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Care Home Fees U-Turn To Hit Middle Classes


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No because nobody forces anyone to go into a care home, or they shouldn't force them......freedom means people can spend their money as they choose...... ;)

You're way off beam. We're talking vulnerable often demented elderly. By comparison:-

Residential shared accomodation for students = £80 per week.

Residential shared accomdoation for elderly = £500-£600+ per week (inc. food).

It's a scam by private sector landlords and their friends in Govt. Same as most other aspects of UK life.

The price is controlled not by cost but by what the market can stand, and local cartels controlling supply i.e. average house price that can be confiscated / avg mortality which raises it from £80 pw for a student to £600pw for elderly.

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This isn't about stealing the persons wealth.Its about making sure the children cant have that wealth passed down,and then their children.

The rich know the only way to escape poverty long term (In our economy) is for assets to be passed down the generations.They cant allow ordinary people that luxury.

The government needs all those decent hard working people in their late 40s ,50s to carry on working forever and to be in debt forever to pay for the 25% whol never work and the rentiers.

If they inherit they can pay off debts/retire/both.

They might also help pay off their childrens debts/mortgage etc.

The government needs to stop this happening.Destroying wages is only half the story,,they need to make sure no assets pass down as well.

Theres nothing wrong with paying for care,,but the people mostly who already have through tax and NI are the ones being creamed.

+2 I agree get everyone paying a huge mortgage for their best earning years then seize the property in the twighlight years to ensure the wealth isn't passed down, so the next generation has to continue on the treadmill.

However........I can't help but have a wry chuckle thinking about all those boomers, "hey now look, I...I...signed it over 7 years ago!"

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Would this be a situation where equity release could work?

Very probably.

Can you imagine the look on the faces of the local council employees when they discover all the useful equity in a big house is untouchable?:lol::lol::lol:

The elderly just have to make sure they officially give the max allowable away to the kids/ grand kids every year and plenty more as cash / difficult to trace assets.

Between the lawyers, accountants and financial institutions - it should be possible to create a suitable care fee avoidance instrument.:lol:

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One occasionally hears of cases where the local authority actively targets high equity old people by claiming their current arrangements are unsuitable and getting a court order moving them to a council home, with all the relevant fees immediately becoming payable. :angry:

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This isn't about stealing the persons wealth.Its about making sure the children cant have that wealth passed down,and then their children.

The rich know the only way to escape poverty long term (In our economy) is for assets to be passed down the generations.They cant allow ordinary people that luxury.

The government needs all those decent hard working people in their late 40s ,50s to carry on working forever and to be in debt forever to pay for the 25% whol never work and the rentiers.

If they inherit they can pay off debts/retire/both.

They might also help pay off their childrens debts/mortgage etc.

The government needs to stop this happening.Destroying wages is only half the story,,they need to make sure no assets pass down as well.

Theres nothing wrong with paying for care,,but the people mostly who already have through tax and NI are the ones being creamed.

Trashing pension annuities and low interest rates are doing the same. Once the savings are exhausted it will force people to do equity release so they spend their house and cannot pass it on.

The UK - debt from working age to grave.

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You're way off beam. We're talking vulnerable often demented elderly. By comparison:-

Residential shared accomodation for students = £80 per week.

Residential shared accomdoation for elderly = £500-£600+ per week (inc. food).

It's a scam by private sector landlords and their friends in Govt. Same as most other aspects of UK life.

The price is controlled not by cost but by what the market can stand, and local cartels controlling supply i.e. average house price that can be confiscated / avg mortality which raises it from £80 pw for a student to £600pw for elderly.

You honestly can't compare student costs with care homes. Care home fees include all meals and drinks, all laundry (often a lot) care and attention day. and night, inc. a lot of often very time consuming help with washing, dressing, eating, and toileting, as they like to call it. None of which can be rushed, esp with dementia. Plus of course very high hearing bills - heating is always warmer than usual since the elderly who don't move about much feel the cold more. If you work out fees per day for what is included, it usually does not seem so excessive.

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You honestly can't compare student costs with care homes. Care home fees include all meals and drinks, all laundry (often a lot) care and attention day. and night, inc. a lot of often very time consuming help with washing, dressing, eating, and toileting, as they like to call it. None of which can be rushed, esp with dementia. Plus of course very high hearing bills - heating is always warmer than usual since the elderly who don't move about much feel the cold more. If you work out fees per day for what is included, it usually does not seem so excessive.

Has anyone close to you ever been in a 'care' home? This is not a true reflection of what many are paying hundreds of pounds a week for.

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Has anyone close to you ever been in a 'care' home? This is not a true reflection of what many are paying hundreds of pounds a week for.

Those in care get 24 hour help....there are also warden assisted flats whereby you have a caretaker or somesuch, meaning that the older person is generally independent...My gran was in the former...suffered from dementia in the end...She was in a home for 6 months, whereas I have an aunt in the latter, whereby she gets regular home help.

AFAIK, the average length of stay in a care home, is 12 months..I can see why is becomes expensive...due to this 24 hour care.

I remember having an argument with a fellow work colleague 6 or 7 years ago, whereby by owning a house (then having to sell it) will mean you have an en-suite bathroom, or a slightly bigger bedroom in a care home, compared to if you rented for the rest of your life...

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It's not clear to me why someone who owns a valuable asset should not liquidate it to pay for long term residency in a care home- after all if they had a million in the bank they would be expected to us use that money to pay would they not?

Why is a house given this unique status?

