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Time to raise the rents.

If Rightmove Say They're Rising, How Can You Argue?

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/...1882096,00.html

The fact is bears, that agents won't put property on at inflated prices indefinitely. They wouldn't earn an income if they did.

So whilst I have acknowledged many times that they do inflate asking prices to get stock, I think it's time that you lot acknowledge that after a slow market these past months, they wouldn't increase asking prices unless things were really moving again.

Rightmove says they're going up, I ask how you can argue with that given these circumstances?

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An observation, last week I noticed that a large number properties from a major estate agent in Bristol,were very oddly relisted onto the rightmove website.

they were all properties that had been on for several months.

What a great way of making the prices look like they going up by relisting selected properties.

Thus keeping the prices artificially high......please discuss...

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An observation, last week I noticed that a large number properties from a major estate agent in Bristol,were very oddly relisted onto the rightmove website.

they were all properties that had been on for several months.

What a great way of making the prices look like they going up by relisting selected properties.

Thus keeping the prices artificially high......please discuss...

I'm certain that they would have safeguards for relisting the same properties.

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/...1882096,00.html

The fact is bears, that agents won't put property on at inflated prices indefinitely. They wouldn't earn an income if they did.

So whilst I have acknowledged many times that they do inflate asking prices to get stock, I think it's time that you lot acknowledge that after a slow market these past months, they wouldn't increase asking prices unless things were really moving again.

Rightmove says they're going up, I ask how you can argue with that given these circumstances?

I've analysed 2,400 properties asking prices on a daily basis from RightMove's site since 1st Septmber. In October, the average asking price in the area I analyse rose by 0.77%.

However, the average asking price for properties in the same area marked as Under Offer or SSTC FELL by 2.2%.

Unrealistic vendor expectations are alive and well it seems.

Source : www.rightmove.co.uk

I'm certain that they would have safeguards for relisting the same properties.

I asked them this very point.

They don't.

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/...1882096,00.html

The fact is bears, that agents won't put property on at inflated prices indefinitely. They wouldn't earn an income if they did.

So whilst I have acknowledged many times that they do inflate asking prices to get stock, I think it's time that you lot acknowledge that after a slow market these past months, they wouldn't increase asking prices unless things were really moving again.

Rightmove says they're going up, I ask how you can argue with that given these circumstances?

You can't (and shouldn't) argue with incorrect, flawed and statistically abused data. You just highlight its inadequacies and its documented existing and past shortcomings and distortions, ignore it and move on.

:)

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I've analysed 2,400 properties asking prices on a daily basis from RightMove's site since 1st Septmber. In October, the average asking price in the area I analyse rose by 0.77%.

However, the average asking price for properties in the same area marked as Under Offer or SSTC FELL by 2.2%.

1/ So they're going up that fast hey?

2/ Old properties removed, therefore properties advertised later at lower asking prices make up the majority still there, nothing odd there to me.

Source : www.rightmove.co.uk

I asked them this very point.

They don't.

Well having given it a monent of thought, who cares whether they have a safeguard or not? A place would need to be relisted at a different price to affect the stats either up or down.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/...1882096,00.html

The fact is bears, that agents won't put property on at inflated prices indefinitely. They wouldn't earn an income if they did.

So whilst I have acknowledged many times that they do inflate asking prices to get stock, I think it's time that you lot acknowledge that after a slow market these past months, they wouldn't increase asking prices unless things were really moving again.

Rightmove says they're going up, I ask how you can argue with that given these circumstances?

Even though I sold my B2Ls I always maintained TTRTRs had a sound long - term business and that bears were thick to suggest he sell - up, afterall, BT does't shut the shop every time it encounters difficult trading conditions.

THE NUMBER ONE MISTAKE THE MEGA - BEARS MAKE IS TO ASSUME PROPERTY ACTS JUST LIKE 'PURE' INVESTMENT MARKETS.

