Killer Bunny Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Nothing new Edited October 8, 2013 by Killer Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Nothing new Government raises main living cost, i.e housing through various schemes. People then have to work more hours to be able to afford one. So people pay more taxes to government. Joint income mortgages have created work slaves of women who wanted to look after their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Government raises main living cost, i.e housing through various schemes. People then have to work more hours to be able to afford one. So people pay more taxes to government. Joint income mortgages have created work slaves of women who wanted to look after their children. Then the uncared for kids start looting and rioting in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 <br />Government raises main living cost, i.e housing through various schemes. People then have to work more hours to be able to afford one. So people pay more taxes to government. Joint income mortgages have created work slaves of women who wanted to look after their children.<br /><br /><br /><br />indeed like the pied Piper they asked for willing slaves to work off the national debt over the next 20 years and people have joyfully volunteered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlemalt Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Good blog. That guy gets it. Tbh I think more and more people "get it" everyday but we're massively outnumbered by those that either don't get it or don't care because someone else (us and the children of people like us) will pay for the clean up job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Posted by Jonathan Davis on 7 October 2013 Chap used to post here did he not? Also been on the media from time to time banging the HPC drum. A brand new blog (this sort is the first real entry)...... http://jonathandaviswm.wordpress.com/about/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 <br />Good blog. That guy gets it. Tbh I think more and more people "get it" everyday but we're massively outnumbered by those that either don't get it or don't care because someone else (us and the children of people like us) will pay for the clean up job.<br /><br /><br /><br />no these people ARE the clean up job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Chap used to post here did he not? Also been on the media from time to time banging the HPC drum. A brand new blog (this sort is the first real entry)...... http://jonathandaviswm.wordpress.com/about/ You know when you're in a room full of people who have been let in on the secret and you haven't? He still posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 That was unwarrented. Should I retract? The tragic thing is not being unaware of the situation but those of us who remember the less than savoury events that led up to it. Shame as I liked the other posters but as I remember they went too far not JD over stepping the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Should I retract? The tragic thing is not being unaware of the situation but those of us who remember the less than savoury events that led up to it. Shame as I liked the other posters but as I remember they went too far not JD over stepping the mark. Hmm... I guess you are referring to events from before I joined. I always assumed it was an open secret. I guess it's up to the poster concerned and I don't really know where they stand. Edited October 8, 2013 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 You know when you're in a room full of people who have been let in on the secret and you haven't? He still posts. I guessed he had changed his username and continues to post to this day, no idea who it is though. I am vaguely aware of some rumpus and a spat which occurred a while back, never concerned me though so I took no notice. Already too many prima donnas in the World chucking toys out of prams!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldTooSoon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I initially thought that HTB2 would cause house prices to rise but now I'm not so sure. I was listening to a piece on Radio 4 this morning and was suprised that the best rate a new borrower will get is 5%, the government are charging the banks .99% premium for the loan guarantee which is a cost that will be passed onto the borrower and there will be a very strict lending criteria, i.e. proper credit checks and proof of income, no more liar loans and no more interest only loans. I can't help but think that the slight uptick in prices and market activity we've seen in recent months is based more on anticipation of HTB2 than anything else. Buy the rumour, sell the news, as they say! The average joint income of a British family is £40K The average UK house price is £170,000 So deposit required £8.5K (still a bit of a stretch for many people), Mortgage required £161.5K 3 x joint income(40K) = £120K Can you see where I'm coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The average joint income of a British family is £40K The average UK house price is £170,000 So deposit required £8.5K (still a bit of a stretch for many people), Mortgage required £161.5K Then, regardless of whatever ludicrous price a house is, that person/family should not be buying a house. If you can't save 8.5k, you have no business getting involved in leveraged transactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Then, regardless of whatever ludicrous price a house is, that person/family should not be buying a house. If you can't save 8.5k, you have no