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alt-coins are a sea of red today.

As i have said several times people pump and dump them to get a good position in BTC. Silly to mess with alt-coins when you could of just gotten BTC instead. 

Bitcoin is not even main-stream yet, for most people its only just the first blip on their radar. 

Price action is scary. Massive massive growth, could be a blow off top, the final mania stage, but its eating through the price rises today. 

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Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see fami

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it. Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years

Bitcoin Cash can and will scale on chain. The technology advance within the next decade will allow it to happen with ease and always remain ahead of demand. What Core have done to Bitcoin is criminal

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44 minutes ago, adamLancs said:

I see a lot of big names weigh in with "I like Bitcoin and blockchain but not the price..."

"blockchain, not bitcoin" - I missed out on bitcoin and I'm sore about it.

"I really like the tech in this alt" - I missed out on bitcoin and I'm sore about it.

 

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35 minutes ago, markyh said:

Listen to Mike Novogratz, put from 1-3% of you net wealth in Bitcoin, or less, very low risk . I was way ahead of him in 2013, I invested (and Risked) 1% of my net wealth at the time (£2000 , via a leverages 0% 18 month purchase credit card , and a buy now pay in 9 months finance offer from Scan computers. lol). Over an 18 month period in 2013/14 to mine directly into BTC then in Alts into BTC. All my net

Could have lost the lot,  thought I had fooked up by not selling come early 2015. So just HODL. Once you go through it once, it bothers you a lot less.

Thank you, I will listen Mike Novogratz with great interest, I appreciate you sharing your experiences and well done on your 1% investment.

I do have concerns about Bitcoin as it was initially proposed as a system of decentralised payments - peer to peer (cut-out the banksters), however Bitcoin seems to have become a place to just park money to make a huge profit or the prospect of it.  It is not clear who is behind Bitcoin.  Given the huge and rapid price rises I find it worrisome  that there is possibly insider dealing going on for what is an unregulated market, a powerful cartel ramping up the Bitcoin price for pure profit and/or control to the detriment of the majority of bitcoiners.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!
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30 minutes ago, Eddie_George said:

Ahahaha! You think this forum has any impact on the price of Bitcoin?

So you've lost money on the IOTA pump-and-dump? Wholly deserved.

 

for those who bought IOTA probably best to flog on and get a decent position in BTC while you have a chance, if you have not already done so.

Who knows how this will play out, suddenly the central bank system has a pressure relief valve, and the results are pretty spectacular. 

At what price do central banks and governments act? £200k a bitcoin?

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17 minutes ago, markyh said:

I cant see the Government realising this until it's way to late, good for us though, would be nice to exit some Crypto into Fiat a few years time and get a 8% return on the cash savings, saves mucking about with shares for a 5% + divi.  Win win if your and early Holder.

Shares are going to be cannibalised by a transition into crypto. Watch out. Might not happen overnight.

Companies will raise funding through token sales and people will take direct control of their shares through distributed networks. No "too big to fail" holding everybody's money, shares etc. No "too big to fail" banks being able to leverage up on their balance sheet and cause a financial crisis. They won't have the toys to play Russian Roulette with anymore. It has basically already been happening with ICOs, but these are new companies. Existing companies will come on board.

Bankers are middle-men. In the new financial system, they don't exist. Middle-men, aren't required. People own their own money. They own their own shares. They make their own decisions. And they are protected from the unscrupulous musings of a select few who delegate wealth to one portion of a population over another, at great cost to society.

Edited by adamLancs
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7 minutes ago, Take Me Back To London! said:

It is not clear who is behind Bitcoin. 

Why does it matter ?, its open source and everyone can see exactly how and why it does what it does.

Quote

Given the huge and rapid price rises I find it worrisome  that there is possibly insider dealing going on for what is an unregulated market, a powerful cartel ramping up the Bitcoin price for pure profit and/or control to the detriment of the majority of bitcoiners.

Thats true, but less true over time as the market cap increases, also all of the alts are much worse than bitcoin in this respect.

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Just now, ThePrufeshanul said:

A BCash pumper?

