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So It's That Time


Soul Reaver
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You know I thought once that when I get to 5k a month ill be so rich all my problems will be over etc etc. It's a fallacy. As you earn more and you learn and understand how HARD it is to make lots of money value becomes more important, security also becomes more important because you don't want to have to go through the dreaded re-set.

You say "even if you lose 250k on your dream home" as though nothing else would have happened in that scenario! Our jobs would also have gone too.

Our jobs and lifestyle (I race cars and am part of a team) would go in a downturn like that and then we would be left with no money coming in but a big house to service. If we don't take on large debt like getting the dream 1 mill home and having a 500k mortgage for example then even if that happened we would have other opportunity's and no large stress.

Were not tight by any means. I spend 2k a month on motorsport minimum every month and last year my yearly costs were over 30 grand but we do everything cash so its affordable. Debt worries me.

No offense but I think your main problem is that you lack perspective. Aside from that, if you're really worried about a crash just rent a nice place in zone 2 (zone 1 too weird), you'll hardly notice the rent going out.

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You know I thought once that when I get to 5k a month ill be so rich all my problems will be over etc etc. It's a fallacy. As you earn more and you learn and understand how HARD it is to make lots of money value becomes more important, security also becomes more important because you don't want to have to go through the dreaded re-set.

You say "even if you lose 250k on your dream home" as though nothing else would have happened in that scenario! Our jobs would also have gone too.

Our jobs and lifestyle (I race cars and am part of a team) would go in a downturn like that and then we would be left with no money coming in but a big house to service. If we don't take on large debt like getting the dream 1 mill home and having a 500k mortgage for example then even if that happened we would have other opportunity's and no large stress.

Were not tight by any means. I spend 2k a month on motorsport minimum every month and last year my yearly costs were over 30 grand but we do everything cash so its affordable. Debt worries me.

Is motorsport your main income? Do you need to live in London? Plenty of cheap houses near Brands Hatch or Silverstone.

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Wifey god bless her is talking more and more about

A. A baby

B. A home

Options on the table are as follows

1. Buy home here, nothing too extravagant 400k tops

2. Stay with her sister and wait, a bit (being doing that for quite a few years now I might add)!!

3. Pack up and move to Dubai. A place we both enjoy a lot. Rent somewhere nice or buy and start a business in the sun.

We are relatively cash rich netting about 20k a month so we save quite a lot.

What do you think?

Heaven help us - you're NETTING £20k a month and you're too tight to buy a house?

Words almost fail me.

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Heaven help us - you're NETTING £20k a month and you're too tight to buy a house?

Words almost fail me.

There's a few of them on the forum, still adding to their huge piles of savings, refusing to buy. I can understand their position when they're looking at houses at the mid-to-upper end. Had it explained to me time and again, how the savings to be had are immense, in a HPC for the sort of homes they want to buy at the mid-to-upper end At the higher end outside SE/London, we've already seen some of that at the upper end of the market. Although some high-income earners don't have long term job security, and so should be very cautious with their money and value in buying.

This house (below) did sell for the reduced price of £2m recently, down from a world where owners and EAs thought them worth £5m in 2007. A lot further to go imo, during the next legs as more people look to sell, and accept lower prices for similar houses. Although the OP could rent something nice, and as Si1 says, a high-income career wife should understand renting is not 'dead money' vs massively overpriced house values.

http://www.rightmove...y-33717502.html

The write up can`t be genuine? It sounds like it was written by someone on here? That is REAL desperate crash talk there, too truthful to be written by an EA? More like a begging letter :lol:

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The amount of money is not or should not be the priority concern.You have enough and a bit extra. Why so serious? What do you and your wife want to do? What would make you happy? Make you challenged and excited about getting up each day? What would you have to have done during the day, to then sit at dinner and talk about how fortunate you are?

That's a luxury not many can afford. Go forth and be happy...

