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interestrateripoff

Vice-Chancellor Of Oxford Professor Andrew Hamilton Calls For £16,000 Tuition Fees

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http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/vicechancellor-of-oxford-professor-andrew-hamilton-calls-for-16000-tuition-fees-8867323.html

Leading universities should be able to charge fees substantially higher than the current £9,000-a-year ceiling to meet the cost of educating their students, the vice-chancellor of Oxford University said today.

Professor Andrew Hamilton argued that a university’s fees should be more in line with the cost of what it offers - and pointed out that it costs £16,000 a year to educate a student at Oxford.

As a result of being limited to £9,000 a year, Oxford saw a shortfall of £70 million a year in teaching income - which limited its ability to improve standards. Most of the income from increased fees had to be spent offsetting cuts in its budget from the Government.

Professor Hamilton took the opportunity of his annual oration to the university to launch what, in effect, was the start of a campaign to persuade ministers they had to start debating what would follow the £9,000 fee ceiling introduced in September 2012. His comments provoked an angry reaction from - amongst others - university lecturers who said higher fees were “not what this country needs”.

However, he won support from the Russell Group, which represents 24 of the country’s more selective higher education institutions, whose director general Dr Wendy Piatt warned: “Our leading institutions cannot continue to be internationally competitive, provide a first-rate teaching experience and offer generous support to disadvantaged students without access to increased funding."

So the poor will get to be able to attend places like Leeds Met, meanwhile the elite get to go to Oxford without the riff raff.

No surprise that the VC's want to increase fees once the genie was out of the bag fees where only going to go one way.

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Chinese students?

He probably knows how much the average Chinese person will pay to come here.

Edit:

This country is being sold to the Chinese IMPO no differently to Africa - we just command slightly different things IMPO.

Edited by The Masked Tulip

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Chinese students?

He probably knows how much the average Chinese person will pay to come here.

Edit:

This country is being sold to the Chinese IMPO no differently to Africa - we just command slightly different things IMPO.

Indeed, in my tutorial today I was astounded by the intelligence and motivation and good English of the Chinese students.

Also a new Nobel prize to the uk, well edinburgh, can't remember when someone at Oxford and Cambridge won a nobel, loads elsewhere in the uk... Wonder what they do with their money....

As a side issue I am something of a curiosity to them - a uk educated uk academic

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2012-05-24-01.jpg

Here's Dr Wendy marketing the Russell group to our Chinese customers.

I think they'll leave the 16K tuition fees as a problem for Milibang.

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However, he won support from the Russell Group, which represents 24 of the country’s more selective higher education institutions, whose director general Dr Wendy Piatt warned: “Our leading institutions cannot continue to be internationally competitive, provide a first-rate teaching experience and offer generous support to disadvantaged students without access to increased funding."

Just wondering, how did the uk's research universities fair in the world rankings since Wendy Piatt took her role at their head in 2007?

Can anyone comment?

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However, he won support from the Russell Group, which represents 24 of the country’s more selective higher education institutions, whose director general Dr Wendy Piatt warned: “Our leading institutions cannot continue to be internationally competitive, provide a first-rate teaching experience and offer generous support to disadvantaged students without access to increased funding."

Just wondering, how did the uk's research universities fair in the world rankings since Wendy Piatt took her role at their head in 2007?

Can anyone comment?

So many different rankings difficult to say

When I ask foreign students they say the uk/USA is the only choice if you can afford it... Really

Tbh it is one of the few exports we have left that people will pay for - don't knock it

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However, he won support from the Russell Group, which represents 24 of the country’s more selective higher education institutions, whose director general Dr Wendy Piatt warned: “Our leading institutions cannot continue to be internationally competitive, provide a first-rate teaching experience and offer generous support to disadvantaged students without access to increased funding."

I'll comment on the following how many of these highly paid institutes Profs/Drs spotted the great big fecking housing bubble and wrote about it.

For fairness I'll limit the query to the Politics and Economics departments who surely to feck employ people actually interested in the political economy of the UK.

Edited by interestrateripoff

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So many different rankings difficult to say

When I ask foreign students they say the uk/USA is the only choice if you can afford it... Really

Tbh it is one of the few exports we have left that people will pay for - don't knock it

That's fair enough, but advantages can be lost

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Indeed, in my tutorial today I was astounded by the intelligence and motivation and good English of the Chinese students.

Also a new Nobel prize to the uk, well edinburgh, can't remember when someone at Oxford and Cambridge won a nobel, loads elsewhere in the uk... Wonder what they do with their money....

As a side issue I am something of a curiosity to them - a uk educated uk academic

2012...so not that long ago really...

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More fees means pay rises all around.

I have no clue how giving a few lectures a week costs 9k a year, never mind 16k. Granted, to teach chemistry or medicine, more experiments have to be done, but the vast majority of teaching is just lectures with a few tutorials.

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2012...so not that long ago really...

Okay who I'll buy it - who was that?

Don't get me wrong I am not bitter and twisted, nothing wrong with elitism in my mind and my father/grandfather went Oxbridge...

Just seems at mo they are resting on their laurels, just my opinion

Without revealing too. Much I am a coauthor with some recent Nobel winners, they are brilliant I am just me. But the Oxbridge people I have dealt with are real ar******s and I am not exaggerating

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More fees means pay rises all around.

I have no clue how giving a few lectures a week costs 9k a year, never mind 16k. Granted, to teach chemistry or medicine, more experiments have to be done, but the vast majority of teaching is just lectures with a few tutorials.

