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NatterJackToad

The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

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I don't understand this. According to the safecoin.io website, "MaidSafeCoins are generated and distributed via the Master Protocol on top of the Bitcoin blockchain" and so is ultimately dependent on Bitcoin miners, block rate, etc, surely. It looks like a branch of the bitcoin Blockchain, as is being proposed for various altcoins.

hype arrives at the digital currency marketplace.

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I don't understand this. According to the safecoin.io website, "MaidSafeCoins are generated and distributed via the Master Protocol on top of the Bitcoin blockchain" and so is ultimately dependent on Bitcoin miners, block rate, etc, surely. It looks like a branch of the bitcoin Blockchain, as is being proposed for various altcoins.

MaidSafeCoins aren't SafeCoins. They are just a way to pre-order/invest in Safecoin (and therefore Safe net) prior to their release.

Safecoins themselves don't even use a blockchain.

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I have been investing in Darkcoin recently which improves on bitcoins privacy by tumbling all coins together on every transaction.

This makes it completely anonymous.

Think there may be growth in this one towards $10.. (already up to $4.5 from less than $1 a week ago).

Anyone else any thoughts on this?

I also bought MaidSafeCoins in the hope that the potential technology advancements send this one to the moon as well.

As for Bitcoin… there seems to be constant good news, but it won’t budge from $450. Rumours again of Ebay and Paypal implementing Bitcoin into their systems, which of course will lead to panic buys and insane price jumps.

I miss the 6 month rollercoaster! Waking up every day not knowing if you are thousands of pounds better off or worse was exhilarating!

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I have been investing in Darkcoin recently which improves on bitcoins privacy by tumbling all coins together on every transaction.

This makes it completely anonymous.

Think there may be growth in this one towards $10.. (already up to $4.5 from less than $1 a week ago).

Anyone else any thoughts on this?

I also bought MaidSafeCoins in the hope that the potential technology advancements send this one to the moon as well.

As for Bitcoin… there seems to be constant good news, but it won’t budge from $450. Rumours again of Ebay and Paypal implementing Bitcoin into their systems, which of course will lead to panic buys and insane price jumps.

I miss the 6 month rollercoaster! Waking up every day not knowing if you are thousands of pounds better off or worse was exhilarating!

if its anonymous, how the hell can you buy anything with it..delivery will out you.

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Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire gives demo of Circle, where you can buy/sell bitcoins without any fees, and insures them at no cost

this seems like it could be a huge step towards getting Mr. Average involved.

Edited by NatterJackToad

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I'd sort of forgotten about BTC. I still have a reasonable stash but sold quite a few a while back to buy a car. For some bizarre reason[1] BMW didn't want payment in BTC - which would have made the whole affair much easier. They didn't want cash either. And using a debit card for sums over £30k seems to involve at least an hour on the phone to an Indian call centre via a line that has all the audio quality of a 1950s ship to shore call in a force 9 gale.

[1] the reason probably being that they're not mental.

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Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire gives demo of Circle, where you can buy/sell bitcoins without any fees, and insures them at no cost

this seems like it could be a huge step towards getting Mr. Average involved.

lots of buzzwords...content?

Ive just filled out an application form for a public sector job...tons of key words, like facilitate, include, safeguard...just common sense really, but they have to have a new word for every thing.

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Nice 10% bump up yesterday at long last.. now can it push on past $500?

We really need to switch to bits though in my opinion.. no one wants to buy 0.5 of a bitcoin (noobs anyway) – but 500,000 bits? Certainly sounds more appealing.

Darkcoin has done me well over the last couple of weeks. From $1 to over $7. And with this altcoin actually bringing new tech along with it, I think it could push litecoin out of #2 position going forward.

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Nice 10% bump up yesterday at long last.. now can it push on past $500?

We really need to switch to bits though in my opinion.. no one wants to buy 0.5 of a bitcoin (noobs anyway) – but 500,000 bits? Certainly sounds more appealing.

Darkcoin has done me well over the last couple of weeks. From $1 to over $7. And with this altcoin actually bringing new tech along with it, I think it could push litecoin out of #2 position going forward.

Darkcoin is a bit pointless when Bitcoin already has stealth addresses and Coinjoin.

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Darkcoin is a bit pointless when Bitcoin already has stealth addresses and Coinjoin.

As you know, I want bitcoin to succeed and rise in value (on a bounce at the moment!)

But Darkcoin tech tumbles all transactions automatically.

Stealth addresses and CoinJoin is an add-on to bitcoin, as I understand it?

I think bitcoin will win the crypto race and be the ‘standard’. But if other Alts bring new tech they could flourish as well.

Darkcoin flirting with $10 each now! Almost topping litecoin.

Edited by NatterJackToad

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Marc Andreessen: In 20 years (creator of Napster)

For [journalists], the big challenge has been explaining what Bitcoin is to people. And I think we've always explained it as a currency, but does that — now that people know about it in terms of a currency, does that prevent them from [grasping Bitcoin's full potential]?

I have a lot of friends who are programmers. The programmers have always gone like, "Those [bitcoin] guys are crazy."