business getting involved in leveraged transactions. Absolutely no-one in the mainstream has questioned the idea that if something is plainly too expensive for someone then making it easier to borrow more money in order to buy it is not a good idea. Like QE, once you start this policy you can't stop it without precipitating an almighty crash that's bigger than what you sought to prevent in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Then, regardless of whatever ludicrous price a house is, that person/family should not be buying a house. If you can't save 8.5k, you have no business getting involved in leveraged transactions. ....agree that is how it should be in a sane market......but because they are selling out our future generations big time, they are purposely tweaking it so that the prices are rising higher each month than the amount of money that it is possible to save each month.....not everyone has lucrative jobs and rich parents that can give all their children nice bungs of house deposits and still support themselves in the manner they have become accustomed to. It would appear that "people who don't have rich parents" is the new point they've all been told to emphasise. Some people I fear live in an entirely different world to the rest of the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Absolutely no-one in the mainstream has questioned the idea that if something is plainly too expensive for someone then making it easier to borrow more money in order to buy it is not a good idea. Like QE, once you start this policy you can't stop it without precipitating an almighty crash that's bigger than what you sought to prevent in the first place. Exactly. The most infuriating thing about this Help to buy hype is the never ending queue of numpties (and I'm talking about the childless ones) hey quote saying 'I earn an above average salary but can't save a deposit' and the idea this policy helps them. What would help these people is a flipping reality check by someone informing they are either finanically incompetent or living a champagne life on beer money. And now, they are bidding up a stupidly expensive asset even further because of the help from those lovely men in suits who must have their best interests at heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygivenup Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Like QE, once you start this policy you can't stop it without precipitating an almighty crash that's bigger than what you sought to prevent in the first place. +1 The mindset in the UK is that residential property prices do not go down, so whichever bunch of crooks is put in charge will do whatever they the can to continue price increases, HTB is the current weeze when it runs out there will be another along to replace it. I have no idea what that will be, or when but as sure as God made little apples there will be another. This will continue for years yet. If you have been saving and waiting for a large correction before buying I fear that time may never come for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 ....agree that is how it should be in a sane market......but because they are selling out our future generations big time, they are purposely tweaking it so that the prices are rising higher each month than the amount of money that it is possible to save each month.....not everyone has lucrative jobs and rich parents that can give all their children nice bungs of house deposits and still support themselves in the manner they have become accustomed to. That can only last for a very, very short time without stratospheric problems/wage inflation now. We had that from 1997-2007 already. Trying that trick again now surely cannot be sustained. Unless you make mortgages a hundred years long to bring the monthly paymtents down of course - but really, the sheep must realise that a long mortgage on a starter home is absolutely stupid eventually, especially when even that is swallowing 40% of their take home with ZIRP. Or maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 +1 The mindset in the UK is that residential property prices do not go down, so whichever bunch of crooks is put in charge will do whatever they the can to continue price increases, HTB is the current weeze when it runs out there will be another along to replace it. I have no idea what that will be, or when but as sure as God made little apples there will be another. This will continue for years yet. If you have been saving and waiting for a large correction before buying I fear that time may never come for you. I don't think any of the ultrabears (like me) even care any more. Our 'deposits' now represent a lot more than a house - to me it's a symbol of everything that I have seen. A vast pile of bank credit that I've accumulated through living sensibly whilst everyone else loses their mind. It offers me a lot of different options, and the opportunity cost of handing that over for a pile of bricks now (at these prices) is unpalatable. Others can chain themselves down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 +1 The mindset in the UK is that residential property prices do not go down, so whichever bunch of crooks is put in charge will do whatever they the can to continue price increases, HTB is the current weeze when it runs out there will be another along to replace it. I have no idea what that will be, or when but as sure as God made little apples there will be another. This will continue for years yet. If you have been saving and waiting for a large correction before buying I fear that time may never come for you. so speaketh the Ponzi apologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eztiger Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I don't think any of the ultrabears (like me) even care any more. Our 'deposits' now represent a lot more than a house - to me it's a symbol of everything that I have seen. A vast pile of bank credit that I've accumulated through living sensibly whilst everyone else loses their mind. It offers me a lot of different options, and the opportunity cost of handing that over for a pile of bricks now (at these prices) is unpalatable. Others can chain themselves down. +1 Ive been living a very frugal lifestyle for close to 7 years now, saving hard to buy a house in the SW only to see the bar being raised continually in this farce of a property market. My thoughts mirror yours exactly, I now look at my savings not as a house deposit but as simply capital to allow be to stay liquid and help keep me aloat in the coming future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I don't think any of the ultrabears (like me) even care any more. Our 'deposits' now represent a lot more than a house - to me it's a symbol of everything that I have seen. A vast pile of bank credit that I've accumulated through living sensibly whilst everyone else loses their mind. It offers me a lot of different options, and the opportunity cost of handing that over for a pile of bricks now (at these prices) is unpalatable. Others can chain themselves down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 There could be more to it.Mostly people who buy a house with a mortgage are hard working people/taxpayers.They rightly become very attached to their house/home. Its the one thing people mostly never ever want to lose.Its also the biggest monthly outgoing. Its the main thing that keeps them working/paying tax. Once the house is paid for it opens up lots of doors,,retire,work less,go self employed etc.Most/all of those options mean working less and or paying much less tax. There is a rentier class at the top who know there is/are 20+% of the population who will never work/always claim benefits.Then there is themselves. The crucial element in our economy for the rentiers is to make sure the hard working people continue to work and pay tax.One, so they can skim money off through their rent seeking but also so the tax is paid to transfer to the 20+% whol never work so they don't hang the rentier class. If this is so they need to make sure mortgages simply cant ever be paid off at all,or if they are its very very late in life.They also need to make sure equity doesn't pass down the generations as that would help people also retire early. So we have the H2B scheme in tandem with care home fees and destroyed pensions.The young never pay off a house or at bes tpay it off by around 70 then it goes on care fees. The older who were/would pass on wealth have it taken for said fees. This H2B scheme is probably the biggest,most cruel assault on young/younger people iv ever seen.Its designed for one reason only.To make sure house prices don't fall so that they will be in debt forever and can never retire/work less etc. The idea that Cameron sells this as helping the young is sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If this is so they need to make sure mortgages simply cant ever be paid off at all,or if they are its very very late in life.They also need to make sure equity doesn't pass down the generations as that would help people also retire early. So we have the H2B scheme in tandem with care home fees and destroyed pensions.The young never pay off a house or at bes tpay it off by around 70 then it goes on care fees. The older who were/would pass on wealth have it taken for said fees. This H2B scheme is probably the biggest,most cruel assault on young/younger people iv ever seen.Its designed for one reason only.To make sure house prices don't fall so that they will be in debt forever and can never retire/work less etc. The idea that Cameron sells this as helping the young is sick. Absolutely spot on - this is my worry - that the next step will be politicians and banks eulogising about the fabulousness of intergenerational mortgages just to get those poor unborn twinkles in their father's eyes shackled up. That, logically, is the next step on from something like Help To Buy IMHO. Sick is the word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I initially thought that HTB2 would cause house prices to rise but now I'm not so sure. I was listening to a piece on Radio 4 this morning and was suprised that the best rate a new borrower will get is 5%, the government are charging the banks .99% premium for the loan guarantee which is a cost that will be passed onto the borrower and there will be a very strict lending criteria, i.e. proper credit checks and proof of income, no more liar loans and no more interest only loans. I can't help but think that the slight uptick in prices and market activity we've seen in recent months is based more on anticipation of HTB2 than anything else. Buy the rumour, sell the news, as they say! The average joint income of a British family is £40K The average UK house price is £170,000 So deposit required £8.5K (still a bit of a stretch for many people), Mortgage required £161.5K 3 x joint income(40K) = £120K Can you see where I'm coming from? Perhaps it's mostly for people to buy up the cheaper <£120k terraced housing in many towns up north, and the Southern seaside towns (Gt Yarmouth/lowestoft/felixstowe/Ipswich/Harwich/Clacton/Maldon), plus parts of south western towns. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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