Thinking Of Buying A B&b

[The Masked Tulip]

I think the piece I read on that was linked on here. It was very sad. British women who had gone on the game as a career choice were finding that foreign ?east european pros were charging half the price and doing anything however unpleasant or unsafe, so they either had to do the same or get out. Another British industry down the tubes, and desperate times for the women who thought they knew what the future held. Good old Labour and the EU, ruining more British lives with unrestricted immigration.

I am seeing an awful lot more women on dating sites have carefully worded profiles that basically implies they are charging for sex.

[swissy_fit]

If i'd managed to become properly reconciled with my French ex, i would be down in Herault like a shot next year.

Unfortunately, she's completely bonkers now.

A narrow squeak.

Why can't you go there (or elsewhere) on your own?

Believe me, you'll be every bit as much of a foreigner setting up in rural Devon or Cornwall, without any of the "exotic" appeal of a foreigner to the local women.

[John51]

If you find a place that is within an easy walk to a decent greasy spoon, you could have breakfast be no more than tea/coffee and rolls. The Aussie run hostels I used in London did this, individual packs of butter and jam, minimal work involved. Big tea urn, tea bags and coffee sachets. What often happened there would be a guest getting into financial difficulties and working for rent so they handled the breakfasts.

A friend staying at a B&B in Wales was told by the landladies husband (who had a garage next door) that next time he needed his car servicing, to book a weekend and the service plus full board would come to less than the cost of a service in Liverpool. So maybe you could tie up with a garage there?

Training courses seem to be getting popular, maybe a hookup with local craftsman eg. woodturners.

Also, you could offer a heavy discount on long term stays to anyone with a job in the area or retired couples. Of course they'd provide their own bed linen and do their own cleaning.

CrashedOutAndBurned, would a container be enough space for your extra work? Here the container parks start at around £25/week.

[The Masked Tulip]

If i'd managed to become properly reconciled with my French ex, i would be down in Herault like a shot next year.

Unfortunately, she's completely bonkers now.

A narrow squeak.

A GP I know of quit the UK a few years ago, during the boom when loads of Brits were going to France on hols, to run a B&B in France. It was a lot of work and a disaster apparently. Lucky that he had GPing to come back to.

Probably best ot avoid the bonkers'ex anyhow.

[geezer466]

I am seeing an awful lot more women on dating sites have carefully worded profiles that basically implies they are charging for sex.

Are you writing for a doctorate or something? You always seem to have the lowdown on what is going on in the 'personals' industry!!

[honkydonkey]

Just an idea but look at the national cycle routes and place yourself near one of those. Then advertise the place cyclist friendly on bulletin boards for passing travellers. Wales attracts a lot of mountain bikers.

[spyguy]

I think buying B+B is a hiding to nowhere.

I post on the Yorkshire board about Whitby, which has more than its fair share of B+B, guest houses, holiday lets.

The majority don;t make money.

B+B are particualr bad as they screw up your start (breakfast) and end (dinner, arrivals) of day so you cannot get a job to get more cash.

You need 2 people to run the place plus help.

I was down in Weymouth (just down the line from Gilly) for a few days this summer. I like Weymouth - its clean (esp. compare to B'mouth) and not obviously on its ar5e - like Blackpool definitely is and Scarborough is in places.

The B+B was OK, if a bit small, right at the front and cost 90/night for 4 of us.

I had a city break in a 4* marrioit for the same price - massive room, hughe breakfast, pool.

The B+B had vancancies. In August!!!

God knows how the sh1tholes away from the front were doing. Badly I guess by the state ofthe places near the train station.

Oh, you only have about 4 months to make your money.

Any business that involves financing UK real estate is bound to fail.

ps. there's a cracker of a new place opened in home village. Just stumbled on it recently. Only noticed as a new name popped up on the local news site coming up with loads of nutd ideas of increasing tourisms to the area - we've got loads of it, problem is few have any spent left after the petrol.

First time house has sold out of a family for 90 years.

New owners have the place gutted, OTT 6 months!!! refit.

I shall sit in the background observing this one play out.

Incedently, a new CBBC series has started about a B+B in Scabby.