And then, almost 100 percent of the time, they sit down, read the paper, read the code — it takes them a couple weeks -- and they come out the other side. And they're like: "Oh my god, this is it. This is the big breakthrough. This is the thing we've been waiting for. He solved all the problems. Whoever he is should get the Nobel prize -- he's a genius. This is the thing! This is the distributed trust network that the Internet always needed and never had."

So, one of the challenges is you take people who aren't professional programmers or mathematicians and then you expect them to understand it from a standing start. And it's daunting. And so then it gets a word attached to it, like "currency" or whatever you want to call it, and then people think that it is something it isn't. And you have a sense of this, but it's a much deeper concept than currency. It's the idea of distributed trust.

So the business opportunity posed by this "distributed trust network" — as an investor, what do you see that you could potentially —

Hundreds or thousands of applications and companies that could get built on top.

Is this, like, a billions-of-dollars kind of industry?

Yeah.

Trillions…?

Yeah!

Digital stocks. Digital equities. Digital fundraising for companies. Digital bonds. Digital contracts, digital keys, digital title, who owns what — digital title to your house, to your car. Like for example, you get a digital title on a car, attached to a digital key, where you own your car on the Bitcoin blockchain and on your smartphone. The key for opening your car and starting your car is tied to that title. And if I sell you my car, automatically you get title, and you get the key that lets you operate the car, and it's all digital, and it's all unique, and it can't be cracked. You've got digital voting, digital contracts, digital signatures. You've got unique pieces of digital content. If you guys wanted to know exactly who had every piece of content you ever made, you can track that. It's this long list. And then every aspect of financial services: insurance contracts, insurance derivatives, currency exchange, remittance — on and on and on. It gives you a chance to basically go after this very broad category of online business in a new way. And, by the way, if we had had this technology 20 years ago, we would've built it into the browser.

E-commerce would've gotten built on top of this, instead of getting built on top of the credit card network. We knew we were missing this; we just didn't know what it was. There is no reason on earth for anybody to be on the Internet today to be typing in a credit card number to buy something. It's insane, because — which is why you have all these security problems, the Target hack and all this crazy.... And these high fees, this high fraud rate. It doesn't make sense online to have a payment mechanism that requires you to hand over your credentials to make a payment. That's just an invitation to fraud and identity theft. It's just stupid.

But we didn't have the better way of doing it. So we didn't know what else to do, and now we have the better way of doing it. Now, it's going to take time. We're quite confident that when we're sitting here in 20 years, we'll be talking about Bitcoin the way we talk about the Internet today. We just need time for it to play out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/05/21/marc-andreessen-in-20-years-well-talk-about-bitcoin-like-we-talk-about-the-internet-today/

Edited by NatterJackToad

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distributed trust will go down a bomb ( literally) in the Ukraine.

People dont trust each other...thats the reason for the crypto...but it seems IT cant be trusted either...and Fraud abounds.

Course, Andreeson is the same guy that thought it perfectly OK to steal other peoples work and profit from it.

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Well, I almost sound like I know what I am on about:

1 week ago re. Darkcoin:

I think there may be growth in this one towards $10.. (already up to $4.5 from less than $1 a week ago).

Sailed past $13 last night with a market cap of £58m

However, I can assure you it was just a guess based on the fact that it was cheap and actually offered something new (coin tumbling built in).

The question is now, is it still cheap? Or will it crumble?

My next guess – anywhere between $3 and $50.

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Well, I almost sound like I know what I am on about:

1 week ago re. Darkcoin:

Sailed past $13 last night with a market cap of £58m

However, I can assure you it was just a guess based on the fact that it was cheap and actually offered something new (coin tumbling built in).

The question is now, is it still cheap? Or will it crumble?

My next guess – anywhere between $3 and $50.

If I were you, I'd cash (most of it) out now. (I mean into BTC)

Edited by Eddie_George

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http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000281677

The video above is amazing. Not rumors, but the actual CEO of eBay saying that Paypal will incorporate Bitcoin and that he personally owns Bitcoin

What's everyone else’s plans pre Ebay/Paypal adoption and after the immediate announcement?

Pre – anything you put in now will probably double easily once the announcement is made.. however, it might never be announced, and it could go down in the meantime..

But what about immediately after announcement? Anyone else going to jump straight on to Bittylicious and ride the train?

Me personally, I put in a chunk I’m willing to lose every pay cheque, so will continue doing that.. but I’m willing to gamble quite large if that announcement is made and I can buy quickly afterwards.. I cannot see anything but months and months of solid increases as people slowly realise that bitcoin is now serious business.

This is a good watch as well, showing recent news and how the talking heads are all stumped:

Edited by NatterJackToad

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Oops!

Bitcoin down the Sh*tter then!

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/06/bitcoin-security-guarantee-shattered-by-anonymous-miner-with-51-network-power/

TL;DR

Someone's managed to obtain 51% network power. This is a catastrophic problem for a decentralised transaction system.

This wasn't supposed to be be able to happen. It just has.

Bummer.

