tomandlu Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, guest_northshore said: People are trading non-BTC cryptokitties for $117k. I rather doubt LN is the BTC price driver. And aren't the banks getting into BC futures? What could possibly go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, guest_northshore said: People are trading non-BTC cryptokitties for $117k. I rather doubt LN is the BTC price driver. Explain why the vast majority of altcoins are down by 20%+ against Bitcoin in the last 18 hours then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Looool the Guardian are all over Bitcoin this morning. Should we ban it? Do we need faster payment systems? etc etc Ponzi this, ponzi that Perhaps Bitcoin has gone into overdrive because millions of people have realised it's their only chance of owning a home, ever. It seems to be the message. Now they are HODLers. They will never save faster than inflation and the kick in the teeth served regularly by the central banks. They will never be able to compete on a level playing field with those that burden themselves with a lifetime of debt. If you destroy savers they will find somewhere else to put their money. People no longer want to be confined to a system of servitude to a central elite. It's called a flight to safety. Look it up. It happened in every period of central bank monetary inflation in history when they debased the currency too much. This is literally the start of the end of the financial hegemony run by the central bankers. Somebody said Bitcoin was a monster. It is THEIR creation. And just like in the movies, a good monster always knows that their creator is expendable. With LN they are no longer needed. Visa, Mastercard, 2% fees, 3% exchange rates, 15% holiday rates, all the fiat systems will disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest_northshore Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, tomandlu said: And aren't the banks getting into BC futures? What could possibly go wrong? As long as they keep exposure to this stuff off their balance sheets and no clearing house implodes through risk concentration, then I don't care. But given that crypto funding originates from somewhere (probably banks) & it's looking a lot like people envy rather than bemoan bankers - who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdwave Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, tomandlu said: And aren't the banks getting into BC futures? What could possibly go wrong? Personally, I am following the crypto saga with great interest due to the possibility that it might provide the trigger for the almighty crash to reset the financial system that we have been anticipating for over a decade-it has all the necessary attributes- irrational exhuberance devoid of any fundamentals, critical mass (market cap of around 500 billion) needed to destabilise the entire financial system, large scale fraud and increasing institutional involvement. I hope we have lift off at the end of this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest_northshore Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Eddie_George said: Explain why the vast majority of altcoins are down by 20%+ against Bitcoin in the last 18 hours then. Because Bitcoin has the largest marketing budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Take Me Back To London! Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, tomandlu said: And aren't the banks getting into BC futures? What could possibly go wrong? Edited December 7, 2017 by Take Me Back To London! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, tomandlu said: And aren't the banks getting into BC futures? What could possibly go wrong? TBH I have assumed that there are a lot whales buying actual Bitcoins in the last few months since CME futures was announced, so they can buy CME Bitcoin Short positions contracts next week, sell off their actual BTC, drop the price a large % , cash in on the "cash Settled" short contracts. Then buy the BTC back and start again. Thing is to keep doing this the BTC price has to be made constantly higher and higher each time. If they haven't been buying lots of BTC, I cant see anything buy CME long Futures contracts making money, short positons could make many lose their shirts imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, markyh said: TBH I have assumed that there are a lot whales buying actual Bitcoins in the last few months since CME futures was announced, so they can buy CME Bitcoin Short positions contracts next week, sell off their actual BTC, drop the price a large % , cash in on the "cash Settled" short contracts. Then buy the BTC back and start again. Thing is to keep doing this the BTC price has to be made constantly higher and higher each time. If they haven't been buying lots of BTC, I cant see anything buy CME long Futures contracts making money, short positons could make many lose their shirts imho. Yes, I would never buy in at this level. There is a lot of mania right now and it nearly always ends badly for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrufeshanul Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, Eddie_George said: Explain why the vast majority of altcoins are down by 20%+ against Bitcoin in the last 18 hours then. Altcoins always go down when BTC goes on a bullrun. People switch out of their alts to ride the train then buy back in with a bigger stack. There is a lot of new money flooding into crypto - its been on mainstream media attracting hypre with its rapid rise. People are FOMOing. Interesting to speculate how much is due to practices with Tether. There may not be a crash - it may be an upswing in the adoption curve. Alternatively it could drop by 80%. If so, that will be BTC's big test. Will the new money pump more in if it drops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, guest_northshore said: Because Bitcoin has the largest marketing budget. WTF? It has no marketing budget whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, ThePrufeshanul said: Altcoins always go down when BTC goes on a bullrun. People switch out of their alts to ride the train then buy back in with a bigger stack. There is a lot of new money flooding into crypto - its been on mainstream media attracting hypre with its rapid rise. People are FOMOing. Interesting to speculate how much is due to practices with Tether. There may not be a crash - it may be an upswing in the adoption curve. Alternatively it could drop by 80%. If so, that will be BTC's big test. Will the new money pump more in if it drops? I see a lot of big names weigh in with "I like Bitcoin and blockchain but not the price..." Can't have your cake and eat it boys... crypto would have been consigned to the scrap heap a long time ago if it were not for the price rises. None of these guys were there to champion it when it was $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrufeshanul Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Very