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The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads


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1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

you must work for a bank!

I’m going to love reading this thread back in 10 years. Some people are going to look very silly, probably me to be honest.

theres not really a middle ground with bitcoin, it’s either gold 2.0 or it’s nothing. there’s no inbetween. 

Bitcoin's intended to function as privately created outside money, a legal replacement for govt fiat. Except that its legal status is contingent on the authority of parliament, and it's owned by a handful of Silicon Valley billionaires and vulture capitalists whose questionable business practices make the central bankers look like models of probity and trustworthiness. More importantly it does nothing to address the problem of privately created inside money, the root cause of the crisis. A failure on every count. 

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Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see fami

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it. Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years

Bitcoin Cash can and will scale on chain. The technology advance within the next decade will allow it to happen with ease and always remain ahead of demand. What Core have done to Bitcoin is criminal

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7 hours ago, markyh said:

Wow. Rush to the exit from the newbies the last 24 hrs. Biggest 24 hr move ever after the -13% drop before CBOE futures on Sat 9th. 

A whopping -£19800 drop, -19.5% , to £81400 , which takes me back to Monday 11th DEC the day after CBOE futures launched. 

Most importantly is we are now at the -30% level for BTC, from $20k to $14k. Will it hold here or are we heading for the 4th wave crash to $4000 BTC.  

Alts holding steady at 32% of the pot. Still HODL. I now expect floods of soothsayers to a[[ear and say they were right, the bubbles burst, or people who claim to know $20k was the top and the sold all their BTC and went into cash.

Ho hum.

 

more inclined to think this was the whales doing a short once the newbies got in....as we suspected would happen at CBOE opening on the 14th....maybe the CME entry was the actual trigger...CBOE was to prime the pump before the dump

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6 hours ago, adamLancs said:

Probably not, I hope it falls to $4000 personally that's when all this Bcash nonsense started.

Shame too, the market cap posted a $50 billion rise the very same morning all these Roger cultists crawled out of their holes and started pissing on the bonfire.

tech analysis says big $11500,and $10k support lines,if that doesn't hold it's down to $7800-8400(61.8 fib retracemet)

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17 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

And how did you come to that conclusion exactly ?

Bitcoin does nothing to address the creation of OTC derivatives,  asset backed commercial paper or MMMF shares in the shadow banking system. Hence the production of synthetic loans and repo remains a free-market casino where 1 unit of outside money can be leveraged almost without limit.

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2 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Multiple choice: how many of our I/Ms and Dealers have Bitcoin holdings, or are recommending it to clients?  is it a)  5%, b, 2%, or C 0%?

You do have a point about understanding the implications, I will go away and do more research on top of the reasonable insight I have into Blockchains, and the decoupling of Cryptocurrency storage and transfers from the current global banking infrastructure.

I am not upset, honestly.  I can't promise not to get upset though if I return here and demonstrate the insight I clearly currently lack, only to be ignored, abused or told 'ah yes, you do understand the implications, but you don't understand xxxxx, rinse and repeat.

 

Look into Ripple and their plans to vastly reduce cross-border bank-to-bank times/costs (around 4 seconds, negligible costs). 

As to who is and who isn't holding BTC, frankly....who cares? It's a store of value, an investor's "vehicle".  I'm interested in the real-world applications of other blockchains out there. 

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47 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

Seems to me that now BTC in current form is considered unlikley to f the future of currency, it is bit of a lottery ticket, with the prize being access to some future 1% elite. 

But this is confusing, as it used to be that decentralised crypto was a path to financial revolution and hostile take over of current institutions. 

Which is mad. Governments have lots of assets and power, control of currency being just one, then there is military, trade agreements, natural resources etc. The idea that some kids storing electrical gold is going to change teh world in the next 10 years is kinda nuts. 

Also interesting to see folk on here who in general favour value investing based on fundamentals, start speculating on assets without current value to society. 

Decentralized deflating money, does not need govt permission to exist.  Just as bittorrent file sharing did not need govt permission. It exists despite the govt's best efforts to banish it. People are able to freely interact, unless you believe in the Gulag state?

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1 minute ago, evetsm said:

Decentralized deflating money, does not need govt permission to exist.  Just as bittorrent file sharing did not need govt permission. It exists despite the govt's best efforts to banish it. People are able to freely interact, unless you believe in the Gulag state?

How very naive.......

 

Seriously.

 

The government will not, ever, allow tax evasion.

 

In any way shape or form. 

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4 minutes ago, kudukid said:

How very naive.......

 

Seriously.

 

The government will not, ever, allow tax evasion.

 

In any way shape or form. 

How very small minded. You also have a wet nurse ? 

Authoritarian govts ALWAYS collapse. And then who will look after you ?

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2 minutes ago, evetsm said:

How very small minded. You also have a wet nurse ? 

Authoritarian govts ALWAYS collapse. And then who will look after you ?

I haven't lived under any government for twenty years, I chose to get out of  the system.......

