The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

[Jonesy74]

57 minutes ago, GreenDevil said:

Does it matter if it goes to 200k before 1.2k?

The red arrow doesn’t seem to suggest that

[markyh]

51 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

How much are you paying PA to hold that XBT?

From my HL Account ; I do remember seeing the hefty dealing exchange rate fee on the buy order ticket when I bought it, took me by surprise as I had never seen that charge before for Gold related ETF's and other funds. If it goes up 100x that 0.45% is gonna be a big annual bill! lol.

[markyh]

16 minutes ago, dannyf said:

The red arrow doesn’t seem to suggest that

surely a higher high above $20k will almost certainly create a new higher support level on the monthly chart?

[dugsbody]

4 minutes ago, markyh said:

From my HL Account ; I do remember seeing the hefty dealing exchange rate fee on the buy order ticket when I bought it, took me by surprise as I had never seen that charge before for Gold related ETF's and other funds. If it goes up 100x that 0.45% is gonna be a big annual bill! lol.

That is HL charges. It also says there is a 2.5% management ongoing fee. Are you including that? 

[longgone]

So BTC profit and future pension dependant on it going up and up.

 

Man of steel

[markyh]

1 minute ago, dugsbody said:

That is HL charges. It also says there is a 2.5% management ongoing fee. Are you including that? 

Will have to ask HL specifically , looked at other Gold ETF's and other funds and all fees and costs are included in the costs box for the fund / ETF, often with HL 100% discount of fees etc. 

As it is UK exclusive for HL SIPP or trading account maybe they did a no fees deal?   I thought for legal clarity reasons with regulation all fees had to be disclosed and explained now hence this tab. I know this tab wasn't there in 2010.

It's worth the phone call tomorrow to clarify now you have raised my curiosity.

[markyh]

19 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

That is HL charges. It also says there is a 2.5% management ongoing fee. Are you including that? 

 

"Since 3 January, Mifid II requires investment managers to disclose additional transaction costs that are charged to their funds, separately from the ongoing charges figure. The directive also requires IFAs to report all the costs back to their clients.

As a result of the new rules, clients may not be paying any additional charges, but they can now see separately how much the transaction costs have always added to the total."

I will clarify with a call tomorrow.

[markyh]

21 minutes ago, longgone said:

So BTC profit and future pension dependant on it going up and up.

 

Man of steel

oh dear, I added less than 5% of my SIPP value as crypto related, the other 95% is still all equites and Gold related, but my hunch is by the time I can get at it in 5 years the 5% Crypto portion will be 70%+ of the total value of the SIPP.  but I don't retire for 17 years so we shall see what happens.

As JiltedJen says,  its sensible to balance all investment portfolios with some of all asset classes, including pensions, if you have a SIPP, and thus control.

[markyh]

36 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

That is HL charges. It also says there is a 2.5% management ongoing fee. Are you including that? 

You can see from the Japan fund that HL list their ongoing fees as 1.26% and HL gain you an 0.25% discount, and it is clearly listed and the ongoing fees (Net Ongoing Charge) is disclosed as 1.01% p/a in the 5 year illustration calc. 

 

[markyh]

[GreenDevil]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

So BTC profit and future pension dependant on it going up and up.

 

Man of steel

In a few years, people will be saying at the coffee machine, your moneys safe in btc, its my pension you know, I gave up on property, such a bad investment.. 

[dugsbody]

4 hours ago, markyh said:

You can see from the Japan fund that HL list their ongoing fees as 1.26% and HL gain you an 0.25% discount, and it is clearly listed and the ongoing fees (Net Ongoing Charge) is disclosed as 1.01% p/a in the 5 year illustration calc. 

 

Thanks. I was wondering if the 2.5% was somehow built into the price of the ETF but from what you're saying, this is now not compliant. I admit, I'm not the best at deciphering this jargon.

[markyh]

A nice capitulation selloff of 60% now back down to $3600 and the 200WMA retest then a bounce will complete the tracking of 2014/15 chart, then back to these levels in the Autumn and around $10k by years end.

Then we all know what happens after that! Look Left in the chart to 2016/17. ?

[longgone]

9 hours ago, GreenDevil said:

In a few years, people will be saying at the coffee machine, your moneys safe in btc, its my pension you know, I gave up on property, such a bad investment.. 

if i join lots of BTC together can i live in it ?

[longgone]

11 hours ago, markyh said:

oh dear, I added less than 5% of my SIPP value as crypto related, the other 95% is still all equites and Gold related, but my hunch is by the time I can get at it in 5 years the 5% Crypto portion will be 70%+ of the total value of the SIPP.  but I don't retire for 17 years so we shall see what happens.

As JiltedJen says,  its sensible to balance all investment portfolios with some of all asset classes, including pensions, if you have a SIPP, and thus control.

5% = how much fiat  

So even if BTC goes to the moon you will still work another 17 years.  surely that`s why people want easy money so they don`t have to work ?

[markyh]

33 minutes ago, longgone said:

5% = how much fiat  

So even if BTC goes to the moon you will still work another 17 years.  surely that`s why people want easy money so they don`t have to work ?