Thier second mistake is to view every piece of news / world development as a reason to panick.

Bears, next time you instinctively gut - respond in a negative way, stop, think and question.

Most of all recall all the other 'impending disasters' such as AIDS, Y2K, TIGER ECONOMIES CRASH, DOT COM BUST, SCRAPEE, BSE, FALKLANDS WAR, 1976 DROUGHT, 9/11, HURRICANES, UNION THREATS, ENRON, WORLDCOM, LlOYDS NAMES, XMAS SHOPPER DROUGHTS. 1987 UK HURRICANE, 2001/2 FLOODS and note how 'life goes on'.

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Even though I sold my B2Ls I always maintained TTRTRs had a sound long - term business and that bears were thick to suggest he sell - up, afterall, BT does't shut the shop every time it encounters difficult trading conditions.

THE NUMBER ONE MISTAKE THE MEGA - BEARS MAKE IS TO ASSUME PROPERTY ACTS JUST LIKE 'PURE' INVESTMENT MARKETS.

Thier second mistake is to view every piece of news / world development as a reason to panick.

Bears, next time you instinctively gut - respond in a negative way, stop, think and question.

Most of all recall all the other 'impending disasters' such as AIDS, Y2K, TIGER ECONOMIES CRASH, DOT COM BUST, SCRAPEE, BSE, FALKLANDS WAR, 1976 DROUGHT, 9/11, HURRICANES, UNION THREATS, ENRON, WORLDCOM, LlOYDS NAMES, XMAS SHOPPER DROUGHTS. 1987 UK HURRICANE, 2001/2 FLOODS and note how 'life goes on'.

I don't think we're heading for an impending "disaster." I do think we're heading for another world-wide recession.

Nor do I get upset by every property report (skewed or not skewed) that comes out. What I do is follow the market in the specific area (two villages, really) where I'm looking to buy. Prices are falling there. Houses are taking forever to sell. Some are coming back on the market after they've sold. That's the only relevant data (for me), and it's the data I'll use to decide when to buy.

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1/ So they're going up that fast hey?

2/ Old properties removed, therefore properties advertised later at lower asking prices make up the majority still there, nothing odd there to me.

Well having given it a monent of thought, who cares whether they have a safeguard or not? A place would need to be relisted at a different price to affect the stats either up or down.

Interestingly, unless a property is de-listed and re-listed the same month, any asking price reduction for a property is not included in RightMove calculation of average asking prices. They use the "initial" asking prices.

If a property is "removed", as you put it (not 100% sure what you mean by "removed" though), its not included in my calculations.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Most of all recall all the other 'impending disasters' such as AIDS, Y2K, TIGER ECONOMIES CRASH, DOT COM BUST, SCRAPEE, BSE, FALKLANDS WAR, 1976 DROUGHT, 9/11, HURRICANES, UNION THREATS, ENRON, WORLDCOM, LlOYDS NAMES, XMAS SHOPPER DROUGHTS. 1987 UK HURRICANE, 2001/2 FLOODS and note how 'life goes on'.

The only one of these I would have put in the "disaster" category would be AIDS (not so impending in Africa I might add). All the others are (or were) not major, world threatening problems (who, outside the UK, cares that much about floods or hurricanes occuring here?).

Bit of barrel scraping methinks. :P

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Even though I sold my B2Ls I always maintained TTRTRs had a sound long - term business and that bears were thick to suggest he sell - up, afterall, BT does't shut the shop every time it encounters difficult trading conditions.

THE NUMBER ONE MISTAKE THE MEGA - BEARS MAKE IS TO ASSUME PROPERTY ACTS JUST LIKE 'PURE' INVESTMENT MARKETS.

Thier second mistake is to view every piece of news / world development as a reason to panick.

Bears, next time you instinctively gut - respond in a negative way, stop, think and question.