:)

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There's a few of them on the forum, still adding to their huge piles of savings, refusing to buy. I can understand their position when they're looking at houses at the mid-to-upper end. Had it explained to me time and again, how the savings to be had are immense, in a HPC for the sort of homes they want to buy at the mid-to-upper end At the higher end outside SE/London, we've already seen some of that at the upper end of the market. Although some high-income earners don't have long term job security, and so should be very cautious with their money and value in buying.

This house (below) did sell for the reduced price of £2m recently, down from a world where owners and EAs thought them worth £5m in 2007. A lot further to go imo, during the next legs as more people look to sell, and accept lower prices for similar houses. Although the OP could rent something nice, and as Si1 says, a high-income career wife should understand renting is not 'dead money' vs massively overpriced house values.

http://www.rightmove...y-33717502.html

Very nice place and behold at over the 50% discount Soul Reaver was looking for. I think he has spend so much time building up his income he hasn't noticed how much prices in some areas at the top end of the market have come down! Maybe he really wants a huge place in London!

I understand how you don't stop looking for value as your income increases but with an income of 20k a month you really shouldn't be living with your wife's sister?! You can afford to live/do whatever you want! What expenses do you have apart from the 2k motor racing? Is 20k before or after tax? How much rent to do pay her? Do you pay any of the bills?

Anyway, this post has really opened my eyes to how deep the illness of house ownership is in this country. you are so consumed with house prices and getting a good deal, buying your dream home, buying at the bottom of the dip! You seem unable to see that your income puts you well into the 1% and you need not worry so much about such things! You seen some of the places that you could rent! Renting isn't dead money, in the end we are though! and money has no real value, it what you do with it that matters!

Btw, I only earn 2.4k per month and have a little additional income from the savings/investments. But I'm paying 1k a month rent (the cheapest I can find at suitable size). I save, by doing as little as possible and I also trying to keep my expenses as low as possible. I'm probably better off than some on here but you my friend are in a different ball park. Buy, rent or move to another country you are rich enough to do what you want and if you say that 20k per month doesn't make you rich then there is something wrong with your understanding of your cash flow!

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You say "even if you lose 250k on your dream home" as though nothing else would have happened in that scenario! Our jobs would also have gone too.

Our jobs and lifestyle (I race cars and am part of a team) would go in a downturn like that and then we would be left with no money coming in but a big house to service. If we don't take on large debt like getting the dream 1 mill home and having a 500k mortgage for example then even if that happened we would have other opportunity's and no large stress.

Were not tight by any means. I spend 2k a month on motorsport minimum every month and last year my yearly costs were over 30 grand but we do everything cash so its affordable. Debt worries me.

I know exactly where your coming from, when you get to the top of the income range you become (if youve got any sense) very aware that its easy-come-easy-go. I also fully get the angle that when youve worked hard, taken risks, and made all the right choices to get to this position the last thing you want to do with your cash is hand it over to some feckless tw*t whos done nothing but been lucky enough to park his **** in a house at the right time.

Even if the OP is saving say 10k a month, taking a 250K hit represents 2 years of savings blown away. Who here, no matter what their income level can say they honest wouldn't care if they lost 2 years of their savings ?.

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I know exactly where your coming from, when you get to the top of the income range you become (if youve got any sense) very aware that its easy-come-easy-go. I also fully get the angle that when youve worked hard, taken risks, and made all the right choices to get to this position the last thing you want to do with your cash is hand it over to some feckless tw*t whos done nothing but been lucky enough to park his **** in a house at the right time.

Even if the OP is saving say 10k a month, taking a 250K hit represents 2 years of savings blown away. Who here, no matter what their income level can say they honest wouldn't care if they lost 2 years of their savings ?.