If this bares any resemblance to real life expect the nice families staying in summer to be replaced by kiddy fiddlers, ex-cons and junkies.

[spyguy]

Are you writing for a doctorate or something? You always seem to have the lowdown on what is going on in the 'personals' industry!!

Yeah which ones POF?

Do they offer group discounts?

[man o' the year]

Just caught up on this thread.

There are a few points I would make from 7 years experience running our hotel.

I have just finished a typical 18 hour day although bar upstairs was looked after tonight by my manager. It was supposedly my night off but we were so busy I went to help in kitchen otherwise customers would have unacceptable waits.

Firstly I would say do not bother. You are on your own. It is difficult for a couple with full time help to cope and anyone on their own would not be able to cope.

The Ifracombe property looks a no hoper. Dig a little deeper and you will see.

Laundry is not a problem. I would not contemplate doing own. We out-source ours and this is very cost effective.

Be prepared to fight and continue to fight for quality at low cost. This makes a real difference. eg quality bacon and good poached eggs at breakfast. This need for quality at low cost applies to everything. Butchers are worst with poor quality and high costs but all suppliers and services are out for everything they can get. It took us 3 years to obtain Laundry rates we have and these are now about a third those of our predecessor.

Booking.com and other agencies are worthwhile but have your own booking system on website. You do not have to have same rate for Booking.com and your own website but cannot have Booking.com higher than other agencies. Same is true for most others.

You must always be on end of phone and be VERY well organised to maximise bookings and avoid double bookings.

Staff? We have been very lucky but also very diligent. I trust none but this means they can be trusted as they have so little opportunity.

Nutters , weirdos,? We have had them all. From the bizarre and humorous to the dishonest and dangerous. We have also had many who are now great friends.

Best thing? Money. There are a few things I would not describe here but think about the potential tax advantages.

Worst thing? Tripadvisor. Means every fool who tries to cheat you goes on there and slags you off. Personally. I have too thin a skin for this not to hurt and it is a killer for business as I will of ask for reviews as a point of principle.

Most important. I would not consider any property I could not fully and securely separate own living accommodation from guests.

Still interested? You can have mine for £1M.

We paid 10% less than that in 2006.

Plans? Move to bring in supervised staff and ease off the supervision as they become competent and prove trust worthy. Draw retirement income from this and sell if management does not work out.

Not so do-able for a B&B.

If you do go for it - good luck. PM me if I can help.

[geezer466]

Just caught up on this thread.

There are a few points I would make from 7 years experience running our hotel.

I have just finished a typical 18 hour day although bar upstairs was looked after tonight by my manager. It was supposedly my night off but we were so busy I went to help in kitchen otherwise customers would have unacceptable waits.

Firstly I would say do not bother. You are on your own. It is difficult for a couple with full time help to cope and anyone on their own would not be able to cope.

The Ifracombe property looks a no hoper. Dig a little deeper and you will see.

Laundry is not a problem. I would not contemplate doing own. We out-source ours and this is very cost effective.

Be prepared to fight and continue to fight for quality at low cost. This makes a real difference. eg quality bacon and good poached eggs at breakfast. This need for quality at low cost applies to everything. Butchers are worst with poor quality and high costs but all suppliers and services are out for everything they can get. It took us 3 years to obtain Laundry rates we have and these are now about a third those of our predecessor.

Booking.com and other agencies are worthwhile but have your own booking system on website. You do not have to have same rate for Booking.com and your own website but cannot have Booking.com higher than other agencies. Same is true for most others.

You must always be on end of phone and be VERY well organised to maximise bookings and avoid double bookings.

Staff? We have been very lucky but also very diligent. I trust none but this means they can be trusted as they have so little opportunity.

Nutters , weirdos,? We have had them all. From the bizarre and humorous to the dishonest and dangerous. We have also had many who are now great friends.

Best thing? Money. There are a few things I would not describe here but think about the potential tax advantages.

Worst thing? Tripadvisor. Means every fool who tries to cheat you goes on there and slags you off. Personally. I have too thin a skin for this not to hurt and it is a killer for business as I will of ask for reviews as a point of principle.

Most important. I would not consider any property I could not fully and securely separate own living accommodation from guests.