Most of all recall all the other 'impending disasters' such as AIDS, Y2K, TIGER ECONOMIES CRASH, DOT COM BUST, SCRAPEE, BSE, FALKLANDS WAR, 1976 DROUGHT, 9/11, HURRICANES, UNION THREATS, ENRON, WORLDCOM, LlOYDS NAMES, XMAS SHOPPER DROUGHTS. 1987 UK HURRICANE, 2001/2 FLOODS and note how 'life goes on'.

Dogbox,

If you don't mind me saying, this is an impressively dim-witted post.

Can you ever imagine the chief executive of any company making a six/seven figure salary plus bonuses, share options and a fat pension payment saying "actually, do you know what, I reckon we should just shut the company down" regardless of whether this is in the best interests of its shareholders or not?

Nope, he'll weather the storm and bank the money (while the shareholders pay). Of course in a BTL the chief executive is the shareholders. A strange analogy you made I would suggest.

I can't even be bothered to explain why the rest of the post is rambling bollogs.

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Rightmove says they're going up, I ask how you can argue with that given these circumstances?

I don't think you can. The pace of HPI is slower, but still upwards. What continues to mystify me is why? It makes increasingly less financial sense to buy instead of the cheaper rent option, FTB's are all but extinct and there's no wage inflation to prop up the market. It seems like a market without fundamentals. Weird.

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The only one of these I would have put in the "disaster" category would be AIDS (not so impending in Africa I might add). All the others are (or were) not major, world threatening problems (who, outside the UK, cares that much about floods or hurricanes occuring here?).

Bit of barrel scraping methinks. :P

Exactly, bears are forever posting impending disaster stories that for the rest of Humanity are nothing more than the ebs and flows of life. Normal ebs and flows become impending disasters in the mind of the mega - bear.

Every day on here I see postings that seek to link impending disaster to bird flu, peakoil, the dollar rise, supposed reducing incomes, large companies going bust, car sales, retail sales and on and on.

Its bears who are the inimitable barrel scrapers. :lol:

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Most of all recall all the other 'impending disasters' such as AIDS, Y2K, TIGER ECONOMIES CRASH, DOT COM BUST, SCRAPEE, BSE, FALKLANDS WAR, 1976 DROUGHT, 9/11, HURRICANES, UNION THREATS, ENRON, WORLDCOM, LlOYDS NAMES, XMAS SHOPPER DROUGHTS. 1987 UK HURRICANE, 2001/2 FLOODS and note how 'life goes on'.

Er, you missed out four house price crashes. Life goes on.

Ho hum.

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Dogbox,

If you don't mind me saying, this is an impressively dim-witted post.

Can you ever imagine the chief executive of any company making a six/seven figure salary plus bonuses, share options and a fat pension payment saying "actually, do you know what, I reckon we should just shut the company down" regardless of whether this is in the best interests of its shareholders or not?

Nope, he'll weather the storm and bank the money (while the shareholders pay). Of course in a BTL the chief executive is the shareholders. A strange analogy you made I would suggest.

I can't even be bothered to explain why the rest of the post is rambling bollogs.

My we are very dim today. No I cant imagine a co director doing that for the same reasons I gave earlier this year when bears kept saying LLs must sell - up.

Bears oft' describe those with portfolios as insane numpties that ought to sell - up and re - invest elsewhere.

I oft' repudeated this by likening the bear call for LLs to sell - up, to calling for companies to sell - up when trading was difficult.

I argued LLs should stick with it as long as thier portfolios generated a usefull income. Bears lambasted this saying yields were too low to justify anything other than selling up.

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Even though I sold my B2Ls I always maintained TTRTRs had a sound long - term business and that bears were thick to suggest he sell - up, afterall, BT does't shut the shop every time it encounters difficult trading conditions.

THE NUMBER ONE MISTAKE THE MEGA - BEARS MAKE IS TO ASSUME PROPERTY ACTS JUST LIKE 'PURE' INVESTMENT MARKETS.

Thier second mistake is to view every piece of news / world development as a reason to panick.

