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Jeremy Hunt On Collision Course As He Says No To Nhs Pay Rises

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/04/jeremy-hunt-nhs-pay-rise-cancelled

Ministers have sparked a new confrontation with NHS staff by trying to derail a pay rise they were promised next year and to scrap their pay progression system linked to length of service.

In a surprise move, the health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, urged the two independent pay review bodies that set earnings for the NHS's 1.3 million workforce to cancel the 1% rise due in April 2014, even though the chancellor, George Osborne, has previously said it is affordable.

Hunt further alienated health unions by trying to end the long-established tradition in the NHS whereby many staff receive small increases each year, in addition to any pay rise, by moving up grades within their pay band, as long as their performance has been satisfactory.

The health secretary claims the NHS's £100bn annual budget is under such pressure that it cannot afford to increase salaries at all in 2014 or to continue to give staff automatic increments. The planned 1% rise would cost £500m, while the incremental payments, which entail an average 3.5% rise, and 6.7% in some cases, would cost an estimated £700m more a year.

I wonder what pay rises executives have been awarding themselves in the NHS?

Perpetual increases always hit the exponential problem.

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Wrong tack.

Bring them in to line with the Real World by scrapping the automatic increments. Then we could award them a headline payrise of more than the 1% at issue, and still save money.

Though it has to be said, the NHS has more than its fair share of the overpaid.

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In 1999 the budget for the NHS was around about 39 billion. Now it's somewhere in the region of 120 billion. So far as I can tell the main difference is that staff pay doubled and there are a lot more administrators and managers. The NHS costs three times as much as it did and has not improved very much.

While I would not trust the Conservatives to cut someone's hair it would probably be best to have a less expensive health service. Trouble is people get all emotional about NHS cuts.

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In 1999 the budget for the NHS was around about 39 billion. Now it's somewhere in the region of 120 billion. So far as I can tell the main difference is that staff pay doubled and there are a lot more administrators and managers. The NHS costs three times as much as it did and has not improved very much.

While I would not trust the Conservatives to cut someone's hair it would probably be best to have a less expensive health service. Trouble is people get all emotional about NHS cuts.

where can i find facts to prove that this money went on pay rises? i am having a facebook debate with an annoying left wing public sector raver and really want to hit him with some hard facts that prove the NHS wastes billions besides the pensions liabilities. please help!

how much did the amount of employees increase? or was the extra money spent mainly on pay rises for the same number of staff?

Edited by houses-do-my-head-in

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where can i find facts to prove that this money went on pay rises? i am having a facebook debate with an annoying left wing public sector raver and really want to hit him with some hard facts that prove the NHS wastes billions besides the pensions liabilities. please help!

how much did the amount of employees increase? or was the extra money spent mainly on pay rises for the same number of staff?

There has been a huge increase in the number of employees over the last 10 or 15 years.

Nurses up 25%

GPs up 25%

Specialists up 50%

Managers up 70% (management numbers now actually falling)

A lot of the increase, particularly among nurses, and other health professionals has been in part-time workers. The actual number of worked hours has still increased, but nowhere near as dramatically, and has not actually kept up with population growth.

The increase in numbers is also not even throughout the country. London generally has had the biggest increase in staff numbers. This has not been shown in more deprived areas, particularly the North West and North East; at higher grade positions, this is often due to difficulty in recruiting, as people in a position to apply, are not interested in working there.

Over the last 15 years (between 1998 and 2013) there have been the following indicative salary increases (RPI over this period approx 2.9% per year).

Entry level nurses: Approx 3.8% pa (approx 75% increase)

Experienced nurses: Approx 4.2% pa (approx 85% increase)

Consultants: Approx 2.6% pa (Approx 50% increase)

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Zero hour contacts.....high unemployment, high cost of living, lower benefits, make work pay only means everyone is trying to make work pay, why pay more when they know people will work for less. ;)

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/04/jeremy-hunt-nhs-pay-rise-cancelled

I wonder what pay rises executives have been awarding themselves in the NHS?

Perpetual increases always hit the exponential problem.

I am sure I read average exec pay rise was 49% a couple of years ago, obviously not that high in the NHS but still, it must compound like a mofo.

No wonder the average pay rise for everybody else is between 0%-2.5%.

