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The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads


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35 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Why would you do that ? I mean its one thing to swap your currency for something like the USD, which has some measure of price stability, but bitcoin is all over the place.

Why don't you learn about Bitcoin Beach or better yet ask an El Salvadoran what they think about using the USD? Ask them why they prefer to transact in Bitcoin. There must be a reason after all. 

 

P.S. I know the reasons but I'm not prepared to do the leg work for nocoiners anymore. 

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34 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Why don't you learn about Bitcoin Beach or better yet ask an El Salvadoran what they think about using the USD? Ask them why they prefer to transact in Bitcoin. There must be a reason after all. 

 

P.S. I know the reasons but I'm not prepared to do the leg work for nocoiners anymore. 

You've done the leg work for years and I'm even getting fed up just a few months!

 

@Gigantic Purple Slugthe can convert to local currency if they choose i.e. dollars in ESD but given the dollar is debasing and they are not 'benefiting' from the money printing, why would they.  Use Bitcoin as a store of value and protect your money.  My investments in bitcoin are ultimately me using it as a saving account.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Warlord said:

TWO South African brothers who launched a bitcoin business from their bedroom and gathered £2.5billion in funds have vanished in what is suspected to be the biggest crypto heist in history.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15390502/bitcoin-brothers-vanish-with-2-5billion-in-investor-funds/

 

More scams,, theft and illegal activity associated with Bitcoin.. say it ain't so /sarc

@Peter Hun

Stop press, robbers use cars to make a quick getaway, I imagine cars will be banned soon.

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Wonder why bitcoin market dominance dropped so hard? Like 40% now.

was it just that the Alts never caught up in bitcoins bubble? or the alts do better in the bear periods? 

could it be just due to the huge number of alts having pretend value? So plenty or pre-minded coins which are worth ‘x’ but if ever tested actually worth zero?

Eth seems to be doing well against bitcoin. 

could it be that people’s bitcoin positions were much larger so they were much more likely to drastically cut exposure in a bear market as much more was on the table, while their odd £100 in Eth was not even worth messing around with? Giving a bit of a fake outlook that Eth is stronger than it actually is? 

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14 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Why would you do that ? I mean its one thing to swap your currency for something like the USD, which has some measure of price stability, but bitcoin is all over the place.

Apparently 70% of El Salvadorans don't have a bank account. Bitcoin may be a good alternative if you don't have a bank account.

But what sort of person doesn't have a bank account and what other things are they likely not to have? A poor person and they are likely not to have Internet access. 

The proportion without bank account and without Internet access are similar. I expect a lot of them lack both. Will those without Internet access be able to send and receive bitcoin?

13 hours ago, Buffer Bear said:

Nor do they have to give a cut to the gangs waiting outside western union or wherever having cashed in their money and without ridiculous remittance costs. 

This may be wishful thinking. If a country is sufficiently corrupt or lawless that gangs can do this, do you think the gangs will simply disappear if Western Union isn't used? Can't they just wait at the bitcoin ATM? They can't steal the bitcoin, but haven't established you own bitcoin, they can demand you convert to wealth in another form (US dollars, physical goods).

14 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

ask an El Salvadoran what they think about using the USD? Ask them why they prefer to transact in Bitcoin. There must be a reason after all. 

So there are some sensible reasons why people have chosen to transact in bitcoin.

But some advocates talk nonsense. For example, Bukele said: 

"Bitcoin has a market cap of $680 billion dollars. If 1% of it is invested in El Salvador, that would increase our GDP by 25%"

At first I thought this was based on some unrealistic modelling. Then I looked up their GDP ($27bn) and realised he thinks if $6.8bn is invested in El Salvador, that increases GDP by $6.8bn! So he doesn't understand what GDP is.

People who own bitcoin aren't looking for another place to "invest" it. It's not like a foreign currency (e.g. maybe you convert sterling to US dollars, and then use them to build a factory in the US - something would probably would increase GDP). People who have invested in bitcoin did so as they place value on it itself, not because they are hoping to buy something else with it. So he doesn't understand why people invested in bitcoin.

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Sorry, I am on my mobile so can't easily delete the nonsense above. I use a v old BlackBerry (KeyOne) rather than upgrade when I can save the money in BTC. 😁It's actually held together by Sellotape!

Anyway, it's a good idea to consider facts rather than our perceptions.  Many continents do not have access to banking facilities but our stereotype is challenged by the facts. Many less economically developed countries including Asia and Africa have high usage of mobile phones.  Why do you think that Nigeria is leading re: bitcoin?

https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2021-el-salvador

 

Re: the gang stuff, listen to the videos of those involved in the Bitcoin Beach videos.  It's their reality rather than what we may think.  Btw, even when monies are transferred it doesn't necessarily need to be taken out an ATM.  Strike allows payment to vendors by dollar or Bitcoin.  Have a listen to the President's address yesterday. 

We are so spoilt in the West that sometimes it is quite challenging to understand the lived experiences of others.  