It should perhaps be pointed out that fancy houses in London being incredibly expensive and people earning 20K a month net (in London) are two sides of the same coin. So arguing that you want 'value' when it comes to buying a million pound house is somewhat circular. In other words, the reason that some 'feckless tw*t' can demand an extra 200K for his London terrace is the same reason that Soul Reaver is pulling in such a high income post 2008 - QE, low interest rates and bank bailouts. I may be wrong, but someone earning this money and who has also worked in Switzerland and Dubai is probably in some sort of finance, business or legal service - the very industries that were rescued by the government during the crash. You can't really complain about a house price bubble when the very same forces are sustaining your own high income. If this guy and his Mrs are actually EastEnder actors or plastic surgeons then I apologise for jumping to conclusions.

Besides, I still think choosing to live in Slough when you're so wealthy (and profess to hate commuting) is pathological behaviour.

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I know exactly where your coming from, when you get to the top of the income range you become (if youve got any sense) very aware that its easy-come-easy-go. I also fully get the angle that when youve worked hard, taken risks, and made all the right choices to get to this position the last thing you want to do with your cash is hand it over to some feckless tw*t whos done nothing but been lucky enough to park his **** in a house at the right time.

Even if the OP is saving say 10k a month, taking a 250K hit represents 2 years of savings blown away. Who here, no matter what their income level can say they honest wouldn't care if they lost 2 years of their savings ?.

Thanks. You hit the nail on the head. Yes we do save 10 to 12k a month and it is that that made me realize how MUCH 50 grand is let alone 250! People roll these numbers off their tongue like they mean nothing.

It also a bit more complex in that my career has mainly been in Europe for 13 years with a spell in the mid east. I used to do a weekly commute with the red eye flight on a Monday morning at 6am. So we have always put off buying because I had an apartment and was only home at weekends. We both contract in IT. Over the years my industry has been steadily taken over by Indians who now sit at all the desks in the Uk (floors full of them) and Europe where my mates used to sit, the rest of the work is sent to India. Switzerland was a classic. When I started there were 4 Indians and when I left (when my job was taken over by one of them) There were 200 of them on one floor! Munich was the same as the whole of 02 was outsourced to Wipro and has not come back, that was over 200 jobs for contractors gone.

We only survive because we have such strong CV's between us, but we are also only 4 weeks away from notice and then not getting that next contract as there are fewer and fewer. We are investing in other businesses for the day when that last contract comes or the rates get silly low to make it not worth my while putting up with the office ******** anymore.

PS

No I don't work in motorsport I just enjoy it but golf is way cheaper LOL

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Thanks. You hit the nail on the head. Yes we do save 10 to 12k a month and it is that that made me realize how MUCH 50 grand is let alone 250! People roll these numbers off their tongue like they mean nothing.

It also a bit more complex in that my career has mainly been in Europe for 13 years with a spell in the mid east. I used to do a weekly commute with the red eye flight on a Monday morning at 6am. So we have always put off buying because I had an apartment and was only home at weekends. We both contract in IT. Over the years my industry has been steadily taken over by Indians who now sit at all the desks in the Uk (floors full of them) and Europe where my mates used to sit, the rest of the work is sent to India. Switzerland was a classic. When I started there were 4 Indians and when I left (when my job was taken over by one of them) There were 200 of them on one floor! Munich was the same as the whole of 02 was outsourced to Wipro and has not come back, that was over 200 jobs for contractors gone.

We only survive because we have such strong CV's between us, but we are also only 4 weeks away from notice and then not getting that next contract as there are fewer and fewer. We are investing in other businesses for the day when that last contract comes or the rates get silly low to make it not worth my while putting up with the office ******** anymore.

PS

No I don't work in motorsport I just enjoy it but golf is way cheaper LOL

Aha. IT Contractors then, apologies for suggesting you were bankers. I'm still amazed that you're so scared of losing everything. You're saying the bottom has fallen out of the market due to Indian workers and all your old mates have been laid off but you're currently working for about £100 an hour? think about it.

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Aha. IT Contractors then, apologies for suggesting you were bankers. I'm still amazed that you're so scared of losing everything. You're saying the bottom has fallen out of the market due to Indian workers and all your old mates have been laid off but you're currently working for about £100 an hour? think about it.

