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swissy_fit

Yet Another Mmgw Thread, Sorry.

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The hole in my argument ? I don't have an argument in regards to whether mmgw or not is real.

Jeez - its not difficult.

Ok how about we try this. What do you think my point is ? I hate stated it very clearly so it shouldn't be difficult to say.

I don't understand how your conclusion in bold leads from the preceding sentence - you obviously need to explain it to me

You don't need to be a scientist to understand that if where i am standing right now was covered in 1km of ice only 18k years ago - through no effort of man - that this whole debate about whether we are warming the earth or not - is fairly pointless.

The paper I linked describes why it is a non sequitur.

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Ok this is my last comment on this thread as its a waste of my time.

Climate is not an issue - we are.

The climate will change by huge amounts whether we like it or not.

Are we impacting it ? Quite possibly. Does it make sense to try to have any control over it ? Or try to stop it warming or cooling ? No imo.

We could have a meteorite impact, massive solar event or huge volcanic eruptions. All could change the climate a massive amount and there is sweet FA we can do about it.

The problem is us. We are too great in numbers, cover too many different areas and use far too many resources than we need. Out civilisation is also far too over complicated. This means that when the climate does change a lot - in either direction - we will be ******ed very very quickly.

So we either try to control our numbers and live in more sensible locations away from places that would be quickly impacted by large changes - or we just accept it is going to happen - whether it is down to us or nature or both - and get on with it.

There is no point worrying about one thing you think you may be able to control - when you can be sideswiped at any moment from all manner of angles and there is nothing you can do about it.

Get on with living and trying to be a bit more respectful species - and forget about mass campaigns that are supposedly about 'saving the planet' - when they are clearly just about control of resources and energy security between nations.

I don't worry about it. Its a complete waste of time. You may as well sit and stare at your chest every day waiting for your heart to give up.

Pointless.

Cheerio thread.

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Again - where did i say i thought these documents were 'wrong' or any theories in them were wrong ?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I don't know if they are 'wrong' or not.

You simply fail to listen to or try to understand the point i am making. Its a very simple one. And as we have seen with many similar discussions on this very site - its an opinion many share.

If you don't agree with that - up to you.

What is your opinion?

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Ok this is my last comment on this thread as its a waste of my time.

Climate is not an issue - we are.

The climate will change by huge amounts whether we like it or not.

Are we impacting it ? Quite possibly. Does it make sense to try to have any control over it ? Or try to stop it warming or cooling ? No imo.

We could have a meteorite impact, massive solar event or huge volcanic eruptions. All could change the climate a massive amount and there is sweet FA we can do about it.

The problem is us. We are too great in numbers, cover too many different areas and use far too many resources than we need. Out civilisation is also far too over complicated. This means that when the climate does change a lot - in either direction - we will be ******ed very very quickly.

So we either try to control our numbers and live in more sensible locations away from places that would be quickly impacted by large changes - or we just accept it is going to happen - whether it is down to us or nature or both - and get on with it.

There is no point worrying about one thing you think you may be able to control - when you can be sideswiped at any moment from all manner of angles and there is nothing you can do about it.

Get on with living and trying to be a bit more respectful species - and forget about mass campaigns that are supposedly about 'saving the planet' - when they are clearly just about control of resources and energy security between nations.

I don't worry about it. Its a complete waste of time. You may as well sit and stare at your chest every day waiting for your heart to give up.

Pointless.

Cheerio thread.

Perfectly valid position. Nothing to do with what you were arguing though, which was a bit confused. Tend to live certain aspects of my life that way. All about calculating risk and trade-offs.

I'm now off to shag everyone without a cond0m 'cos a meteor could strike tomorrow.

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Guest eight

Perfectly valid position. Nothing to do with what you were arguing though, which was a bit confused. Tend to live certain aspects of my life that way. All about calculating risk and trade-offs.

I'm now off to shag everyone without a cond0m 'cos a meteor could strike tomorrow.

LiveinHope, there's something about both the tone and content of your posts that leaves me unable to decide if you're very smart or almost unbelievably thick. Which is it?

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Is now a good time to mention that our enormous fleet of windmills has produced 0.6% of our electricity needs over the last 24 hours? :unsure:

Or that the current 424mw is equivilent to one smallish gas power station? :unsure:

Electricity summary

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LiveinHope, there's something about both the tone and content of your posts that leaves me unable to decide if you're very smart or almost unbelievably thick. Which is it?