Bears, next time you instinctively gut - respond in a negative way, stop, think and question.

Most of all recall all the other 'impending disasters' such as AIDS, Y2K, TIGER ECONOMIES CRASH, DOT COM BUST, SCRAPEE, BSE, FALKLANDS WAR, 1976 DROUGHT, 9/11, HURRICANES, UNION THREATS, ENRON, WORLDCOM, LlOYDS NAMES, XMAS SHOPPER DROUGHTS. 1987 UK HURRICANE, 2001/2 FLOODS and note how 'life goes on'.

And there will be life after the coming crash! A better one!

Regarding TTRTR's 'portfolio', if he wants to ride out the storm then great, good luck to him. I'm not suggesting he sells up at all. I would simply argue that now is not the right time to get back into the market and similarly, if I were a BTL investor, wouldn't increase my portfolio for the same reason...

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My we are very dim today. No I cant imagine a co director doing that for the same reasons I gave earlier this year when bears kept saying LLs must sell - up.

Bears oft' describe those with portfolios as insane numpties that ought to sell - up and re - invest elsewhere.

I oft' repudeated this by likening the bear call for LLs to sell - up, to calling for companies to sell - up when trading was difficult.

I argued LLs should stick with it as long as thier portfolios generated a usefull income. Bears lambasted this saying yields were too low to justify anything other than selling up.

I can only assume that WE is a Royal WE.

I'm trying to explain to you that these are two very different things with two very different sets of driving forces. Shareholders can sell any time they like so why should a board (even ignoring their own personal vested and substantial interests) vote to close the business down? If I own BT shares and think it is going to suffer for five years I can sell the shares and look to buy them later, there is no need for the business to close down to make me happy. The directors can still enrich themselves while times are tough (as Rover's management team demonstrated, even if it would have been better for others for them to have cut the losses earlier).

Your analogy doesn't work.

I find it strange that someone who freely admits he sold his BTL portfolio (while blatantly ramping property on this site) then argues landlords should "stick with it". Surely, by definition one way or the other, nobody should take your advice.

If someone is telling me Horse A is a dead-cert in a race but I know he is backing Horse B shouldn't I conclude that he is either a liar or a fool?

I think it is entirely consistent for bears to believe landlords should sell. Just because you get a good income (while losing heavily in capital terms) that doesn't make it sensible. Of course, landlords like TTRTR who do not believe prices will fall (much?) should not sell.

This is the crux of the argument on HPC and nobody has a crystal ball.

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I think it is entirely consistent for bears to believe landlords should sell. Just because you get a good income (while losing heavily in capital terms) that doesn't make it sensible.

This demonstrates the unreality exhibited in the bear camp ('landlords should sell').

Lets take a really experienced LL; Cambridge University. Should they have sold thier long held portfolio every time the market looked tricky (say WW2) , or as I would assert, has a longterm steady approach provided them with ongoing financial security to weather the storms regardless of the market ebs and flows?

Other longterm LLs include religious and Government organisations.

Sure, I sold, because I want short - term capital appreciation as income doesnt interest me at this time. Also, I bought late in the day, whereas many LLs bought when prices were v low so thier yields are juicy.

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I've analysed 2,400 properties asking prices on a daily basis from RightMove's site since 1st Septmber. In October, the average asking price in the area I analyse rose by 0.77%.

However, the average asking price for properties in the same area marked as Under Offer or SSTC FELL by 2.2%.

Unrealistic vendor expectations are alive and well it seems.

Source : www.rightmove.co.uk

I asked them this very point.

They don't.

Are you certain? I always see the same props in manc recycled into the 'new' filter, but assumed they wouldnt be recounted

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This demonstrates the unreality exhibited in the bear camp ('landlords should sell').

Lets take a really experienced LL; Cambridge University. Should they have sold thier long held portfolio every time the market looked tricky (say WW2) , or as I would assert, has a longterm steady approach provided them with ongoing financial security to weather the storms regardless of the market ebs and flows?