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JP Morgan says it could fall as low as $23,000 (£16,500)

Which would be a 65% fall from the peak 

seems a 65% fall is better than the 85% falls we have seen before, not that it’s really worth listening to fecking useless scummy bankers. 

 

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9 hours ago, Young Turk said:

Apparently 70% of El Salvadorans don't have a bank account. Bitcoin may be a good alternative if you don't have a bank account.

But what sort of person doesn't have a bank account and what other things are they likely not to have? A poor person and they are likely not to have Internet access. 

The proportion without bank account and without Internet access are similar. I expect a lot of them lack both. Will those without Internet access be able to send and receive bitcoin?

This may be wishful thinking. If a country is sufficiently corrupt or lawless that gangs can do this, do you think the gangs will simply disappear if Western Union isn't used? Can't they just wait at the bitcoin ATM? They can't steal the bitcoin, but haven't established you own bitcoin, they can demand you convert to wealth in another form (US dollars, physical goods).

So there are some sensible reasons why people have chosen to transact in bitcoin.

But some advocates talk nonsense. For example, Bukele said: 

"Bitcoin has a market cap of $680 billion dollars. If 1% of it is invested in El Salvador, that would increase our GDP by 25%"

At first I thought this was based on some unrealistic modelling. Then I looked up their GDP ($27bn) and realised he thinks if $6.8bn is invested in El Salvador, that increases GDP by $6.8bn! So he doesn't understand what GDP is.

People who own bitcoin aren't looking for another place to "invest" it. It's not like a foreign currency (e.g. maybe you convert sterling to US dollars, and then use them to build a factory in the US - something would probably would increase GDP). People who have invested in bitcoin did so as they place value on it itself, not because they are hoping to buy something else with it. So he doesn't understand why people invested in bitcoin.

Wow just wow. Talk about an ill educated, utterly sanctimonious prejudiced opinion. Go and learn something about the unbanked and come back to us once you understand exactly why they are unbanked. 

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14 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

JP Morgan says it could fall as low as $23,000 (£16,500)

Which would be a 65% fall from the peak 

seems a 65% fall is better than the 85% falls we have seen before, not that it’s really worth listening to fecking useless scummy bankers. 

 

JPMorgan have an even worse track record of predictions than you.

Edited by goldbug9999
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24 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Wow just wow. Talk about an ill educated, utterly sanctimonious prejudiced opinion. Go and learn something about the unbanked and come back to us once you understand exactly why they are unbanked. 

I see you completely ignored what I wrote. Nothing I said was sanctimonious (acknowledging that they are poor has nothing to do with their moral character)!

It's a bit cheeky for you to claim I'm ill-educated! In El Salvador 70% don't have a bank account and 66% don't have Internet access. OK, I assume those most of those 70% are also in the 66%, but do you really think my assumption is wrong? 

El Salvador has a GDP per capita of approximately $4,000! It is neither sanctimonious nor prejudiced to consider the average El Salvadorian poor. Probably the unbanked are poorer than average.

Do you think being unbanked has nothing to do with wealth, technology or the legal system?

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6 hours ago, Buffer Bear said:

Anyway, it's a good idea to consider facts rather than our perceptions.  Many continents do not have access to banking facilities but our stereotype is challenged by the facts. Many less economically developed countries including Asia and Africa have high usage of mobile phones.  Why do you think that Nigeria is leading re: bitcoin?

Several South Africans have told me they were shocked at how backward financial technology is in the UK and the USA and how it seemed to them that the more third world a country is, the more advanced their financial arrangements were. So that is consistent with what you're saying about Nigeria.

6 hours ago, Buffer Bear said:

Re: the gang stuff, listen to the videos of those involved in the Bitcoin Beach videos.  It's their reality rather than what we may think.  Btw, even when monies are transferred it doesn't necessarily need to be taken out an ATM.  Strike allows payment to vendors by dollar or Bitcoin.  Have a listen to the President's address yesterday. 

Considering the President's howler that I quoted ("Bitcoin has a market cap of $680 billion dollars. If 1% of it is invested in El Salvador, that would increase our GDP by 25%"), I'm a bit sceptical that he is worth paying attention to. Do you think he was just having a bad day when he tweeted it? 

I'd have more confidence if there was some explanation (e.g. obviously the President has said some things which reveal his ignorance, but pay attention to these guys instead).

Do you think the gangs will simply stop extorting or stealing from people? They can't steal the bitcoin, but if they know you have wealth in bitcoin, can't they physically intimidate you as before and demand that you transfer some wealth to something they can take and then take it?

As I said, there are good reasons why these people are transacting in bitcoin. Obviously this is doing some good. I was just questioning how much it would achieve. 

Do you think El Salvador and Nigeria (and other any other developing countries which are adopting bitcoin on a large scale) will improve much? I don't know how this could be made into a falsifiable hypothesis. 

7 hours ago, Buffer Bear said:

We are so spoilt in the West that sometimes it is quite challenging to understand the lived experiences of others.  

Careful! @MonsieurCopperCrutch will accuse you of being sanctimonious and other words he misuses.

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