-BTC that I earned a few years back.

More likely the deflation will come from people losing passwords or forgetting about their coins. Perhaps a system whereby you have to move coins to a new address every so often could become mandatory. It wouldn't cost much (if anything) to do for the holder and those coins that have been dormant could be blacklisted and replaced with new ones. Although I'm not sure how feasible this would be though.

Who cares about hoarding? Who cares about deflation? Why should you?

Who is going to black list coins? How are they going to make transfers mandatory? Who is going to care?

This system exists outside of the direct influence of states and their governments. Sure, they can threaten people until they conform, but it won't stop people trading the coins as they see fit.

Remember, nearly 25% of global trade occurs on the black market. Additionally, those countries who embrace crypto-currencies will have an advantage over those who don't.

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I mined about 4 bitcoins several years ago via Guiminer- when others on my tech forum were buying ATi 5850s purely for mining on a speculative basis. Got fed up with my 4850 heating my bedroom, and canned it after the difficulty went up, and generally forgot about them.

But now they're worth about £300 and I'm keen to hang on to them, obviously! Saved my wallet.dat to multiple backup places, but now the bitcoin client crashes on my computer as soon as I run it. I daresay if there is a password it'll be my standard, relatively uncrackable one. So how do I get them back? Advice appreciated. My physical gold has lost 20% of its value since I bought it so I could do with a win! :)

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Do they hold customer's bitcoins in customer accounts, or are they transferable to a bitcoin wallet?

They are an exchange and they aren't trading for a few more days.

However, anywhere you buy bitcoin allows you to move them or there would be no point. The only exception would be funds that happen to invest in bitcoin, but then you aren't buying bitcoin anyway.

There will -definitely- be full Bitcoin banks. We may see the likes of coinbase becoming or being bought by a bank. Holding bitcoin is quite a security nightmare for most people but having the option is great, especially in some countries.

Bitcoin can easily new neutered still, at least for a while. Doing so may prove problematic long term, especially if some countries take to it. If cryptocurrencies were made illegal or tricky legally, the price would plummet. I don't think that will happen now but it could.

The china thing is a little overhyped. It's not clear enough yet but it's good that it has been allowed to continue. They do care a lot about money leaving the country tho so it could still get swatted. Alternatively, they could be playing a long term game against the dollar (which they hold an awful lot of, so that would be dangerous).

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I mined about 4 bitcoins several years ago via Guiminer- when others on my tech forum were buying ATi 5850s purely for mining on a speculative basis. Got fed up with my 4850 heating my bedroom, and canned it after the difficulty went up, and generally forgot about them.

But now they're worth about £300 and I'm keen to hang on to them, obviously! Saved my wallet.dat to multiple backup places, but now the bitcoin client crashes on my computer as soon as I run it. I daresay if there is a password it'll be my standard, relatively uncrackable one. So how do I get them back? Advice appreciated. My physical gold has lost 20% of its value since I bought it so I could do with a win! :)

Definitely hang on to them. It's like having a stock option on the most game changing startup ever formed.

Older clients use a different database format from more recent clients so I'd advise you to delete everything (except your wallet! Make lots of copies and put them on different media) and start again with the latest client. Downloading and verifying the blockchain will take a couple of days. If you don't want to download the blockchain you can export the private keys in your wallet to blockchain.info and use their web wallet.

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'kg' isn't a measurement of intrinsic value. It is just a metric used to measure weight.

If value is intrinsic, you should be able to give me an objective and uniform way to measure it. If you can't, then the value is subjective and saying that something has intrinsic value is just a tautology.

Stop already, I was joking! Hence my use of the :P! I'm sold on bitcoins and can see how they can maintain value in this crazy world we live in! What I really need now is an guide to how to buy and store the coins. I downloaded a wallet but not sure what file I have to back up to back up the wallet? Still not clear on the best place to them either?