Other longterm LLs include religious and Government organisations.

Sure, I sold, because I want short - term capital appreciation as income doesnt interest me at this time. Also, I bought late in the day, whereas many LLs bought when prices were v low so thier yields are juicy.

Your argument just gets stranger and stranger.

How can you compare TTRTR today with Cambridge University in WW2?

And those landlords' yields are "juicy" provided they use some fugged up version of a yield calculation that does not take into account today's property prices.

And you talk about bears' unreality?

You're making an Aris of yourself.

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Are you certain? I always see the same props in manc recycled into the 'new' filter, but assumed they wouldnt be recounted

I emailed RightMove several months ago about how they calculated their average asking price. They take a SAMPLE of all properties added to the site in the previous month. If an agent relists a property and it shows as "new" (EAs can do this by de-listing and re-listing a property as its assigned a new ID), the asking price may be included in the following months figures.

Here is one property that has appeared 3 times under different property IDs :

Todays listing

Previous listing with different ID

And another previous listing

I think RightMove may be powerless to stop relisted properties being recounted as they can't uniquely identify a property other than by the number which they assign it when it is listed (or re-listed). So they probably can't determine with any ease that the above three "properties" are in fact one and the same. I imagine they have similar grief with the same property listed simultaneously by more than one EA.

I no statistician, (help please someone who is), but wouldn't it help for them to publish the median asking price, not just the mean average?

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And those landlords' yields are "juicy" provided they use some fugged up version of a yield calculation that does not take into account today's property prices.

Indeed. BTL arguments would be more convincing if they actually understood economics: at least TTRTR probably is making a profit from multiple-occupancy renting, but someone who, say, bought a flat for 20k fifteen years ago and is renting it out for 500 a month today would probably be better off selling and putting the money in a savings account.

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Your argument just gets stranger and stranger.

How can you compare TTRTR today with Cambridge University in WW2?

And those landlords' yields are "juicy" provided they use some fugged up version of a yield calculation that does not take into account today's property prices.

And you talk about bears' unreality?

You're making an Aris of yourself.

I take my lessons from those that have done it, not those that have thought about it.

In the end, most of the B2Ls I know have achieved financial independance and security in a short space of time.

You are a classic over - analyiser who cant see the woods for the trees. Ive met many a person like you that in the mid nineties thought B2L was to be avoided. Despite thier irrelevant over scientific rantings they are all still wage slaves with no prospect of achieving financial independance at a young age.

You have very limited understanding of real yield other than on some hocus - pocus theory of economics level.

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Indeed. BTL arguments would be more convincing if they actually understood economics: at least TTRTR probably is making a profit from multiple-occupancy renting, but someone who, say, bought a flat for 20k fifteen years ago and is renting it out for 500 a month today would probably be better off selling and putting the money in a savings account.

If they bought it for 20k in 1990 it would be wirth say 60-70k now?

Can't imagine how they get 500 per month for it but say they do. £500x12=6kpa less mortgage of say 1k = 5k pa

if you put 60-70k in the building soc - you would get about 3-3.5k

and no capital growth

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Indeed. BTL arguments would be more convincing if they actually understood economics: at least TTRTR probably is making a profit from multiple-occupancy renting, but someone who, say, bought a flat for 20k fifteen years ago and is renting it out for 500 a month today would probably be better off selling and putting the money in a savings account.

Great, put the money in a Bank account and recieve net 1% after inflation and Tax, what an investment!

Or, leave it in property and as well as income there is potential for capital growth spurts which Bank accounts have no chance of ever experiencing.

The world does'nt move forward becuase people have the brainwave of putting money in a Bank account you know.

The new world currency is real estate. What a shame all u bears will miss - out on huge appreciation world - wide, because you had only the spine to errr, invest it in a Bank account.

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  • 343 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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