I wonder how MOOCs (massive online lectures thingies) are expected to affect things - maybe academics will no longer be required to be time management lecture drones and instead be more differentiated with respect to their tutoring and research, maybe this is what Oxbridge think at any rate, maybe they think MOOCs will RAISE their differentiated value in the sector?

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Okay who I'll buy it - who was that?

Don't get me wrong I am not bitter and twisted, nothing wrong with elitism in my mind and my father/grandfather went Oxbridge...

Just seems at mo they are resting on their laurels, just my opinion

Without revealing too. Much I am a coauthor with some recent Nobel winners, they are brilliant I am just me. But the Oxbridge people I have dealt with are real ar******s and I am not exaggerating

Depends on subjects/individuals. The academic types I met from Oxford have been very smart and not arrogant (thankfully, since a senior one was my external examiner). I know a couple of less senior science academics and they are spot on too. That said, it only takes one.. but often people who are arrogant etc are less effective at getting things done and suffer against equally smart types who are happy to crack on. Maybe for some the kudos goes to their head.

The boards here are populated by at least one DPhil and if Cambridge use the same terminology then that makes at least two I think. And bloody good they are too.

Edited by The B.L.T.

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Okay who I'll buy it - who was that?

Don't get me wrong I am not bitter and twisted, nothing wrong with elitism in my mind and my father/grandfather went Oxbridge...

Just seems at mo they are resting on their laurels, just my opinion

Without revealing too. Much I am a coauthor with some recent Nobel winners, they are brilliant I am just me. But the Oxbridge people I have dealt with are real ar******s and I am not exaggerating

14 since the year 2000.

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/research-at-cambridge/nobel-prize-winners

Admittedly not all did their research whilst at Cambridge but seem to be claimed by them anyway!

Edited by Timak

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Why only 16000 p/a? Why not double it? Heck, why not add a zero? The loans required are never going to be paid anyway, and if a person does earn a higher salary the new repayment scheme guarantees a compound ratcheting of the principal that returns such a deliciously fat revenue stream to the creditor that it's almost too delectable for a lender to pass up.

The telegraph headline today was that kids are getting worse and worse at Mathematics. They'll lap this up.

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Depends on subjects/individuals. The academic types I met from Oxford have been very smart and not arrogant (thankfully, since a senior one was my external examiner). I know a couple of less senior science academics and they are spot on too. That said, it only takes one.. but often people who are arrogant etc are less effective at getting things done and suffer against equally smart types who are happy to crack on. Maybe for some the kudos goes to their head.

The boards here are populated by at least one DPhil and if Cambridge use the same terminology then that makes at least two I think. And bloody good they are too.

I have sat at an international conference and seen data I sent to a colleague at Cambridge past off as their own, yes I know an isolated insidence and I should have stood up and complained but I didn't - live and learn I suppose

They subsequently got a £40m grant from the Erc on the back of it....

Ho hum....

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So many different rankings difficult to say

When I ask foreign students they say the uk/USA is the only choice if you can afford it... Really

Tbh it is one of the few exports we have left that people will pay for - don't knock it

And yet Goa doesn't want Brit tourists anymore - they don't spend as much as the dudes from India.

There's levelling. And then you get levelled.

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So many different rankings difficult to say

When I ask foreign students they say the uk/USA is the only choice if you can afford it... Really

Tbh it is one of the few exports we have left that people will pay for - don't knock it

These students aren't thinking straight. They are 18-22 year old kids Frankly, the majority of students regardless of their country of origin have no clue why they are really going to university, other than it being the done thing. Granted, there are a minority who actually have the clarity at that age to know exactly what they want out of life and which course to do. UK Universities are cash cows, nothing more. The foreign students are paying over the odds just like the natives.

I count myself amongst as one of those misguided fools by the way. Went to a top Uni, did a 'proper' course and honestly believe that it could have been compressed into 3 months. I'd have done far, far better to sack it off, take some time exploring the world of work and starting my own business/doing a course that once I felt truly ready to do something that I felt was worthwhile - and even then, the teaching quality I experienced implies that the course could have been learnt in 10% of the time. And that was before the time when the availability and accessibility of free information online had reached the level it has today.

edit - those who really, really should be at uni/benefit from an academic environment tend to stay and do a doctorate. For the others, it really is a three year waste to get a piece of paper IMHO.

Edited by Frugal Git

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These students aren't thinking straight. They are 18-22 year old kids Frankly, the majority of students regardless of their country of origin have no clue why they are really going to university, other than it being the done thing. Granted, there are a minority who actually have the clarity at that age to know exactly what they want out of life and which course to do. UK Universities are cash cows, nothing more. The foreign students are paying over the odds just like the natives.

I count myself amongst as one of those misguided fools by the way. Went to a top Uni, did a 'proper' course and honestly believe that it could have been compressed into 3 months. I'd have done far, far better to sack it off, take some time exploring the world of work and starting my own business/doing a course that once I felt truly ready to do something that I felt was worthwhile - and even then, the teaching quality I experienced implies that the course could have been learnt in 10% of the time. And that was before the time when the availability and accessibility of free information online had reached the level it has today.

edit - those who really, really should be at uni/benefit from an academic environment tend to stay and do a doctorate. For the others, it really is a three year waste to get a piece of paper IMHO.

I admit to being surprised about their confidence on this issue...

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I admit to being surprised about their confidence on this issue...

The most successful people I know either didn't go to Uni or are now doing something entirely unrelated to their degree course.

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