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Stop already, I was joking! Hence my use of the :P! I'm sold on bitcoins and can see how they can maintain value in this crazy world we live in! What I really need now is an guide to how to buy and store the coins. I downloaded a wallet but not sure what file I have to back up to back up the wallet? Still not clear on the best place to them either?

Do an international or sepa transfer to Bitstamp.

Buy in bulk or spread buys over multiple weeks to average the price out. When it gets volatile, it moves a lot.

If you want a client, try electrum or multibit. If you're ok with using a web client but NOT storing your coins with a third party, use Blockchain.info. You can transfer your coins from Bitstamp to your wallet. Blockchain do not have access to your money, only your encrypted wallet.

If you use Blockchain.info, ensure you install their browser add on first and use two strong passwords (the second is for payments) and 2 factor authentication. The second password is very important IMHO as it makes various potential security holes useless.

Long term savings should go in a different address (and possibly wallet with a new password; a wallet contains multiple addresses) from money you spend. An address which has never been spent from is actually more secure from software encryption flaws such as we've seen from android this year, and you also won't be risking a virus nabbing your password if you aren't ever entering it.

Using all these methods, get backups of your wallet file and store them somewhere safe online. As long as you have used strong passwords then they won't be cracked even if someone got them. Do not ever lose your passwords. Your coins will be gone forever.

You can also look up paper wallets and shove those in a safe, though be sure the ink won't fade away if it's very long term storage! Paper wallets, with no associated digital wallet existing anywhere, are the safest means of storage if you are happy to use a safety deposit box in a bank. Though you may want two boxes in different locations.

And make sure you have no viruses on your machine!

(This whole security faff is why most people will just use a bank for anything other than loose change. Bitcoins are easy to use but storing them securely is beyond most people.)

Edited by miggy
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Stop already, I was joking! Hence my use of the :P! I'm sold on bitcoins and can see how they can maintain value in this crazy world we live in! What I really need now is an guide to how to buy and store the coins. I downloaded a wallet but not sure what file I have to back up to back up the wallet? Still not clear on the best place to them either?

It isn't so much about selling the idea of Bitcoins as it is about thinking things through from first principles. If we see gold for what it is and stop assigning it with magical connotations, it helps us to see clearly what Bitcoin is and is not.

I am glad you are embracing Bitcoin though! It is good to see more people starting to really get it and what this may mean for the monetary system in the future.

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Do an international or sepa transfer to Bitstamp.

Buy in bulk or spread buys over multiple weeks to average the price out. When it gets volatile, it moves a lot.

If you want a client, try electrum or multibit. If you're ok with using a web client but NOT storing your coins with a third party, use Blockchain.info. You can transfer your coins from Bitstamp to your wallet. Blockchain do not have access to your money, only your encrypted wallet.

If you use Blockchain.info, ensure you install their browser add on first and use two strong passwords (the second is for payments) and 2 factor authentication. The second password is very important IMHO as it makes various potential security holes useless.

Long term savings should go in a different address (and possibly wallet with a new password; a wallet contains multiple addresses) from money you spend. An address which has never been spent from is actually more secure from software encryption flaws such as we've seen from android this year, and you also won't be risking a virus nabbing your password if you aren't ever entering it.

Using all these methods, get backups of your wallet file and store them somewhere safe online. As long as you have used strong passwords then they won't be cracked even if someone got them. Do not ever lose your passwords. Your coins will be gone forever.

You can also look up paper wallets and shove those in a safe, though be sure the ink won't fade away if it's very long term storage! Paper wallets, with no associated digital wallet existing anywhere, are the safest means of storage if you are happy to use a safety deposit box in a bank. Though you may want two boxes in different locations.

And make sure you have no viruses on your machine!

(This whole security faff is why most people will just use a bank for anything other than loose change. Bitcoins are easy to use but storing them securely is beyond most people.)

There is definitely a market for secure storage. I mean in a Bitcoin address that can be funded and monitored externally too, rather than in a big banking pot (as with state money). I am sure this will come in time though. Maybe a wee device to do something similar will become common too.

