Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
campervanman

Work Not The Route Out Of Poverty

Recommended Posts

"Working poor" in the new catchphrase and tho has been the case in Japan for the last 10+yrs, full time working people still dirt poor, on GMTV this morning this topic was covered as well as wealthy pensioners being asked to pay more by giving up bus passes, winter fuel etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24553611

So trashing the currency, high inflation and keeping wages down has resulted in more poverty for "hardworking families". Who would have predicted that?

Working doesn't pay.

Claim benefits instead.

Buy a BTL.

Live off other peoples backs, it's the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tide of people cottoning on to the tax credit route is growing everyday, hence all the "hard working people" rethoric being trotted out, I wonder where the tipping point is and how close we to it when the "hard workers" are a minority, they must be concerned about the income tax take surely, maybe why all the HMRC propaganda lately too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-24553611

So trashing the currency, high inflation and keeping wages down has resulted in more poverty for "hardworking families". Who would have predicted that?

left wing idiots at BBC ignore the white elephant in the room:

if you provide benefits to all earning under £40k pa (almost like 70% of the population) you should not be surprised that the work does not pay

if the benefits would be always lower than the minimal wage then even the minimal wage would be enough for living

simple as that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

left wing idiots at BBC ignore the white elephant in the room:

if you provide benefits to all earning under £40k pa (almost like 70% of the population) you should not be surprised that the work does not pay

if the benefits would be always lower than the minimal wage then even the minimal wage would be enough for living

simple as that

and why are these benefits 'needed'?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

left wing idiots at BBC ignore the white elephant in the room:

if you provide benefits to all earning under £40k pa (almost like 70% of the population) you should not be surprised that the work does not pay

if the benefits would be always lower than the minimal wage then even the minimal wage would be enough for living

simple as that

Well they might well be enough for living but living would need to be reclassified as something more like living by the standards experienced in poorer countries rather than those that could be reasonably expected in one of the worlds richer countries. The UK problem is not the size of the cake, it is how the cake is divided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are being pulled in all directions with incoherent policies designed for different people.

HTB- clearly aimed at getting people to willingly put themselves in a position of needing to work for as long as possible, preferably on a dual income basis. Requires industrious worker ant types who will willingly sign away huge tranches of their productive output without a great deal of thought as to the value proposition on offer. The pool of such types is shallowing but still a fertile source.

The tax credit system and monetary policy provides an escape route from the inconvenient fact that the UK is too darn expensive for most people who earn at the lower end, and certainly those whose housing arrangements were not fixed a decade ago or more. We have to pretend that work is still a gainful pursuit(financially) for people earning £8/hour gross and the only means to do that in the current setup of low wages and high housing costs is to effect redistributional merrygorounds.

And we wonder why people increasingly are reluctant to assume the role of worker ants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are being pulled in all directions with incoherent policies designed for different people.

HTB- clearly aimed at getting people to willingly put themselves in a position of needing to work for as long as possible, preferably on a dual income basis. Requires industrious worker ant types who will willingly sign away huge tranches of their productive output without a great deal of thought as to the value proposition on offer. The pool of such types is shallowing but still a fertile source.

The tax credit system and monetary policy provides an escape route from the inconvenient fact that the UK is too darn expensive for most people who earn at the lower end, and certainly those whose housing arrangements were not fixed a decade ago or more. We have to pretend that work is still a gainful pursuit(financially) for people earning £8/hour gross and the only means to do that in the current setup of low wages and high housing costs is to effect redistributional merrygorounds.

And we wonder why people increasingly are reluctant to assume the role of worker ants.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are being pulled in all directions with incoherent policies designed for different people.

HTB- clearly aimed at getting people to willingly put themselves in a position of needing to work for as long as possible, preferably on a dual income basis. Requires industrious worker ant types who will willingly sign away huge tranches of their productive output without a great deal of thought as to the value proposition on offer. The pool of such types is shallowing but still a fertile source.

The tax credit system and monetary policy provides an escape route from the inconvenient fact that the UK is too darn expensive for most people who earn at the lower end, and certainly those whose housing arrangements were not fixed a decade ago or more. We have to pretend that work is still a gainful pursuit(financially) for people earning £8/hour gross and the only means to do that in the current setup of low wages and high housing costs is to effect redistributional merrygorounds.

And we wonder why people increasingly are reluctant to assume the role of worker ants.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Working poor" in the new catchphrase and tho has been the case in Japan for the last 10+yrs, full time working people still dirt poor, on GMTV this morning this topic was covered as well as wealthy pensioners being asked to pay more by giving up bus passes, winter fuel etc

...get it right..."The Hard Working Poor". ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I told Blairs agent that this would be the result of Browns tax credits if they didn't stop him when he got Frank Field sacked.

Their answer was tax credits were so far down the income scale hardly anyone would get them.I said then,but Brown has every intention of putting them up way ahead of inflation/wages every year.On top of that wages in the bottom 40% will at best go up just under RPI.(infact much worse).Within 3 years of bringing them in a two child family will have no incentive to work more than 16 hours,,.

That is just what has happened.Worse because of this nobody shouts for higher wages,because higher wages don't matter for people with children.

Its only once the children leave education and tax credits stop people see they are infact in terrible poverty because of low wages.Its a trap,set by Labour.

Tax credits have given people with children in the bottom 50% a great income for little work,but then it turns around and whips them in their 40s when they stop.

