erranta Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) Clearly, unlike you. I'll try again; 1.) China, India, Vietnam, Brazil are being joined by an ever growing band of nations undertaking industrialisation. This will soon include hitherto untouched areas such as parts of Africa. 2.) These nations will create vast wealth 3.) We benefit by sharing in this wealth as we supply these nations with our services, expertise and some manufactured goods. This will include infrasructure services such as building hospitals and roads, regulatory expertise for thier burgoening insurance, mortgage and Banking markets, the output of the music and TV industry, specialist areas such as dealing with explosives, education, flight training, bio - tech, enviromental commerce such as flood prevention and alternative energy, the list is endless. 'WE' all benefit and house prices go - up. Industrial Revolution -> 2005 Space Age -> 2005 Yet still we have . . . . India - home to one third of the earth's poor below the poverty-line Over 1 BILLION people. 25% still live BELOW India's poverty line! 1.) China, India, Vietnam, Brazil are being joined by an ever growing band of nations undertaking industrialisation. This will soon include hitherto untouched areas such as parts of Africa. These countries are run by increasingly rich leaders that line their own pockets and oppress the rest of the population - manufacturing by slavery in everything but name! (As we have seen the UK is fast going down this route with the increasing reduction of the buying/spending power of the middle/mid-upper classes) 2.) These nations will create vast wealth But will it be spent on keeping the population in check and just increasing the wealth of a few lucky elitist chelsea owning individuals - such as happened in Russia and the Baltic States? As a scenario . . . . I see ASIA creating a massive industrial base which will increasingly threaten Western Nations on a war footing! Will we ask them to build our tanks/military vehicles in order to use them against them? 3.) We benefit by sharing in this wealth as we supply these nations with our services, expertise and some manufactured goods. This will include infrasructure services such as building hospitals and roads, regulatory expertise for thier burgoening insurance, mortgage and Banking markets, the output of the music and TV industry, specialist areas such as dealing with explosives, education, flight training, bio - tech, enviromental commerce such as flood prevention and alternative energy, the list is endless. Show me the evidence that British companies/navvies will be employed to build Roads, Hospitals in those countries! LOL They already have their own rip-off banks, pension and insurance industries - most don't trust Western ones! They don't need TV/Music industry - they just copy what they want to hear/listen to FOR PEANUTS/FREE! I can just see the USA letting us give away the latest advances in biological/explosives/flight training. Talk about training the enemy within Your lists are endless - dog-******! Edited November 21, 2005 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Your lists are endless - dog-******! In the end I forsee a period of global industrial expansion the like of which has never yet been seen in terms of pace and sheer size. In 20 years time we will see which of us is right. Erranta, you will be a life - long bear, the question is do you recognise this in yourself or even care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPOD Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 In the end I forsee a period of global industrial expansion the like of which has never yet been seen in terms of pace and sheer size. So why should this support UK house prices? The UK is a post-industrial economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Pirata Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Clearly, unlike you. I'll try again; 1.) China, India, Vietnam, Brazil are being joined by an ever growing band of nations undertaking industrialisation. This will soon include hitherto untouched areas such as parts of Africa. 2.) These nations will create vast wealth 3.) We benefit by sharing in this wealth as we supply these nations with our services, expertise and some manufactured goods. This will include infrasructure services such as building hospitals and roads, regulatory expertise for thier burgoening insurance, mortgage and Banking markets, the output of the music and TV industry, specialist areas such as dealing with explosives, education, flight training, bio - tech, enviromental commerce such as flood prevention and alternative energy, the list is endless. 'WE' all benefit and house prices go - up. Dogbox you should FEAR the day that these countries develop fully functioning domestic consumer markets. It means they will no longer have to lend their cash surplus to the likes of us and the Americans at cheap rates to keep us buying their output. Our currencies will then tank under the weight of our trade deficits. The only thing we do that they can't do at the moment is consume on a massive scale, but one day they won't need us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 So why should this support UK house prices? The UK is a post-industrial economy. C'mon IPOD!! We are part of planet earth. Planet earth at start of mass industrialisation. We will benefit as we will supply some of thier demand. I wont give another list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupidstunt Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I'll try again; 1.) China, India, Vietnam, Brazil are being joined by an ever growing band of nations undertaking industrialisation. This will soon include hitherto untouched areas such as parts of Africa. 2.) These nations will create vast wealth 3.) We benefit by sharing in this wealth as we supply these nations with our services, expertise and some manufactured goods. This will include infrasructure services such as building hospitals and roads, regulatory expertise for thier burgoening insurance, mortgage and Banking markets, the output of the music and TV industry, specialist areas such as dealing with explosives, education, flight training, bio - tech, enviromental commerce such as flood prevention and alternative energy, the list is endless. 'WE' all benefit and house prices go - up. Obviously from dogstalkbollocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) In the end I forsee a period of global industrial expansion the like of which has never yet been seen in terms of pace and sheer size. In 20 years time we will see which of us is right. Erranta, you will be a life - long bear, the question is do you recognise this in yourself or even care? i also see period of unprecedented global expansion........but at the expense of a lot of jobs in the developed overpaid world..............and this is already happening in places like France and Germany...........................Britain and america have held out longer owing to having more flexible labour markets............ but the lower skilled in the West get paid about 15 times as much as their Chinese counterparts and the professionals about 7 times a much........ We will of course get business from these countries as they have more money to spend but i just feel the wage differential is too great for the 85% of the World's population living in poor countries to close the gap.............................................the Western economies will rot away at the edges.............as globalisation intensifies............. Unlike Japan in the 60s and 70s and South Korea in the 70s and 80s and the US in the late 1800s China has an effectively unlimited supply of labour ...the population is around 1200 million....and this why even in the face of huge economic expansion manual workers there still get paid the same as they did 10 years ago.......about $100 a month........... There is a labour force big enough to manufacture everything needed in the world........ .... Edited November 21, 2005 by Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 i also see period of unprecedented global expansion........but at the expense of a lot of jobs in the developed overpaid world We in the developed world will undoubtedly loose the 'home' manufacturing capacity and indeed much of this function is done abroad and owned by us. We will meet the huge new demand for other skills. Its really hard to pick sectors that represent the embodyment of our future, but here goes; TV rights. Thats but one of thousands of sectors in which we excell. Another is insurance. We have had hundreds of years to fine tune the insurance sector. Africans and Asians want the peace of mind and capacity that is part and parcel of our insurance sector. Another is training. From Police to sub - aqua the UK are world leaders when it comes to training. Banking - talk to people in Asia. They will tell you they prefer to deal with UK Banks over thier own and for good reasons; Ours are highly regulated and covered. We are'nt the type to simply lie down and give - up. We will meet the new challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bart of Darkness Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 In the end I forsee a period of global industrial expansion the like of which has never yet been seen in terms of pace and sheer size. In 20 years time we will see which of us is right. Expansion fueled (pun intended) by what? If oil and gas were not becoming increasingly scarce it would be full speed ahead for a lot of these emerging economies. However the existing developed countries (the US in particular) will want to keep the majority of what's available for themselves. How are the Chinese going to sell us plastic encased tat if they don't have enough oil to make the plastic from let alone ship it to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 We in the developed world will undoubtedly loose the 'home' manufacturing capacity and indeed much of this function is done abroad and owned by us. We will meet the huge new demand for other skills. Its really hard to pick sectors that represent the embodyment of our future, but here goes; TV rights. Thats but one of thousands of sectors in which we excell. Another is insurance. We have had hundreds of years to fine tune the insurance sector. Africans and Asians want the peace of mind and capacity that is part and parcel of our insurance sector. Another is training. From Police to sub - aqua the UK are world leaders when it comes to training. Banking - talk to people in Asia. They will tell you they prefer to deal with UK Banks over thier own and for good reasons; Ours are highly regulated and covered. We are'nt the type to simply lie down and give - up. We will meet the new challenges. Dogbox more news to discredit your Fantasy World! China is getting REAL cocky because they have the USA wrappedup over the dollar! Was this the REAL REASON why Bush went there? Notice how quiet things have been whilst President Bush woz there! 21/11/05 CHINAGlobal financial markets are bracing for a second major scare in as many months as investors begin to question whether China will honour millions of dollars worth of copper futures trades. Emerging market bonds, equities and the currencies of commodity producing countries all face some fallout if confidence in China is shaken because investor faith in China's booming economy and huge purchasing power underpins optimism in virtually every asset class. But a missing trader and denials that China has a direct obligation for a short copper market position estimated at $200 million (116 million pounds) risks unsettling investors who are barely back on an even keel after the collapse of Refco, the huge U.S. commodities and futures brokerage, in a $430 million accounting scandal last month. "The world's financial markets are banking on China stepping up to the plate to keep things stable," said Paul Markowski, president of New York-based Global Strategies Analysis Group and veteran investment advisor on China. Past evidence from the handling of a $550 million oil derivatives scandal involving a Beijing-backed trader in Singapore late last year, as well as China's determination to prove itself a responsible global citizen, suggest that it will act to soothe investors' nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredTrainBuilder Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Dogbox more news to discredit your Fantasy World! China is getting REAL cocky because they have the USA wrappedup over the dollar! Was this the REAL REASON why Bush went there? Notice how quiet things have been whilst President Bush woz there! Fantasy World? Is that you, Erranta? Every time I see your avatar thingy I smell patchouli oil and hear conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Fantasy World? Is that you, Erranta? Every time I see your avatar thingy I smell patchouli oil and hear conspiracy theories. Dream on! You sound like one of those dogs that used to salivate when Pavlov rang a bell during his experiments Maybe you need more conditioner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 So why should this support UK house prices? The UK is a post-industrial economy. Post industrial = neo skint! We are an economy living off a rising mounting of debt and we will sink into poverty if we don't restore our industries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Its a simple argument really. We have finite resources, India and China want their share, thats 2 billion potential middle class people wanting to live like us. The cake is not big enough so we will all have to have less. Our standard of living will go down theirs will go up and we will meet in the middle. So i am afraid the globalisation is good argument is crap. We wont all get richer. Unless of course we grab those resources first ie Iraq. See you all in Iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munro Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 A friend of mine owns a textiles business. Twenty years ago he employed 30 people. Now he employs five, and every now and then employs casual labour to receive shipments of the stuff he used to make, from far eastern companies. He can't compete with them but he still does ok out of import-export. When I saw him recently he said as an economy we're in big trouble only we haven't realised it yet. Maybe there will be a massive global boom but for the majority of people in the UK it will be a levelling-out process, so most of us will end up poorer in real terms. Other peoples' half-full glasses will come about by siphoning off from ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredTrainBuilder Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Our standard of living will go down theirs will go up and we will meet in the middle. So i am afraid the globalisation is good argument is crap. We wont all get richer. That's not how the world works. Whenever did a levelling mechanism apply in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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