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Jeremy Hunt On Collision Course As He Says No To Nhs Pay Rises


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Id fire the lot of them, go to india and china, recruit them there and re-hire on 1/3rd the wage.

Time our public sector realized its not just the factory workers who they look down on that are expendable, its them too.

Tier 2 visa requirements?

Good luck with the telemedicine advice on that one to help you extricate your head.

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top Docs....double the National average wage.

10 times the national average shows the differentials in this country are blown to Hell..that would be why they have 9 plus grades and all the rest of it...9 levels of seniority....suonds way too much...course, empire building requires this.

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Just for the sake of argument, what should pay rates be then?

What do we value a nurse, a policeman/women, fire officer at?

If you've got a proper labour market the wages set themselves through supply and demand. You pay what you need to pay to get the skills you need.

If you're having trouble recruiting staff then you put the wages up. If you"re getting a significant surplus of suitable candidates then that's a price signal telling you that you can probably afford to make real terms cuts to pay.

If you want to try running an economy with some central committee setting wages based on the prejudices they hold about what roles make them feel warm and fluffy then your economy will collapse. It's been tried and that's what happens 100% of the time.

Edited by SpectrumFX
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Id fire the lot of them, go to india and china, recruit them there and re-hire on 1/3rd the wage.

Time our public sector realized its not just the factory workers who they look down on that are expendable, its them too.

living in garden sheds in Swindon sort of thing?

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If you've got a proper labour market the wages set themselves through supply and demand. You pay what you need to pay to get the skills you need.

You already see this in locum rates for doctors. £35 per hour for a junior doctor (1-2 years post qualification) in a local hospital.

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In 1999 the budget for the NHS was around about 39 billion. Now it's somewhere in the region of 120 billion. So far as I can tell the main difference is that staff pay doubled and there are a lot more administrators and managers. The NHS costs three times as much as it did and has not improved very much.

Indeed, however just like Councils what was the average exec/board room pay in 99 compared to now...?!

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In this country it's ok for a football to earn an average of 30k per week but somehow it's not ok for a highly skilled public sector employee to earn the average wage of £26,500 per year.

People are forced to pay for NHS staff.

They have a choice whether to contribute to a footballer's salary.

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People are forced to pay for NHS staff.

They have a choice whether to contribute to a footballer's salary.

Not if they have Sky TV (even without the Sports channels) or a BT telephone/internet connection.

The billions chucked at the premier league by various businesses ultimately have to come out of the pockets of their customers.

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We are now deemed incapable of researching, doing our own homework, reading up about things, being prepared and knowledgeable before we see a doctor........too much information for the proles, have to keep the people thick unknowing and needy....only certain people with certain certificates and training know certain correct facts...not always the case....you can never get enough information (not all of it is always right), but not every medical practitioner always gets it right all of the time. ;)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446451/Millions-risking-illness-death-delaying-GP-visits-17-cent-NHS-patients-wrong-diagnosis-checking-online.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

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We are now deemed incapable of researching, doing our own homework, reading up about things, being prepared and knowledgeable before we see a doctor........too much information for the proles, have to keep the people thick unknowing and needy....only certain people with certain certificates and training know certain correct facts...not always the case....you can never get enough information (not all of it is always right), but not every medical practitioner always gets it right all of the time. ;)

http://www.dailymail...s_campaign=1490

as the saying goes though "a little knowledge is dangerous"

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No idea people were being forced to have Sky TV or BT.

I never said that they were being forced to use the companies - but I pointed out that if they are paying for the services of the monopoly Pay TV provider (Sky is really the only game in town) or the biggest telecoms/broadband provider they will be paying extra for Premiership football whether they are taking the Sports channels that show the football or not.

A rather high proportion of UK households must be taking one or other of those services.

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I never said that they were being forced to use the companies - but I pointed out that if they are paying for the services of the monopoly Pay TV provider (Sky is really the only game in town) or the biggest telecoms/broadband provider they will be paying extra for Premiership football whether they are taking the Sports channels that show the football or not.

A rather high proportion of UK households must be taking one or other of those services.

You said they had no choice. They do.

They have chosen to use those companies thereby contributing to footballers' salaries.

Edited by RAEPKWAEN
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You already see this in locum rates for doctors. £35 per hour for a junior doctor (1-2 years post qualification) in a local hospital.