Brown knew just what he was doing.Thats why he had Frank Field removed,because Frank understood the disaster unfolding and was the only person who could of got Blair to veto it.Blair didn't understand tax credits were a massive benefit,he was sold it from Brown as a small scale tax rebate to help people moving into work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well they might well be enough for living but living would need to be reclassified as something more like living by the standards experienced in poorer countries rather than those that could be reasonably expected in one of the worlds richer countries. The UK problem is not the size of the cake, it is how the cake is divided.

this is nonsense. low living costs does not mean low living standards

-----------------------------------------------------

you can build a flat for about £30k; you can build a small terrace for £60k

for food you need about £3 to £4 per adult per day

if you remove fuel duties petrol would be 50% cheaper

if you start building modern nuclear power stations you would have electricity for 10p per kWh; and even less during night

you can cut state and public pensions as living costs would be much lower

quite comfortable to be on minimal wage

-----------------------------------------------------

and the UK cake is split like this:

- 30% of people earning above £40k pa are taxed about 70%

- people earning less than £40k pa get all the free bees

so with your socialism in action the result is:

- people earning less than £40k pa are still at the bottom

- people earning above £40k pa are even worse

- anybody with a half brain is more focused on getting more benefits than more work

- plus we also speculate with house price inflation to get rich with no effort and no work

yes, socialism just does not work; simple as that; UK is the prime example

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I told Blairs agent that this would be the result of Browns tax credits if they didn't stop him when he got Frank Field sacked.

Their answer was tax credits were so far down the income scale hardly anyone would get them.I said then,but Brown has every intention of putting them up way ahead of inflation/wages every year.On top of that wages in the bottom 40% will at best go up just under RPI.(infact much worse).Within 3 years of bringing them in a two child family will have no incentive to work more than 16 hours,,.

That is just what has happened.Worse because of this nobody shouts for higher wages,because higher wages don't matter for people with children.

Its only once the children leave education and tax credits stop people see they are infact in terrible poverty because of low wages.Its a trap,set by Labour.

Tax credits have given people with children in the bottom 50% a great income for little work,but then it turns around and whips them in their 40s when they stop.

Brown knew just what he was doing.Thats why he had Frank Field removed,because Frank understood the disaster unfolding and was the only person who could of got Blair to veto it.Blair didn't understand tax credits were a massive benefit,he was sold it from Brown as a small scale tax rebate to help people moving into work.

this is not a problem; you can see the officially "single" mothers to have children in 10 year waves

so if you start with 2 kids when 17, then 2 kids 27 and last kid 37 old you are OK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is not a problem; you can see the officially "single" mothers to have children in 10 year waves

so if you start with 2 kids when 17, then 2 kids 27 and last kid 37 old you are OK

I thought that when your youngest is age 5 you have to look for work these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brown knew just what he was doing.Thats why he had Frank Field removed,because Frank understood the disaster unfolding and was the only person who could of got Blair to veto it.Blair didn't understand tax credits were a massive benefit,he was sold it from Brown as a small scale tax rebate to help people moving into work.

the whole Labour did it to win elections. Imagine more than half of population dependant on the state hand outs. who would ever vote for Tories again ???

this is the reason why Greece collapsed. Any left or right political party in Greece would not cut the state spending as they would loose elections. And then the state collapsed.

so even Tories will not touch the working tax credits.

it seems that democracy is inherently unstable in this area.

if we are lucky we will get a manageable inflation, tax credits will be frozen and we will make it. or we get a hyper inflation or bankrupted state ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that when your youngest is age 5 you have to look for work these days.

hmm, seems like a new regulation:

let me try a new strategy: a child every 5 years - 17, 22, 27, 32, 37 and if you really do not like working the last one at 42

problem solved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is not a problem; you can see the officially "single" mothers to have children in 10 year waves

so if you start with 2 kids when 17, then 2 kids 27 and last kid 37 old you are OK

Agreed that is just what happens,but the ordinary working families are the ones who don't and then end up in poverty.I know two women who are pregnant now,,they both already have 3 children and the youngest are both 15,,so needing to have more now.

The left wont accept it happens though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the whole Labour did it to win elections. Imagine more than half of population dependant on the state hand outs. who would ever vote for Tories again ???

this is the reason why Greece collapsed. Any left or right political party in Greece would not cut the state spending as they would loose elections. And then the state collapsed.

so even Tories will not touch the working tax credits.

it seems that democracy is inherently unstable in this area.

if we are lucky we will get a manageable inflation, tax credits will be frozen and we will make it. or we get a hyper inflation or bankrupted state ...

That's the thing though the whole of Labour didn't understand it,and many who did wanted to stop it.Frank Field was supposed to handle welfare and would of done a very good job.He wouldn't have tax credits for the above reasons,he knew they were a trap and a disaster.Thats why Brown made sure he was sacked and also why Brown made out tax credits as not benefits.That way he removed them from the DWP and handed them to his area HMRC.He sold them to Blair as a tax cut for low earners,NOT a means tested benefit.

The Labour government was a disaster yes,but mostly through Brown (and Balls).Blair lost so much political capital over Iraq he couldn't reign Brown in.

Brown knew if he could get a good chunk of the population on benefits he could make sure of victory yes,but that wasn't running through a big chunk of Labour,,it was mainly Browns camp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- people earning less than £40k pa get all the free bees

That's ridiculous, hardworking taxpayers are now paying for other people to have bees they cannot afford themselves?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   211 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.