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Oops!

Bitcoin down the Sh*tter then!

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/06/bitcoin-security-guarantee-shattered-by-anonymous-miner-with-51-network-power/

TL;DR

Someone's managed to obtain 51% network power. This is a catastrophic problem for a decentralised transaction system.

This wasn't supposed to be be able to happen. It just has.

Bummer.

To be fair though, that headline is very misleading:

Bitcoin security guarantee shattered by anonymous miner with 51% network power

GHash is not a single entity but a mining pool. https://ghash.io/

Thousands of miners have their equipment using this pool as it provides a consistent payout of btc. If there was anything untoward going on, these miners could quickly switch to an alternative pool.

Alternatives to these centrally controlled pools are already spreading, such as peer to peer mining: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool

However why would GHash attack the same protocol that is generating them profit? As soon as they tried anything, they might be able to double spend a few transactions, but this would quickly be noticed and people would immediately switch away, killing their business. I agree it is something that the community needs to be aware of, but it's not overly concerning.

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I don't know whether this is a problem or not - not knowing enough about how mining pools work.

If the contributors to the pools are just processing power *controlled* by the pool then it is worrying as the pool operator does control 51% and can kill btc. On the other hand, if the multitude of contributors remain independent then things might be OK.

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I don't know whether this is a problem or not - not knowing enough about how mining pools work.

If the contributors to the pools are just processing power *controlled* by the pool then it is worrying as the pool operator does control 51% and can kill btc. On the other hand, if the multitude of contributors remain independent then things might be OK.

Yes, on the one hand you could view it as the contributors to the pools are just processing power, being centrally managed and directed. However, if an attempt was made to subvert and manipulate the blockchain, it would be quickly detected and steps would immediately be taken to eliminate this threat.

A great example of this is what happened in March 2013 where we had a hard fork of the blockchain. On that occasion a block was found which was accepted by clients running version 0.8, whilst being rejected by older clients running 0.7. The chain forked due to older clients rejecting the block and continuing to mine, building on this chain. On that occasion the community quickly came together and two of the biggest pools at that time downgraded their clients back to version 0.7.

You can read about what happened here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0050.mediawiki

Obviously this is slightly different to an attack, however it does demonstrate how a future attack could be thwarted.

Edited by Ted

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If the contributors to the pools are just processing power *controlled* by the pool then it is worrying as the pool operator does control 51% and can kill btc.

That's exactly how a mining pool works. In general, it has to, in order to keep the contributors honest. The individual worker than finds the solution knows that they have found the solution to the "problem" posed by the mining pool. However, to stop them simply broadcasting the solution, the mining pool operator keeps the "problem" secret, so that only they can broadcast the "problem" and its solution.

A more technical explanation is that the a miner collates transactions broadcast by the network, calculates their hashes, and then hashes the collection of hashes (this "top" hash is called the Merkle root). The miner's job is to find a string (or nonce) that when concatenated with the Merkle root and then hashed yields a value less than a threshold. The mine operator incorporates a secret random transaction to themselves in their hashes, and therefore the Merkle root that gets broadcast to the workers. To claim the reward, the block must be broadcast with all the transactions, so that both the Merkle root and the mining "nonce" can be verified.

As to the 51% problem, it's somewhat overblown. 51% is the proportion of hash power where a double-spend attack is guaranteed to succeed. A successful double-spend is possible with less. For example, a miner with 45% of hash power has an approximately 90% chance of successfully executing a double spend.

In reality, what pool operator would kill their golden goose with a a double-spend attack? They wouldn't just kill their own pool, but they would kill their BTC holdings as well.

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The US government just sold $18m worth of bitcoin (Silk Road coins).

There were many bidders. They sold all $18m to one customer.

Does anyone else think this is the best news ever for bitcoin?

It legitimises it.

Also, the Winklevii Bitcoin Trust have just listed on NASDAQ under ‘COIN’.

Could we be seeing the real start of ‘going vertical’ any time soon?

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The problem I see with Bitcoin is large quantities of coins being held by so few people. If the system is meant to gain momentum by users of the currency perceiving it as a fairer way of making a transaction, then it fails in its distribution method. Once the coins have dispersed evenly among the population then it might become more accepted.

At the moment it feels too much like a ponzi scheme.

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The early adopters were lucky.

And took a gamble on new tech.

I wish I was a few years earlier to the rollercoaster than I was.

But the way I look at it – if Bitcoin takes off – we are still right at the very beginning.

For example, if Ebay / Amazon adopt it, I should imagine the demand will be huge and the price will double or triple overnight. And then steady growth from there on for many years to come.

And the Ebay CEO recently said they were considering / actively implementing it into their structures.

For less than £200 you can get 50,000,000 Satoshi’s (or ‘bits’) right now….

In a decade that could sound as ridiculous as making someone a pizza for 10,000 BTC’s – which happened a couple of years ago.

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But the way I look at it – if Bitcoin takes off – we are still right at the very beginning.

Indeed, If bitcoin achieves an adoption level of 1% of the population then thats about a 50-fold increase on todays level.

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