I have made this point before.

Here is an example of "the market rate" for critical care nurses, (including day rates so that contractors can understand):

NHS employed aprox = £13 per hour (or £150 per day)

private agency rates = £35 per hour (or £400 per day).

so it looks like the public are getting a bargain.

another thing to note is that working agency shifts does not count as self employed, so you do actually have to pay tax and national insurance, unlike other contractors / tradesmen.

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People are forced to pay for NHS staff.

They have a choice whether to contribute to a footballer's salary.

We are forced to pay 25k + to unemployed people who contribute nothing to society, we need to look at these people before we get involved in a propaganda set up against hard working life saving nurses and doctors.

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We are forced to pay 25k + to unemployed people who contribute nothing to society, we need to look at these people before we get involved in a propaganda set up against hard working life saving nurses and doctors.

Not that chesnut again. The costs of the unemployed are insignificant when compared to either the benefit spend or the cost of the NHS.

Back on topic, the NHS does need to be reformed, we are paying premium prices for third world service. However I don't think the nurses are the ones to blame. Doctors are raking it in and have the strongest union out there so feel no pity for them.

What I would like to see tackled are the drugs companies over drug prices, PPI costs for hospitals, bureaucracy.

The NHS has become such a monster of an organisation that any reform is incredibly hard. I do think with recent events concerning hospitals reform is going to have to be done, but it is going to have to be wholesale.

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Just for the sake of argument, what should pay rates be then?

What do we value a nurse, a policeman/women, fire officer at?

In this country it's ok for a football to earn an average of 30k per week but somehow it's not ok for a highly skilled public sector employee to earn the average wage of £26,500 per year.

Headline figures of an individual earning 'x' are fine, but they're just that, headline figures.

Vast majority don't earn that.

What is the amount they should earn then?

You need to factor in the cost of a nice Landrover and a family holiday in Bali every year now, only fair

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Back on topic, the NHS does need to be reformed, we are paying premium prices for third world service. However I don't think the nurses are the ones to blame. Doctors are raking it in and have the strongest union out there so feel no pity for them.

BMA piddly laughable union, 151,000 members

Unison 1.3 million members

At least use some facts.

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Not that chesnut again. The costs of the unemployed are insignificant when compared to either the benefit spend or the cost of the NHS.

I think we've looked at this before.

JSA is indeed trivial but the big benefits are HB and tax credits, they're not quite unemployment benefits but the reality is that we are paying out £25,000+ to people with part time minimum wage jobs.

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Not that chesnut again. The costs of the unemployed are insignificant when compared to either the benefit spend or the cost of the NHS.

Back on topic, the NHS does need to be reformed, we are paying premium prices for third world service. However I don't think the nurses are the ones to blame. Doctors are raking it in and have the strongest union out there so feel no pity for them.

What I would like to see tackled are the drugs companies over drug prices, PPI costs for hospitals, bureaucracy.

The NHS has become such a monster of an organisation that any reform is incredibly hard. I do think with recent events concerning hospitals reform is going to have to be done, but it is going to have to be wholesale.

Do you believe the cost the cost of health care will be any better under privatisation, Do you believe you will be able to get the same range of treatments under privatisation.

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Do you believe the cost the cost of health care will be any better under privatisation, Do you believe you will be able to get the same range of treatments under privatisation.

No I absolutely don't, I would never countenance privatisation. If you drew that conclusion from my post then I will have to be clearer.

I want an up to date modern, efficient NHS that is in public hands. The problem as I see it is the NHS has become a massive monster that is very hard to reform. Bureaucracy, nepotism, troughing and dare I say it corruption are problems.

I would start from scratch in say a town or county where the current hospital has failed. The current system is too entrenched.

From personal experience, I broke my arm a little while ago on a Sunday evening. I trundled to my local A&E on Monday morning at 9am (after waking to find it very swollen and purple), I was the only one there. I first of all kept standing behind a line for 20 minutes while two receptionists ignored me. It took 4 and a half hours to get an x-ray done, which took all of 5 minutes, saw the doctor straight after for 5 minutes to put a caste on.

Now I know this is an isolated incident, but if you can't get something as basic as this right then there is something really really wrong. I would hate to think what A&E is like when they are busy.

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