Not particularly but as I said BTC and BCH are both derived from the original Bitcoin whitepaper.

i don't really regard the explanation of why BTC is rising as FUD - it's just my opinion. If anything I'm pointing out that BTC is getting closer to mass adoption as "ordinary" people and institutions are channeling money in. 

You may be right and everyone is super excited about the rumours of the upcoming LIghtning Network. I just think its unlikely that most of the people who have been raising the price from approx $5.5k to $15k in a few weeks -  are really that techno-savvy.

But whatever - our musings on HPC won't make any difference to the success or failure of BTC. 

It is useful to discuss crypto on this thread in a balanced and civil way - there arent many places we can still do so on the internet.

You mentioned Tethers, which is has come from one person who has issues with Bitfinex and has been seized upon by scammers such as Wright as a reason for why Bitcoin's price is rising.

I was talking about the massive moves yesterday, not the trend over the past few months.

It was the middle of the night in South Korea and Japan where a lot of the frenzied buying is happening, so it's unlikely to be from them.

As I said, the FOMO amplified the move.

ether.thumb.png.f55f2edc08aae8f9b8eeb88b2aa2ab7c.png

 

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6 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

iota down 36% ouch, about to start loosing its ranking also, typical pump and dump. 

It was (with the benefit of hind sight) a very orchestrated pump and dump. If your doing to pump and dump an alt then you would pick one that hardly any exchanges actually trade (I think there are 3 that trade IOTA) in order to leverage the best total-supply:liquidity ratio to manipulate the price. This is one of the reasons that bcash's window for dominance is well and truly over - its one too many exchanges to do a controlled pump now, the other being of course than LN makes it obsolete.

Edited by goldbug9999
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1 hour ago, markyh said:

Tell me what % of Barcelona residents are without housing compared to the Total that live there?  And then what % of the world population Hold Bitcoin. Long, long way yo go yet.

Tell me what proportion of Barcelona residents need bitcoins? If your answer is higher than 0%, I'd like to see some working out

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15 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

alt-coins are a sea of red today.

As i have said several times people pump and dump them to get a good position in BTC. Silly to mess with alt-coins when you could of just gotten BTC instead. 

Bitcoin is not even main-stream yet, for most people its only just the first blip on their radar. 

Price action is scary. Massive massive growth, could be a blow off top, the final mania stage, but its eating through the price rises today. 

People are not ready for alts. I think it's pretty clear. I think they have a big part to play, personally, but you cannot ride the train that is parked in the station...

A lot of this is new to everybody. Even bankers, as clever as they think they are, do not have a big picture of the future. They play with the toys they are given, they are trained to toe the lines that are already drawn in the sand. They come out of University and head straight into pushing numbers and formulas and selling debt and they never had a reason to question any of it.  That they are so comfortable in their own little bubble, that their mindset is a huge disadvantage to them right now as they battle with technology overtaking them. Yes, they have the money to invest... but they do not know what they are investing in. They have no "bigger picture". This is why it is important not to completely forget about alts.

Take for example, the current situation whereby bankers are throwing all their money behind Bitcoin. We do not really want a world whereby all the bankers own all the Bitcoin.Why replace one hegemony for another? With crypto, people have the freedom to break free from all that. Do not be pigeon-holed into the same world order but in digital form. Litecoin does exactly the same thing, as do tens of other cryptos. Even Lightning network, which will take us up a gear, can be run on these alts.

For me, the fact that the existing banking system is so archaic and clunky, more than 20 years after Bill Gates put a PC in everybody's home, should inspire people to embrace freedom from fiat and look toward the open-source, distributed, transparent, nature of Bitcoin and blockchain, and crypto in general.

But as an investment VS. Bitcoin, until now, alts have served poorly. That much is fact.

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25 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

Why does it matter ?, its open source and everyone can see exactly how and why it does what it does.

Thats true, but less true over time as the market cap increases, also all of the alts are much worse than bitcoin in this respect.