Plenty of work that is enjoyable but not hard but the pay is so, so. Like is said before, minimum wage for ANY job now 37.5hrs a week is £16k for someone over 25. I would look into other areas to generate wealth, would be very much the work to live not live to work mantra. I'm very handy so would deff do a lot of work with subbies to build my own extension etc. I would also fancy learning welding , getting qualified in electrics etc. Also have a big interest in home Renewable energy and Electric Cars etc. Loads of things I would dabble in to generate wealth if I didn't have to live to work like most people do day to day. 

[longgone]

13 minutes ago, markyh said:

Plenty of work that is enjoyable but not hard but the pay is so, so. Like is said before, minimum wage for ANY job now 37.5hrs a week is £16k for someone over 25. I would look into other areas to generate wealth, would be very much the work to live not live to work mantra. I'm very handy so would deff do a lot of work with subbies to build my own extension etc. I would also fancy learning welding , getting qualified in electrics etc. Also have a big interest in home Renewable energy and Electric Cars etc. Loads of things I would dabble in to generate wealth if I didn't have to live to work like most people do day to day. 

ah right thought you meant stay at your employer.  being an employee nowadays is not a pleasant experience hence my question.  

minimum wage ? who on that 

[markyh]

8 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Thanks. I was wondering if the 2.5% was somehow built into the price of the ETF but from what you're saying, this is now not compliant. I admit, I'm not the best at deciphering this jargon.

Right I spoke to HL and the Net Ongoing Charge is 2.5% for the XBT Provider ETN's , Bitcoin and ETHER, Euro and SEK, Their costs tab is in error for all and their IT will update is asap. 

But you don't pay this fee as cash as it is net of asset price via the fund in Sweden. So basically they take 2.5% of the price annually via the ETN listed/traded price as their fee.  So yes in effect if Bitcoin rose from $8k to $100k, at that point holding the ETN is effectively going from costing you $200 per BTC p/a to $2500 per BTC p/a.

But Still being in a SIPP all the gains are shielded from CGT, and our Human temptation to spend it , until you reach 55, then you can nab 25% of the gainz tax free. 

[dugsbody]

3 minutes ago, markyh said:

Right I spoke to HL and the Net Ongoing Charge is 2.5% for the XBT Provider ETN's , Bitcoin and ETHER, Euro and SEK, Their costs tab is in error for all and their IT will update is asap. 

But you don't pay this fee as cash as it is net of asset price via the fund in Sweden. So basically they take 2.5% of the price annually via the ETN listed/traded price as their fee.  So yes in effect if Bitcoin rose from $8k to $100k, at that point holding the ETN is effectively going from costing you $200 per BTC p/a to $2500 per BTC p/a.

But Still being in a SIPP all the gains are shielded from CGT, and our Human temptation to spend it , until you reach 55, then you can nab 25% of the gainz tax free. 

Thanks, that is as I expected. It's the same with many ETFs. 

Congrats for getting this corrected.

[narco]

On 15/05/2019 at 04:18, dannyf said:

Posted at roughly $7400. Currently around $8100 (+9.5%). Will continue to track

Looks like this turd is printing a shooting star on the weekly ready for the final flush. Now at $7200.

Anyone buying the 'dip' ?

[scottbeard]

55 minutes ago, narco said:

Looks like this turd is printing a shooting star on the weekly ready for the final flush. Now at $7200.

Anyone buying the 'dip' ?

The same 'turd' that's still up 40% in the last fortnight...? ?

No asset could ever be expected to rise in value every single week.

[markyh]

1 hour ago, narco said:

Looks like this turd is printing a shooting star on the weekly ready for the final flush. Now at $7200.

Anyone buying the 'dip' ?

I find it funny that Bitfinex shorts dropped from 30k BTC to 17k BTC in the last week, and then the price dropped after, lol. This is most likely a 30-40% pullback, they are as common as muck on the way up , as are 60%-80% rallys on the way down.

Personally I hope it's a final capitulation 60% to $3600 and retest the 200WMA to complete the repeat tracking from 2015, then we, are up, up, up to 200k by December 2021.

[markyh]

1 hour ago, narco said:

 

Anyone buying the 'dip' ?

Yes if we get back to the 200WMA. how is Nano holding up? Disconnected from BTC yet?

[Kosmin]

On ‎16‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 00:34, GreenDevil said:

In a few years, people will be saying at the coffee machine, your moneys safe in btc, its my pension you know, I gave up on property, such a bad investment.. 

People will still be investing in equities for the long term in a few years.

[dugsbody]

55 minutes ago, markyh said:

Yes if we get back to the 200WMA. how is Nano holding up? Disconnected from BTC yet?

I don't understand the dislike for challenger coins. I own no Nano and don't push it, but from everything I've read it seems to do the job of a cryptocurrency far better than bitcoin.

If we're really interested in disrupting the status quo of money, why not push for something that has a chance of doing it? Bitcoin in its current technical form has no chance. 

This is a hypothetical question by the way. I know the answer is that most people don't care about disrupting the status quo of money, they just want to get rich and cash out to fiat eventually.