true - that's why mass adoption may rest on their reaction if Bitcoin has a huge drop. It was belief that BTC represented a new form of currency that would take power away from bankers and central government that played a large part previously in holding through the dips - even then there were (relatively) long periods where the value was static or dropping. Will the people pumping the coin (as well as tethers) replicate that? I don't think anyone knows yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Uh I have warned about this before. There is zero transparency on Tethers, and one Tether is supposed to represent 1 USD. But without the transparency you could be holding jelly beans for all you know. Be careful with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest_northshore Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, Eddie_George said: WTF? It has no marketing budget whatsoever. The marketing budget is you, and a clone network army of relentless invested sales pitches. This forum's as good an example as any. BTC centre stage. IOTA thread - banished to a sub forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Take Me Back To London! said: Not everyone wants to put their money into something that is too complicated, unregulated and with no money back guarantees of any kind. Listen to Mike Novogratz, put from 1-3% of you net wealth in Bitcoin, or less, very low risk . I was way ahead of him in 2013, I invested (and Risked) 1% of my net wealth at the time (£2000 , via a leverages 0% 18 month purchase credit card , and a buy now pay in 9 months finance offer from Scan computers. lol). Over an 18 month period in 2013/14 to mine directly into BTC then in Alts into BTC. All my net worth was in the family home at the time. Could have lost the lot, thought I had fooked up by not selling come early 2015. So just HODL. Once you go through it once, it bothers you a lot less. Edited December 7, 2017 by markyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, guest_northshore said: The marketing budget is you, and a clone network army of relentless invested sales pitches. This forum's as good an example as any. BTC centre stage. IOTA thread - banished to a sub forum. Ahahaha! You think this forum has any impact on the price of Bitcoin? So you've lost money on the IOTA pump-and-dump? Wholly deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrufeshanul Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Absolutely - I think Tethers are the main driver behind the recent pump which has then resulted in mainstream media coverage encouraging a glut of new money. Bitfinex are major players in this regard and i have consequently moved all my funds off there. LN may be a factor but its unlikely to be a large one. The people who know about LN or how it works are unlikely to have this kind of money to pump in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest_northshore Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Eddie_George said: Ahahaha! You think this forum has any impact on the price of Bitcoin? So you've lost money on the IOTA pump-and-dump? Wholly deserved. Ho ho. I haven't bought any cryptocurrency for about 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I find it ironic that half way down the Guardian's coverage of Bitcoin is this Quote Newsflash: UK house prices kept rising last month, according to the latest data from Halifax bank. Halifax reports that prices rose by 0.5% during November, leaving them 3.9% higher than a year ago. So everybody gets to keep drinking the punch, unless you don't own a house. In which case you have two options: Put in savings account for -negative returns. (oh come on, nobody is beating inflation, especially not on housing) Put in crypto for ????? possibly less, possibly 100x Why is it that people cannot see... TPTB are leaving people with NO option but to find an alternate way to protect the wealth that they have WORKED HARD for. It is not about people making unearned wealth. That is just a by-product of people trying to protect HARD-EARNED wealth in a system that punishes savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 This is going to be the catalyst that causes them to raise rates. A lot. Either they protect savers, or they will buy crypto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, ThePrufeshanul said: Absolutely - I think Tethers are the main driver behind the recent pump which has then resulted in mainstream media coverage encouraging a glut of new money. Bitfinex are major players in this regard and i have consequently moved all my funds off there. LN may be a factor but its unlikely to be a large one. The people who know about LN or how it works are unlikely to have this kind of money to pump in. A BCash pumper can never acknowledge progress, always has to spread FUD. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Well for example on Bitfinex, there is going to be a lot of fiat money on the sidelines waiting for a buying opportunity. People don't wait for big news like LN and then wait 3 days for a Billy the Slug Bank to OK the transaction and then make the trade. (Not to mention if it's weekend and you have to wait til Monday... such an archaic system is destined for the gutter) No. They have the money sat on the exchanges ready to pounce. Although having read the news, LN is still not here despite the fanfare. It is more about progress. It's getting closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, adamLancs said: This is going to be the catalyst that causes them to raise rates. A lot. Either they protect savers, or they will buy crypto. I cant see the Government realising this until it's way to late, good for us though, would be nice to exit some Crypto into Fiat a few years time and get a 8% return on the cash savings, saves mucking about with shares for a 5% + divi. Win win if your and early Holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrufeshanul Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 A BCash pumper? Not particularly but as I said BTC and BCH are both derived from the original Bitcoin whitepaper. i don't really regard the explanation of why BTC is rising as FUD - it's just my opinion. If anything I'm pointing out that BTC is getting closer to mass adoption as "ordinary" people and institutions are channeling money in. You may be right and everyone is super excited about the rumours of the upcoming LIghtning Network. I just think its unlikely that most of the people who have been raising the price from approx $5.5k to $15k in a few weeks - are really that techno-savvy. But whatever - our musings on HPC won't make any difference to the success or failure of BTC. It is useful to discuss crypto on this thread in a balanced and civil way - there arent many places we can still do so on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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