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There is definitely a market for secure storage. I mean in a Bitcoin address that can be funded and monitored externally too, rather than in a big banking pot (as with state money). I am sure this will come in time though. Maybe a wee device to do something similar will become common too.

For sure multisig transactions will become a big deal. You'll use two devices to make transfers, and you'll also be able to pay a fee for a third party to also be able to sign for the funds should you lose one or maybe both of your keys.

There is a lot of scope within the system for different rule sets governing spent money, they are just not enabled yet. It needs to be much harder to steal or lose funds.

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I can't see how the mining pays yet people are investing huge $ in the hardware?

Decided to give it a go on my dual core Windows PC for a laugh.

Currently mining at 2265 khash/s with the CPU @ 100% (I'm using CPU at the moment as haven't managed to get the ATI Radeon working yet).

At that rate I'll make about 0.15p a year if I'm lucky.

I tend to have one PC running as a server constantly anyway, so the power usage isn't really an issue, but I think its a pointless activity on standard hardware.

Mind this bit of kit would earn me £25k per year (less hardware and electricity costs)

https://hashfast.com...ra-third-batch/

But don't you get a law of diminishing returns as the difficulty rate goes up?

I was thinking of getting some s/h hardware but looks like I'd need to get up to at least 440Mhash/s (perhaps a s/h Radeon 5850 to keep the h/w costs down) to stand much of a chance but even thats only £27 a year.

Update: Managed to get up 11 Mhash/s using graphics card GPU though its capable of doing more, but these look fun:

http://www.amazon.com/ASICMiner-Block-Erupter-USB-Sapphire/dp/B00CUJT7TO

Edited by aSecureTenant
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I can't see how the mining pays yet people are investing huge $ in the hardware?

Decided to give it a go on my dual core Windows PC for a laugh.

Currently mining at 2265 khash/s with the CPU @ 100% (I'm using CPU at the moment as haven't managed to get the ATI Radeon working yet).

At that rate I'll make about 0.15p a year if I'm lucky.

I tend to have one PC running as a server constantly anyway, so the power usage isn't really an issue, but I think its a pointless activity on standard hardware.

Mind this bit of kit would earn me £25k per year (less hardware and electricity costs)

https://hashfast.com...ra-third-batch/

But don't you get a law of diminishing returns as the difficulty rate goes up?

I was thinking of getting some s/h hardware but looks like I'd need to get up to at least 440Mhash/s (perhaps a s/h Radeon 5850 to keep the h/w costs down) to stand much of a chance but even thats only £27 a year.

Update: Managed to get up 11 Mhash/s using graphics card GPU though its capable of doing more, but these look fun:

http://www.amazon.com/ASICMiner-Block-Erupter-USB-Sapphire/dp/B00CUJT7TO

No, there's not much point these days unless you invest in seriously powerful kit. You could get one (or more) of these (slightly cheaper on ebay), but you'd still be mining pennies.

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Ive lost track a bit.

When I started a thread on these things, you could easily buy and sell bitcoins in the UK.

Then the market went ape, dealers were closed, and it all became a bit hard.

Can you buy coins for cash in the UK today at a trading market?

Thanks

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Ive lost track a bit.

When I started a thread on these things, you could easily buy and sell bitcoins in the UK.

Then the market went ape, dealers were closed, and it all became a bit hard.

Can you buy coins for cash in the UK today at a trading market?

Thanks

Yes, visit localbitcoins.com, bitbargain.co.uk, or bittylicious.com

You can arrange to meet people in person through localbitcoins.com as well as buy online.

Probably more sites, but I don't know 'em.

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No, there's not much point these days unless you invest in seriously powerful kit. You could get one (or more) of these (slightly cheaper on ebay), but you'd still be mining pennies.

Yes utterly pointless on PC even with a decent GPU. Managed to crank mine up to 14 Mhash/s which means... its not even a contender. Also getting stale/invalid now so its not actually mining anything.

Interesting though. Bit of fun.

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