You are naive in the extreme to think that any government will allow it.

Ok if the government collapses you may have a point but that won't happen in our lifetime.  

 

Grow up.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

I’m going to love reading this thread back in 10 years. Some people are going to look very silly, probably me to be honest.

theres not really a middle ground with bitcoin, it’s either gold 2.0 or it’s nothing. there’s no inbetween. 

If bitcoin goes from strength to strength I don't think everyone will dump gold. If bitcoin collapses I think many early adopters will continue to believe it will bounce back. I don't see any particular time by which it must have failed or succeeded. I wouldn't be surprised if it remains volatile as people disagree on whether it has or is going to succeed.

9 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

Governments have lots of assets and power, control of currency being just one, then there is military, trade agreements, natural resources etc. The idea that some kids storing electrical gold is going to change teh world in the next 10 years is kinda nuts. 

Also interesting to see folk on here who in general favour value investing based on fundamentals, start speculating on assets without current value to society. 

I've asked previously how fiat will disappear given that it's twintopt (that which is necessary to pay taxes). People will always need to get hold of fiat to pay taxes, so there will always be a demand as long as there are taxes.

 

28 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

Also interesting to see folk on here who in general favour value investing based on fundamentals, start speculating on assets without current value to society. 

I think you are confusing several issues here. Value investing based on fundamentals does not have to be about value to society. If a company is earning a profit by producing something of value to a customer it has value, but it might also have a negative impact on society (e.g. by polluting or destroying social norms). Similarly bitcoin has value to people who want to transfer or store something of value (for example I think there has been high demand in countries like Zimbabwe, India and China as these people want to hide their wealth from the government, circumvent capital controls and perhaps ironically sometimes transfer to assets like US dollars or London property). Whether this creates or destroys social value and how much is a different question.

I'm not sure if speculating is the right word. People who mined bitcoin can be considered investors and people who bought bitcoin can be considered savers.

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13 minutes ago, kudukid said:

I haven't lived under any government for twenty years, I chose to get out of  the system.......

You are naive in the extreme to think that any government will allow it.

Ok if the government collapses you may have a point but that won't happen in our lifetime.  

 

Grow up.  

 

 

Poor boy.

Up to 1/2 the total internet traffic at any one time is bittorrent file sharing. Govt has gone to hell and back to criminalize it. Yet there it is. Still.

Oh sure, they may issue a decree and  ban it. But king Canute would have more luck.

China already tried....... And failed spectacularly.

P2P exchanges like localbitcoins just picked up the slack and bitcoin boomed

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Just now, evetsm said:

Poor boy.

Up to 1/2 the total internet traffic at any one time is bittorrent file sharing. Govt has gone to hell and back to criminalize it. Yet there it is. Still.

Oh sure, they may issue a decree and  ban it. But king Canute would have more luck.

China already tried....... And failed spectacularly.

What has bittorrent got to do with evading tax?

 

Ffs it's even illegal to barter!! 

How hard is to for them to shutdown exchanges for example?  Block websites? Yes there will always be ways around things but of the government, any government don't want you to do it, it will become very hard to do it, which sort of makes the whole premise null and void.

 

Unless they control it, then it's a goer.

 

Take them rose tinted specs off ffs

 

 

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6 minutes ago, kudukid said:

How hard is to for them to shutdown exchanges for example?  Block websites? Yes there will always be ways around things but of the government, any government don't want you to do it, it will become very hard to do it, which sort of makes the whole premise null and void.

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it.

Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years in prison but I just don't see it happening.

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3 minutes ago, kudukid said:

What has bittorrent got to do with evading tax?

 

Ffs it's even illegal to barter!! 

How hard is to for them to shutdown exchanges for example?  Block websites? Yes there will always be ways around things but of the government, any government don't want you to do it, it will become very hard to do it, which sort of makes the whole premise null and void.

 

Unless they control it, then it's a goer.

 

Take them rose tinted specs off ffs

I seem to remember banning Napster was the best thing to happen back in 2000. A number of companies picked up the slack and grew all kinds of technology off the back of that. Maybe that's just what we need, I'm all for it.

I don't really see what evading tax has to do with Bitcoin any more than it has to do with fiat. What is your point? That people are buying Bitcoin to evade tax?

Well if they are, they are in for a surprise. As soon as you use an exchange to withdraw any decent quantity you get hit with KYC like a truck. It's like giving a big "here I am" to the government. It's not the reason to buy into Bitcoin, and I doubt all those Coinbase users have tax evasion as their #1 priority when the IRS are already on their case.

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2 minutes ago, Errol said:

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it.

Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years in prison but I just don't see it happening.

the most obvious route would be to implement some kind of sales tax or stamp duty on each transaction,like shares.

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3 minutes ago, Errol said:

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it.

Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years in prison but I just don't see it happening.

I am not saying they want to stop it.

 

I am saying they will control it.

 

To think they would allow a currency to be outside of their control is laughable.

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