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In 1999 the budget for the NHS was around about 39 billion. Now it's somewhere in the region of 120 billion. So far as I can tell the main difference is that staff pay doubled and there are a lot more administrators and managers. The NHS costs three times as much as it did and has not improved very much.

While I would not trust the Conservatives to cut someone's hair it would probably be best to have a less expensive health service. Trouble is people get all emotional about NHS cuts.

Using real terms numbers would be more honest.

Nurses got a decent pay rise but nowhere near doubling in real terms. What they used to be paid was a disgrace and it's still pretty poor.

The NHS has the lowest management costs of any health system in the developed world.

We now spend a lot more on health than in 1999 but are still amongst the lowest in the developed world and still below the EU average.

The NHS has improved massively. You've just forgotten how bad it was.

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thats 1% on top of the pay scales.

At last a minister is at the throat of the problem.

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where can i find facts to prove that this money went on pay rises? i am having a facebook debate with an annoying left wing public sector raver and really want to hit him with some hard facts that prove the NHS wastes billions besides the pensions liabilities. please help!

how much did the amount of employees increase? or was the extra money spent mainly on pay rises for the same number of staff?

shock horror news: "nurse now gets slightly above average inflation wage increase from the 90's"

I'd say a fair bit is spent on new drug improvements, a fair bit on pen pushing with all the targets to meet and analyse, the blame culture must eat into the resources (fair enough for some of it for bad cases).

Some private operations are done in NHS hospitals. not sure if the £ figures here balance out or not.

PFI? not sure if this is worked into the equation or not.

Much higher energy prices?

many more pen pushers/paper work than years ago, a lot of these on good money.

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shock horror news: "nurse now gets slightly above average inflation wage increase from the 90's"

I'd say a fair bit is spent on new drug improvements, a fair bit on pen pushing with all the targets to meet and analyse, the blame culture must eat into the resources (fair enough for some of it for bad cases).

Some private operations are done in NHS hospitals. not sure if the £ figures here balance out or not.

PFI? not sure if this is worked into the equation or not.

Much higher energy prices?

many more pen pushers/paper work than years ago, a lot of these on good money.

But still less than other countries.

£130bn needs a lot of managing.

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<br />Using real terms numbers would be more honest. <br /><br />Nurses got a decent pay rise but nowhere near doubling in real terms. What they used to be paid was a disgrace and it's still pretty poor.<br /><br />The NHS has the lowest management costs of any health system in the developed world.<br /><br />We now spend a lot more on health than in 1999 but are still amongst the lowest in the developed world and still below the EU average.<br /><br />The NHS has improved massively. You've just forgotten how bad it was.<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

with claims like these we really need some kind of  macro data and additionally some sources if poss

Edited by Si1

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<br />I don't understand the anger against pay scales.<br /><br />It seems obvious that for the first few years in a  job you'll get better and more productive at it.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

of that's the case then pay scales are irrelevant as your higher competence will naturally force your bosses to pay you more

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<br /><br /><br />

of that's the case then pay scales are irrelevant as your higher competence will naturally force your bosses to pay you more

There's no ability for bosses to do that in the public sector - hence the pay scales.

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<br />But still less than other countries.<br /><br />£130bn needs a lot of managing.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

is that the same way bread production needed managing in the soviet union?

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<br />There's no ability for bosses to do that in the public sector - hence the pay scales.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

so you agree pay scales are basically unnecessary then

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<br /><br /><br />

is that the same way bread production needed managing in the soviet union?

Very silly. Health care is massively expensive and complex. If you think tens of millions of procedure every year don't need managing then your simply barking.

The US spends more than 10 times the amount per capita we do on managing their health system. But presumably you'll think that's OK because it's private. You're just blinded by some weird ideological hatred

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<br />Very silly. Health care is massively expensive and complex. If you think tens of millions of procedure every year don't need managing then your simply barking.<br /><br />The US spends more than 10 times the amount per capita we do on managing their health system. But presumably you'll think that's OK because it's private. You're just blinded by some weird ideological hatred<br />
<br /><br /><br />

go away and shut up with your sad little leftie straw men, both of them

I neither said healthcare doesn't need managing nor did I hold up the US system as a paragon

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