Guest TheBlueCat Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/10319792/Road-bikes-how-much-time-does-your-money-buy-you.html Actually, the bikes made a lot more difference than I would have expected. I don't care about the diminishing returns either, I still want the 12K one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Pretty much mirrors what I've heard. Serious law of diminishing returns above around a grand for the average person. For me, the second hand market is where it's at. I have two titanium framed mountain bikes. One frame was £100 on eBay, the other frame, £220 (about £1000 new) on a cycle forum. I specialise in frankenbikes - replacing cheaper parts with better ones once they wear out and the fancy stuff becomes unfashionable. Some fancy stuff isn't worth buying anyhow - I'd never fork out big money on things like bottom brackets or headsets for example. Bikes, and components, have got a lot more expensive in the last five years, after many years of deflation. I reckon prices have nearly doubled. I suspect it's down to several factors; the workplace schemes, middle aged blokes feeling fitter (and bikes being easier to ride) and the fact they are cheaper than sports cars/bikes (the traditional purchase of middle aged men who can no longer afford them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappycocco Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Take a haibike xduro superrace and leave these guys behind as well as safeguard my knees for when I'm old and the nhs is bust. I don't understand how people ride racing bikes on the pothole ridden cracked up roads without buckling wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habeas Domus Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 To save 1 second costs £400 they reckon so theoretically cutting the journey time by 1 minute would cost £24,000 and 1 hour would cost £1.4 million Are they sure these bikes arent made in the public sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 That chap winning the Tour of French countryside changed cycling and drove up prices. In the past year the number of people cycling in my area - in the full gear - has shot up. The second hand market is where it is at and I am hoping to pick up a good bike there soon. Have to be careful it is not stolen though. I agree about a grand tops if that when new. Weight is the crucial thing. Much better to pay for a lighter bike but beyond a point it is higher cost versus diminishing returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 To save 1 second costs £400 they reckon so theoretically cutting the journey time by 1 minute would cost £24,000 and 1 hour would cost £1.4 million Are they sure these bikes arent made in the public sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Weight is the crucial thing. Much better to pay for a lighter bike but beyond a point it is higher cost versus diminishing returns. Interesting question that one. Certainly for going up hill weight is where it's at. I'm less sure about on the flat though, I would think that rigidity and rolling resistance would be bigger factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turned Out Nice Again Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Pretty much mirrors what I've heard. Serious law of diminishing returns above around a grand for the average person. i watched a long youtube about this subject from an american cycle guru -- see below. his jist was that: a/ set up (frame tracking), sizing the frame, and the right wheels/ chain are more important than a high initial pricteag (which can actually work against the former). b/ the really high-end bikes bring nothing to an average rider, and can even make him slower! c/ any gains from ultra light weight are almost negligible on the flat and are in any case pointless if the rider is at all overweight. he finished by recommending an american road bike (a grand record motobecane) for ~$650 which, with suggested after-sale mods, will do 95% of what a $10.000 bike would do for all but a tiny elite of riders. .. of course, if you have the cash and you want a nice thing, none of the above will matter (and that's fair enough). you could also always get a road bike built to your exact measurement /requirements. a friend of mine just did that for ~£3000 iirc. EDIT: found the video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Interesting question that one. Certainly for going up hill weight is where it's at. I'm less sure about on the flat though, I would think that rigidity and rolling resistance would be bigger factors. I just don't like the idea of lagging a heavy bit of kit around with me. I live in Wales as well so flat bits are very rare. I am not convinced by full carbon bikes as I know a few people who bought expensive full carbons only for them to crack on the frame. I think a mix of alum frame and carbon fork would be the right combo of weight and price for a road bike for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worzel Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 It's certainly cheaper to lose a few pounds than spend thousands on a bike. There are plenty of second hand bargains out there, but it's key to 1) make sure they aren't stolen or the person selling isn't a scammer, and 2) make sure it fits properly, no point having a really high spec bargain if it gives you an achy back. I had to make an emergency bike purchase before doing a lands end john o groats trip (emergency = one hour before start! long story) and bought an alu frame trek 2.3 with 105 group set, was about 1100, is had the unrated wheels which may or not make a difference to speed, but they have fewer spokes so make the bike look a classier. Most importantly though, the bike shop in Penzance made sure it fit me right so it was a comfortable ride, except for the inevitable sore bottom and knees after several days of 130+ miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 It's certainly cheaper to lose a few pounds than spend thousands on a bike. There are plenty of second hand bargains out there, but it's key to 1) make sure they aren't stolen or the person selling isn't a scammer, and 2) make sure it fits properly, no point having a really high spec bargain if it gives you an achy back. I had to make an emergency bike purchase before doing a lands end john o groats trip (emergency = one hour before start! long story) and bought an alu frame trek 2.3 with 105 group set, was about 1100, is had the unrated wheels which may or not make a difference to speed, but they have fewer spokes so make the bike look a classier. Most importantly though, the bike shop in Penzance made sure it fit me right so it was a comfortable ride, except for the inevitable sore bottom and knees after several days of 130+ miles. What is the perceived way to test that a bike is the right size these days. The last time I bought one, as it had been for many years, it was all to do with having the knee slightly bent when standing on one leg. But I was never satisfied with that concept as I felt it never made allowances for the back - especially for tall people like me. I feel that my spine curves or leans forward to much on my mountain bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 What is the perceived way to test that a bike is the right size these days. The last time I bought one, as it had been for many years, it was all to do with having the knee slightly bent when standing on one leg. But I was never satisfied with that concept as I felt it never made allowances for the back - especially for tall people like me. I feel that my spine curves or leans forward to much on my mountain bikes. When I stand one one leg, one knee IS slightly bent! Obviously I do not know how you are built! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 When I stand one one leg, one knee IS slightly bent! Obviously I do not know how you are built! Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erat_forte Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 What is the perceived way to test that a bike is the right size these days. The last time I bought one, as it had been for many years, it was all to do with having the knee slightly bent when standing on one leg. But I was never satisfied with that concept as I felt it never made allowances for the back - especially for tall people like me. I feel that my spine curves or leans forward to much on my mountain bikes. Yes "fitting" the bike is organising the frame length and angle etc. Not just raising and lowering the saddle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I just don't like the idea of lagging a heavy bit of kit around with me. I live in Wales as well so flat bits are very rare. I am not convinced by full carbon bikes as I know a few people who bought expensive full carbons only for them to crack on the frame. I think a mix of alum frame and carbon fork would be the right combo of weight and price for a road bike for me. Makes sense if you're doing a lot of climbing. So far so good with my carbon fibre framed bike but I also know people who've managed to crack them. I think a lot depends on the weight of the rider and the quality of construction. I've got a fairly high end one and I'm pretty light so I don't think I stress it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I can't watch the video at the moment. However you would need to do a blind test to prove anything so the rider doesn't know he's on a 12k bike. A 12K bike might be faster than a 1K bike but it may be one component that makes the major difference. You can get a bike that weighs 8kg for around a grand, that's already pretty light. The minimum racing weight for pro bikes is 6.8kg. 1.2kg will be a few seconds on a long climb and make virtually no difference on the flat. For punters wheels and tires make the biggest difference. If you are buying Shimano anything from Tiagra up will do the job. Aluminum frames give a harsher ride compared to carbon, so for older riders carbon is not a bad idea. If you want a good compromise the Decathlon Triban 7 A is not bad, carbon fork and stays, Tiagra group set. I crossed a guy on the Petit St Bernard riding this in spring and he rode it all over the place. If it can cope with alpine passes it can cope with the south downs. Change the saddle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Interesting question that one. Certainly for going up hill weight is where it's at. I'm less sure about on the flat though, I would think that rigidity and rolling resistance would be bigger factors. I think it's about 3watts of extra power needed for each kilo of weight to propel a racing bike at 25mph on the flat. Doesn't sound much but a super lightweight bike weighing 15pound versus a 25pound bike would need around 10watts less power at 25mph. Rotating weight makes even more of a difference too. Something not right with those times especially with the x pro guy, no way would there be a 30 second difference between the cheapest and most expensive bikes over such a short course. edited to add: there's a fair bit of uphill so the difference will be exagerated compared to the flat but still not 30 seconds in a mile. also noticed at least the £1200 bike has no clipless pedals on it, just standard flat pedals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Interesting question that one. Certainly for going up hill weight is where it's at. I'm less sure about on the flat though, I would think that rigidity and rolling resistance would be bigger factors. You'll note that TT stages in grand tours are often ridden on heavier, stiffer TT bikes. The key one Froome did in this year's tour featured a hilly opening section and a long descent to the line; many riders swapped bikes at the top of the descent, crucially Contador did not and lost a lot of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I think it's about 3watts of extra power needed for each kilo of weight to propel a racing bike at 25mph on the flat. Doesn't sound much but a super lightweight bike weighing 15pound versus a 25pound bike would need around 10watts less power at 25mph. Rotating weight makes even more of a difference too. Does weight make any difference on the flat? The energy is being used to overcome wind resistance and a bit of mechanical resistance, can't see how the weight is going to affect either. On the slopes it's going to be different of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 http://www.telegraph...ey-buy-you.html Actually, the bikes made a lot more difference than I would have expected. I don't care about the diminishing returns either, I still want the 12K one! There's no way a titanium frame needs to cost 6K. most are made in Russia or China for a fraction of that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Does weight make any difference on the flat? The energy is being used to overcome wind resistance and a bit of mechanical resistance, can't see how the weight is going to affect either. On the slopes it's going to be different of course. I think so, maybe it's the extra weight pushing down on the tyres/hubs/bearings as well effecting it. Taking it to the extremes if say 100kg of weight could be added to the bike (and not changing the aerodynamics) i'm sure it would take more power to move it along at 25mph, or taking it much further say for example 300 watts is needed to propel a 10 stone guy on a bike at a constant 25mph could a ton be added and still only need 300 watts at 25mph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Does weight make any difference on the flat? The energy is being used to overcome wind resistance and a bit of mechanical resistance, can't see how the weight is going to affect either. On the slopes it's going to be different of course. Of course it does. Only question is whether the minor weight saving is worth ££££ , especially when its cheaper to lose it from your belly instead. Try an experiment with 10kg strapped to your bike and you'll notice, flats or hills. Try it with 1 kg and you probably won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 You'll note that TT stages in grand tours are often ridden on heavier, stiffer TT bikes. The key one Froome did in this year's tour featured a hilly opening section and a long descent to the line; many riders swapped bikes at the top of the descent, crucially Contador did not and lost a lot of time. It's mostly about the aerodynamics with TT Bikes, aero forks, aero frames (debatable about how much these frame actually save in total) and the 2 most important things aero rear disc wheel and tri-bars. Contador lost a lot of time by not having bar-end shifters, he had to keep coming off the bars and comprimised his aero position, makes a big difference doing about 40mph+ down a long big hill/mountain, yes not changing cost him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 although it sounds counter intuitive, I think that weight does make a difference on the flat. Compare pushing a bike with pushing a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooden Top Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I ride every day and use the car very rarely (bike cost more than the car) so to me spending money on my bikes is justified :-) I have a sunny day Pinarello bike that cost a few grand but use my 'cheapo' one grand bike for commuting. The difference between the two weight wise is not much but the handling and looks of the pinarello are amazing. Of course the missus will never understand. A good bike fit is worth every penny though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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