Still interested? You can have mine for £1M.

We paid 10% less than that in 2006.

Plans? Move to bring in supervised staff and ease off the supervision as they become competent and prove trust worthy. Draw retirement income from this and sell if management does not work out.

Not so do-able for a B&B.

If you do go for it - good luck. PM me if I can help.

Its a tough world out there, but if you are still in business you must be doing something right.

Going on your price tag your accommodation offering (no of rooms) is above the average.

[DTMark]

Despite what may seem like a moneyspinner refurbs and renewals etc and a very seasonal trade eat into profits. Very few landlords make any money at all which is why they are giving 7 bedroom ones away for 40k freehold in Blackpool...........

http://www.rightmove...y-28144989.html

When I think "B & B" that's the sort of thing that springs to mind.

I actually lived about a mile from where that one is.

The impression I got from living there is that a great many business owners in Blackpool would earn the same or more working in an office somewhere for less risk and effort aside from the 40 minute drive to Preston every day where the work is. There isn't any work in Blackpool (only a slight exaggeration - you could always get a nightshift job at the big Tesco..)

Because of this the state of some of the B&Bs is truly atrocious. That one is North Shore which is the "posher" end. The ones in South Shore are even worse.

You're talking about the ten or twenty quid a night (might be more now) bottom-of-the-barrel stag and hen parties who don't care much about the state of the place as their main objective is to spend the weekend being p***ed coming face to face with poor families who can't afford more.

There just isn't the money to renovate. One that my brother stayed in was literally falling to pieces.

Then I think a bit more and consider, say, rural properties near to attractions.

And if the location is right, and the clientele is much nicer to have, and it's somewhere I'd like to live myself, and the business has a proven track record.. it begins to sound quite attractive to me.

[SNACR]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but something to consider with businesses like these is that there is essentially a cap on turnover insofar as the maximum you can do is all rooms let solidly all year - which is very low odds of occurring.

As I'm sure has been mentioned, what there is/was, with these business though was a saleable high value asset but I've got a feeling that's changed or changing.

[crashmonitor]

There just isn't the money to renovate. One that my brother stayed in was literally falling to pieces.

I think that is the big factor often ignored, you do one en suite and the profit is gone for a year, you renew the roof and the profit is gone for two years. These places are money guzzling money pits and all the B& B owners I know just plough any surplus back into maintaining the property, which is why it is more of a hobby business and a way to live in mansion that would be otherwise be uneconomic to live in as a private house.

Edited September 27, 2013 by crashmonitor

[thefruits]

Really wasn't expecting this amount of insight.

I think where i would struggle is having to trust any staff i would need.

Currently no Mrs Shindigger to spread the load.

This place caught my eye.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-26414491.html?premiumA=true

I remember lots of childhood holidays in this area.

Woolacombe just up the road, which is surfer central these days.

Lots to think on.

It does sound like i could just as easily clear the same cash per month doing what im doing now.

Albeit in much reduced circumstances.

Whatever i do, i won't be borrowing any money.

Glad i started the thread.

If I may add my tuppeny worth. If you are investing in a property to make money and it needs any work follow these simple two rules

1) avoid at all costs any listed building

2) never forget rule 1

This property is a grade 2 listed. It will absolutely drain any cash reserves and then some. I see the property is currently in the process of being modified. I bet the current owners simply couldn't afford to keep the place up to the standard the guys (English Heritage ?) wanted. The flat roofs look an utter nightmare as if they leak (AND THEY DO)...they would cost a fortune

As for 17 beds. Crazy. I'd start with no more than 6. Do it well and then possibly find another property and do the same.

All IMHO of course

[geezer466]

The majority of the problem is the vast majority of owners do not have the acumen to market themselves properly to drum up the business.

Its why internet portals like booking.com, laterooms ect can extract 15 - 20% from owners room revenue for providing very little service. For many of the owners I know this is apart from decreasing annual return guests is their sole form of marketing.

The accommodation provider business today is very much internet focused which a lesson the portals above have learned very well.

Its a slippery slope, once the visitor numbers suffer then overnight stays go down and the bottom line suffers, the easiest thing to scimp on is maintenance.