Bankers! God forbid :)

No I'm not saying the bottom has fallen out. I'm saying we live in uncertain times both job/career wise and large purchase wise and it's a difficult decision. Buy here, move to Dubai.

My guy feeling is this. Interest rates will rise within 2 to 3 years and it will be gradual and inexorable. All the over leveraged (probably 50% of Uk mortgage holders today) will gradually be screwed right out their front doors just like in the 90s. Interest rates are merciless once they start. The politicians will ring their hands but nothing will be done.

Anyway we decided last night that we are going to continue building our pot and investing in small business and move to Dubai next year and start a business there. I honestly only see this country getting worse and worse over the next 20 years as I approach retirement

More people

Worse services

Worse roads

More crime

Can I mention the weather?

Can I add in here that my gut feelings over the past 6 years have been known to be quite wrong LOL

Edited by Soul Reaver
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You've been right enough times in your life to give you a great income and partner. Being wrong twice wrt to house prices shouldn't be no never mind compared to your successes.

One possible scenario is that instead of house prices crashing, the value of fiat tanks. This would give the greater fools a paper profit when selling their houses but in real terms a huge loss, a big loss also for you and other savers.

A possible 25% loss in your house value (that only applies if you sell) or maybe an even bigger hit if you don't buy and fiat really tanks. In your position, I'd take the risk of a 25% drop in house prices as a value for money insurance against the risk of your savings becoming next to worthless. Prices will change but it's still a house that you will enjoy living in. Get something in good condition and you can virtually ignore the upkeep for a decade or two if things go pear shaped.

There was a thread here some years ago where the OP was 'sick to his stomach' worrying about his STR fund. Made me think that if his STR fund doubled he would be twice as sick.

Edited by John51
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Anyway we decided last night that we are going to continue building our pot and investing in small business and move to Dubai next year and start a business there. I honestly only see this country getting worse and worse over the next 20 years as I approach retirement

More people

Worse services

Worse roads

More crime

Can I mention the weather?

Can I add in here that my gut feelings over the past 6 years have been known to be quite wrong LOL

Well I would be surprised if Dubai is better than the UK. It may have a benevolent ruler at the moment but that can change suddenly. Its far too hot as well.

Sure there are parts of the UK that are unpleasant but there are also some wonderfully pleasant areas. More importantly in my opinion is the political stability we take for granted. We're nowhere near a police state, despite what the Daily Mail would have us believe.

With your income you should be totally financially independent by now, even if you just used passive trackers. £210k gross each is beyond the reach of most of us, your tax bill is greater than my income. Saving £10k a month would mean you could purchase the average house outright in 18 months. The gross yield from renting out a house is far better than any deposit account and has carried far less risk than equities even if you look back only as far as 2008.

I don't know whether to believe youor whether your just trying to be provocative. It would certainly be pleasant for me to have a problem like yours. I can only really liken it to my day dreaming about what I'm going to do with my lottery win, if only they would pull out the right numbers!

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If you think the income will drop you ought to be drawing less from your company to reduce your tax liability in any given financial year. Draw down 3k a month each then when it stops you can keep drawing 3k a month for however long the pot lasts. After tax 6k a month still gives you plenty of options, taking it all at once and taking the tax hit and then buying a place without a mortgage is probably more expensive than a repayment mortgage over a longer period. Netting 20k sounds very expensive to me from a tax perspective and makes me question the honesty of these figures

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If you think the income will drop you ought to be drawing less from your company to reduce your tax liability in any given financial year. Draw down 3k a month each then when it stops you can keep drawing 3k a month for however long the pot lasts. After tax 6k a month still gives you plenty of options, taking it all at once and taking the tax hit and then buying a place without a mortgage is probably more expensive than a repayment mortgage over a longer period. Netting 20k sounds very expensive to me from a tax perspective and makes me question the honesty of these figures

2 IT contractors could net 20k, depending on their skillsets.

Your tax advice will be wasted, they're probably offshoring stuff already, when a couple's income is that high and there are multiple bank accounts in differet countries all sorts of things are possible, some of them are even 100% legal.