Can you provide an example of what might give you cause for either impression ?

In either case, I'm flattered - it's quite an achievement.

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Is now a good time to mention that our enormous fleet of windmills has produced 0.6% of our electricity needs over the last 24 hours? :unsure:

Or that the current 424mw is equivilent to one smallish gas power station? :unsure:

Electricity summary

But they provide a lot more at other times. Apparently peaks and averages matter more, so presumably it's just selfish to expect electricity that works all the time.

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In the lab, "they" may not have attributed everything to CO2...but the media who they talk to do, and the impression made by those set to gain from such an assertion certainly do.

In the public minds eye too, for those who pay little attention, Global Warming due to their car, their holidays and their taking a bath IS a majr cause...I cite "carbon credits" as the VI vehicle.

BINGO! another stealth tax for the future.

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BINGO! another stealth tax for the future.

:blink:

Moving around a bit, is only for the "rich"!

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The hole in my argument ? I don't have an argument in regards to whether mmgw or not is real.

Jeez - its not difficult.

Ok how about we try this. What do you think my point is ? I have stated it very clearly so it shouldn't be difficult to say.

Your point seems to be:

- There are natural things that could potentially cause catastrophic climate change, and at the moment there isn't much we can do about them*. Is this reasonable?

- Therefore we should not worry about man made climate change, even though it is fixable at not too great a cost.

To me that's bit like saying that you are not going to get the brakes fixed on your car, because a lorry could crush you when stopped at traffic lights.

The other thing you seem to think is that the likely scale and impacts of man made global warming will be fairly minor, and that is a position on the science. But I get the impression that you are very keen to avoid stating any position on it. To me that's inconsistent, like saying that you have no opinion on the existence of the inverse square law for gravity, whilst also disparaging those who think that the same force that pulls an apple to the ground could also account for the movement of the planets - 'we don't know'.

* There are plenty of things we could and should do about possible natural disasters, but given that we can't even get the energy companies to prepare properly for a major solar flare in our direction..

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Your point seems to be:

- There are natural things that could potentially cause catastrophic climate change, and at the moment there isn't much we can do about them*. Is this reasonable?

- Therefore we should not worry about man made climate change, even though it is fixable at not too great a cost.

To me that's bit like saying that you are not going to get the brakes fixed on your car, because a lorry could crush you when stopped at traffic lights.

The other thing you seem to think is that the likely scale and impacts of man made global warming will be fairly minor, and that is a position on the science. But I get the impression that you are very keen to avoid stating any position on it. To me that's inconsistent, like saying that you have no opinion on the existence of the inverse square law for gravity, whilst also disparaging those who think that the same force that pulls an apple to the ground could also account for the movement of the planets - 'we don't know'.

^ This.

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Is now a good time to mention that our enormous fleet of windmills has produced 0.6% of our electricity needs over the last 24 hours? :unsure:

Or that the current 424mw is equivilent to one smallish gas power station? :unsure:

Electricity summary

These are two completely different propositions, though:

'Global warming is real'

'Wind power is the best source of large scale electricity'

The first is a scientific question settled beyond reasonable doubt (unreasonable doubt is, of course, never settled)

The second is a somewhat dubious proposition.

As I've stated many times.. We should have started on a large scale breeder nuclear reactor program a couple of decades ago, with the North sea gas as a stop gap. By now we'd have cut emissions by perhaps half, electricity prices would be disconnected from gas prices and we'd be looking more and more at using off-peak nuclear for things like home heating and synthetic fuels.

Global warming cannot be fixed by a bit of conservation and making 30% of our electricity from wind.

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These are two completely different propositions, though:

'Global warming is real'

'Wind power is the best source of large scale electricity'

The first is a scientific question settled beyond reasonable doubt (unreasonable doubt is, of course, never settled)

The second is a somewhat dubious proposition.

As I've stated many times.. We should have started on a large scale breeder nuclear reactor program a couple of decades ago, with the North sea gas as a stop gap. By now we'd have cut emissions by perhaps half, electricity prices would be disconnected from gas prices and we'd be looking more and more at using off-peak nuclear for things like home heating and synthetic fuels.

Global warming cannot be fixed by a bit of conservation and making 30% of our electricity from wind.

you missed out very importantly, "global cooling is real".

Indeed, global temperature change is inevitable.

The political position is quite different though...hence we have for and against sides...little to do with science, but plenty to do with making somebody a winner in the rat race to wealth and treasure.

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