I always saw improvement of the facilities as fundamental to growing the business and spend significant amounts each year. Last year for example I changed 12 perfectly good fire doors for white 6 panel type colonials simply because they looked much nicer and bring the standard of the place up. I was also able to keep the costs down by employing a chippie friend of mine to fit them and assisting him in doing so.

This year I plan to upgrade my superior rooms to include ipod docks/speaker systems (this has been done in my town before) and 32inch or larger freeview HD TV's (this hasn't been done before). I will also change some carpets which I could in all honesty get another year or two out of but like to stick to my plan.

It is vitally important to keep the business moving forward and to invest within it to bring that about.

[DTMark]

The majority of the problem is the vast majority of owners do not have the acumen to market themselves properly to drum up the business.

Its why internet portals like booking.com, laterooms ect can extract 15 - 20% from owners room revenue for providing very little service. For many of the owners I know this is apart from decreasing annual return guests is their sole form of marketing.

This makes me think of those retailing online via the eBay platform, and only the eBay platform.

Who then complain when decisions don't go their way, the price of the service goes up, or they're forced down particular routes like having to accept PayPal.

If you wholly outsource your marketing and other activities, you get neither the control nor all the benefit.

[crashmonitor]

If I may add my tuppeny worth. If you are investing in a property to make money and it needs any work follow these simple two rules

1) avoid at all costs any listed building

2) never forget rule 1

This property is a grade 2 listed. It will absolutely drain any cash reserves and then some. I see the property is currently in the process of being modified. I bet the current owners simply couldn't afford to keep the place up to the standard the guys (English Heritage ?) wanted. The flat roofs look an utter nightmare as if they leak (AND THEY DO)...they would cost a fortune

As for 17 beds. Crazy. I'd start with no more than 6. Do it well and then possibly find another property and do the same.

All IMHO of course

Good advice you are rarely going to fill more than four. 17 bedrooms is a bit of a white elephant.

[cybernoid]

Am I the only one here not running a b&b?

[silver surfer]

Yes i am being a tad OTT on the lazy bit.

I've actually grafted hard for 17 years in current career.

Including LOTS of schlepping from Dorset to London and early 5am starts.

And being an AV Tech i have had to grit my teeth, sometimes all day.

I'm looking at the south coast Dorset/Devon or Nth Devon Ilfracombe area.

Ilfracombe is a bit of a hole, but is on the doorstep of fantastic beaches etc.

Its one of those lifestyle/crisis moments i see bombing over the horizon.

Im certainly not keen on working for someone else again after so long self employed.

Good for you. I took a lifestyle change at the start of this year, chucked in a London media job with a crushing long haul flight schedule and moved to a pretty market town on the south coast. Now spend lots of time bobbing around the Solent and loving every minute of it. Grow my own fruit and vegetables, catch my own fish, find time for partner, friends, family, and neighbours. Wish I'd stopped fretting years ago about life without an impressive job title and got on with enjoying my brief time in this world.

[SarahBell]

The hotel inspector always seemed to ask hotel owners difficult questions, like ow much does breakfast actually cost...

[geezer466]

The hotel inspector always seemed to ask hotel owners difficult questions, like ow much does breakfast actually cost...

I am have run a B&B for 8 years and I can honestly say I have never done a cost ratio analysis on breakfasts.

Once you are into such territory and are needing to make those sort of savings then the game is probably already lost.

[crashmonitor]

I am have run a B&B for 8 years and I can honestly say I have never done a cost ratio analysis on breakfasts.

Once you are into such territory and are needing to make those sort of savings then the game is probably already lost.

A false economy to cut costs on breakfasts, certainly if you want repeat custom.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I am have run a B&B for 8 years and I can honestly say I have never done a cost ratio analysis on breakfasts.

Once you are into such territory and are needing to make those sort of savings then the game is probably already lost.

Don't you keep an idea of what breakfast costs you in total though? Even if you do not know how much each sausage or egg is?

The thing that infuriates my wife the most about her mother and sister running some holiday accomodation is how they have no idea of the relationship between what things cost and what they charge, exemplified by their breakfast and dinners.