I wouldn't be jealous either, this chap's mental state is nothing to envy, I know it all too well. Rich and poor at the same time.

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2 IT contractors could net 20k, depending on their skillsets.

Your tax advice will be wasted, they're probably offshoring stuff already, when a couple's income is that high and there are multiple bank accounts in differet countries all sorts of things are possible, some of them are even 100% legal.

I wouldn't be jealous either, this chap's mental state is nothing to envy, I know it all too well. Rich and poor at the same time.

Bit harsh this. I'm in the same position of earning a fair whack, but starting from a very low base indeed it makes you aware of how damned hard it is to save - which means that the awareness of how you can lose it all easily if you make the wrong choice by over committing on debt is always there.

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Bit harsh this. I'm in the same position of earning a fair whack, but starting from a very low base indeed it makes you aware of how damned hard it is to save - which means that the awareness of how you can lose it all easily if you make the wrong choice by over committing on debt is always there.

Actually perhaps it didn't come across, but I know the feeling and have an element of sympathy. I also know the feeling is wrong in most cases.

You aren't going to live for ever, and neither is SoulReaver.

However at least he has a likeminded wife so stands a chance of benefiting from his prudence one day.

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Actually perhaps it didn't come across, but I know the feeling and have an element of sympathy. I also know the feeling is wrong in most cases.

You aren't going to live for ever, and neither is SoulReaver.

However at least he has a likeminded wife so stands a chance of benefiting from his prudence one day.

Aye, I agree with only one life you have to enjoy the present. Hence me and the missus make sure we travel a lot, spend time with friends and family, and live life to the full - whilst not being unaware of the value of money. She actually apologised to me when I got home for spending money on an impluse purchase of a pair of shorts. I expected some mental gucci price - nope, 40 buck aussie equivalent. Damn tight too :P. As long as she sees that sort of budget as worth noticing, I'm happy!

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2 IT contractors could net 20k, depending on their skillsets.

Your tax advice will be wasted, they're probably offshoring stuff already, when a couple's income is that high and there are multiple bank accounts in differet countries all sorts of things are possible, some of them are even 100% legal.

I wouldn't be jealous either, this chap's mental state is nothing to envy, I know it all too well. Rich and poor at the same time.

By net I assumed it meant take home pay. Ltd company is the usual way to do this, in fact its very hard not to do it that way, drawing that much per month from the company is not sensible was my point. I understand all sorts of things are possible, but 100% legal remains to be seen for many such as the employee benefit trust wheeze. It is certainly easy to draw a low salary and take the rest as dividends and still end up with 3k a month each take home, any more than that and you go into the higher rate band which makes drawing 20k out even between two people rather daft. Hence it sounds like a strange story.

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By net I assumed it meant take home pay. Ltd company is the usual way to do this, in fact its very hard not to do it that way, drawing that much per month from the company is not sensible was my point. I understand all sorts of things are possible, but 100% legal remains to be seen for many such as the employee benefit trust wheeze. It is certainly easy to draw a low salary and take the rest as dividends and still end up with 3k a month each take home, any more than that and you go into the higher rate band which makes drawing 20k out even between two people rather daft. Hence it sounds like a strange story.

Really, 20k net (ie eventual take home, the key word being eventual) between two good contractors is doable, trust me.

I expect it's really, really expensive staying at his relatives place, plus every meal is a luxury spread costing loads. ;) Then there's the company in "name-your-haven" that subcontracts both of their services out to the UK ltd company. Etc, etc, etc.

IR35? Don't make me laugh. The tax take from contractors dropped after that because it p*ssed so many of them off and they put their brains to work.

It's hard to accept if you're a normal taxpayer, but the rules are all against you and in favour of people who earn loads and who are a little bit ingenious, because the people who make the laws earn loads. If you're middle-class middle-income PAYE, you're subsidising everybody.

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