I get the argument that these people have already paid onto the system and so should not have to pay for their medical costs- I agree with that- but to argue that simply because their wealth is in the form a house- one that they no longer need to live in- that they should not be expected to use that wealth to pay for their new residence and associated costs seems odd to me.

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Has anyone close to you ever been in a 'care' home? This is not a true reflection of what many are paying hundreds of pounds a week for.

Since you ask, my mother (95) has been in a specialist dementia home for over six years, and before that my father in law was in a residential and then a nursing home for four years. Mr B and I have also each had an aunt in care homes. So over the years I have been familiar with several.. I now visit my mother at least once a week and have done ever since she went in, so yes, I do think I have a fair idea of what is entailed in looking after such people. My mother is often up and wandering around half the night, not uncommon with dementia, and there is always someone around to keep an eye on her and reassure her if necessary. Despite what you read in the media about care homes there are some very good ones out there.

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You honestly can't compare student costs with care homes. Care home fees include all meals and drinks, all laundry (often a lot) care and attention day. and night, inc. a lot of often very time consuming help with washing, dressing, eating, and toileting, as they like to call it. None of which can be rushed, esp with dementia. Plus of course very high hearing bills - heating is always warmer than usual since the elderly who don't move about much feel the cold more. If you work out fees per day for what is included, it usually does not seem so excessive.

This hasn't really been my experience. The basic care home fees generally don't include much assistance, generally no more than about 1 hour a day. Room and board, heating/light, laundry and meals, and basic staffing of the home, is usually about as far as it goes

If the client needs more than 1 hour of assistance per day, then it's chargeable (typical rates I've been quoted are £20-25 per hour).

I recently did a lot of investigation into this for my grandmother, who at over 90 is rather frail. For somewhere close to relatives, just West of greater London, £750 was the minimum fee you could find, and that would get you a home that was pretty rough around the edges, and wasn't somewhere that you could reasonably wish to live if you had a choice. I had to move up the price range to about £1500 per week before I found a place with a suitable level of staffing, suitably maintained buildings, etc.

The more expensive private home wouldn't be financially viable. The sale of her current home wouldn't fund those fees for very long, and the rest of the family couldn't afford to pay the fees after the house-sale fund was depleted; that level of fees exceeds the sum take-home income of all surviving family members.

The relief among the family was palpable when I traced her decline and tendency to fall to a certain fondness to sleeping tablets; she'd overdose on them, and get completely wasted. A quick word with the GP to suggest that maybe they weren't such a good idea got her much more independent (but I now get a lot of angry phone calls at 2am about how she can't sleep).

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This hasn't really been my experience. The basic care home fees generally don't include much assistance, generally no more than about 1 hour a day. Room and board, heating/light, laundry and meals, and basic staffing of the home, is usually about as far as it goes

If the client needs more than 1 hour of assistance per day, then it's chargeable (typical rates I've been quoted are £20-25 per hour).

I recently did a lot of investigation into this for my grandmother, who at over 90 is rather frail. For somewhere close to relatives, just West of greater London, £750 was the minimum fee you could find, and that would get you a home that was pretty rough around the edges, and wasn't somewhere that you could reasonably wish to live if you had a choice. I had to move up the price range to about £1500 per week before I found a place with a suitable level of staffing, suitably maintained buildings, etc.

The more expensive private home wouldn't be financially viable. The sale of her current home wouldn't fund those fees for very long, and the rest of the family couldn't afford to pay the fees after the house-sale fund was depleted; that level of fees exceeds the sum take-home income of all surviving family members.

The relief among the family was palpable when I traced her decline and tendency to fall to a certain fondness to sleeping tablets; she'd overdose on them, and get completely wasted. A quick word with the GP to suggest that maybe they weren't such a good idea got her much more independent (but I now get a lot of angry phone calls at 2am about how she can't sleep).

Maybe we've been lucky, but in every home our relatives have been in, all care except hairdressers and chiropodists has been included.

Over the years we have looked at masses of care homes, and IMO the most expensive are not necessarily the best. In particular I would be wary of very fancy or 'stylish' decor. IMO this is to impress relatives who are choosing, and does not necessarily equate to good, kind, care. My instinct has often been the reverse. In some of these places you can almost hear the cash registers ringing.

Cosy and homely is the feel I would go for every time.

Edited by Mrs Bear
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Surely if youve got a spare room it would be much cheaper to get a live-in care worker and pay them a small wage plus free acomodation.

The trouble is that by the time someone is bad enough, either through physical or mental frailty, to need 24/7 care and supervision, one carer will often not be enough. People need their sleep, time off and breaks, and particularly with dementia sleep may be constantly disturbed. Or someone may need 2 people to lift them. Which means at least 2 people on shifts, and that doesn't come cheap, esp. when you take into account all the costs of running a home on top.

We looked at live in care for Mr b's father and his aunt, and both times (to get anyone trained and reliable, not just anybody) it worked out quite a bit more expensive than a reasonable care home. To be honest, people usually have to be pretty bad before relatives start thinking about care homes.

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Plus of course very high heating bills - heating is always warmer than usual since the elderly who don't move about much feel the cold more.

This got me thinking. This sector must be ripe for passive house technology. With a relatively high density of people in a home, they would provide most/all of the heating required, so heating bills would be tiny or non-existent. You'd also get improved air quality (in terms of humidity and particulates), and fewer drafts.

With the combination of running cost savings, and demonstrable health/quality of life improvements, this is a massive business opportunity imho.

Q

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  • 442 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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