I consider it to be fundamental to know who is or are  Satoshi Nakamoti  as I can then make a decision on the integrity of that person or entity and if I want anything to do with them.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!
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1 minute ago, Take Me Back To London! said:

I consider it to be fundamental to know who is or are  Satoshi Nakamoti  as I can then make a decision on the integrity of that person or entity and if I want anything to do with them.

Yep I share your concerns - still think we could all be pawns in a large monetary reset / one World digital currency :wacko:

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14 minutes ago, GeordieAndy said:

Yep I share your concerns - still think we could all be pawns in a large monetary reset / one World digital currency :wacko:

That's just it though, there doesn't need to be one world currency.

I mentioned the other day that it was "that old kook" Ron Paul who got me interested in Bitcoin and sound money etc in the first place.

He believed strongly in competing currencies. When you have one, there will always be a centralized power.

A distributed network of distributed network currencies.

As a programmer, personally, this makes perfect logical sense to me.

Edited by adamLancs
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3 minutes ago, GeordieAndy said:

Yep I share your concerns - still think we could all be pawns in a large monetary reset / one World digital currency :wacko:

best get in quick then.

 

as for alts - come on. we know they go up quick and violently down.

but i bought in during the pump. i'm not losing sleep with a 36% drop - come on guys - have you spent more than 5 minutes around crypto?

i'll check my returns this time next year, and will add to it if it is heading north (like i did with BTC many years ao).

IOTA is completely different tech than BTC - and worth a punt.

I remember DASH and Etherium at a couple of $$. I am not missing out again and IOTA is my first gamble on alts. One of many going forward.

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1 minute ago, GeordieAndy said:

Yep I share your concerns - still think we could all be pawns in a large monetary reset / one World digital currency :wacko:

Owned by Silicon Valley robber barons like Zuckerberg and Bezos, superintended by the NSA and GCHQ, and policed by the US Cyber Command.

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4 minutes ago, adamLancs said:

That's just it though, there doesn't need to be one world currency.

I mentioned the other day that it was "that old kook" Ron Paul who got me interested in Bitcoin and sound money etc in the first place.

He believed strongly in competing currencies. When you have one, there will always be a centralized power.

A distributed network of distributed network currencies.

1. Bitcoin is a commodity not a currency.

2. We already have a global, decentralised network of competing currencies, it's called the fx market.

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17 minutes ago, GeordieAndy said:

Yep I share your concerns - still think we could all be pawns in a large monetary reset / one World digital currency :wacko:

What's the playbook for this then?

Wait until everything and everyone has embrace blockchain and then crush it, and all financial institutions along with it?

Been watching too much Mr Robot recently makes this seem all too likely.

 

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32 minutes ago, ddd said:

Bitcoin hits $26,000 in Zimbabwe.

People question what utility Bitcoin has, well look at Zimbabwe. Zimbabweans are using it to protect their wealth from hyperinflation and mad men dictators 

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/tech-glitch-affects-bitcoin-orders-in-zimbabwe/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

No. Zimbabwe's new $ trades at an implied discount to US Dollars.

https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/bullionstar/hyperinflation-in-zimbabwe-its-back-but-maybe-not-for-long/

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Just now, zugzwang said:

1. Bitcoin is a commodity not a currency.

2. We already have a global, decentralised network of competing currencies, it's called the fx market.

1. Nope. How long have you been involved with Bitcoin? Nobody was calling it a commodity back in 2010, 2011. Bitcoin's value was always the promise of it fulfilling it's role as a currency. We had that debate back then, but it's store of value was always based on it's promise of utility.

2. That's not what I said. Decentralised network of decentralised network currencies. Big difference. Also, your example is about as far away from a free market as you could possibly get.

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Infact, I distinctly remember most of the Bitcoiners were quite bitter when the tax authorities decided to class and tax it as a commodity rather than a currency. You are telling me we have come full circle and now nobody cares for the currency aspect as long as they are making money?

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31 minutes ago, Take Me Back To London! said:

I consider it to be fundamental to know who is or are  Satoshi Nakamoti  as I can then make a decision on the integrity of that person or entity and if I want anything to do with them.

So if, for example ,you didnt like tim berners lee then you wouldnt use the internet ?.

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