interestrateripoff Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2013/sep/16/washington-dc-navy-yard-shooting-live Multiple deaths after Washington naval yard shootings• DC police confirm one gunman dead at scene • Police chief describes two more potential gunmen • Officials say incident is fluid and ongoing Summary • One gunman is dead after a number of people were shot at the US navy yard on Monday morning, police said. DC police chief Cathy Lanier said a suspect was deceased, but details remain unclear. Lanier told reports that police "potentially have two other shooters that we have not located at this point". • The two other potential suspects are both male and were wearing military-style clothing, Lanier said. One of the men was white and was last seen at "around 8.35am this morning with a handgun," she said. The second man was black, around 50-years-old, and was carrying a rifle. Police are appealing for information on the men. • "Multiple victims" were killed in the shooting, Lanier said. She did not give exact numbers of the dead. Three victims were taken to MedStar Washington Hospital Center, were all three were in a critical condition, the hospital's chief medical officer Janis Orlowski said. The three were expected to survive. • A police officer is among those injured, with multiple gunshot wounds to his legs, Orlowski said. She said the man had injuries to "bones and blood vessels in his legs". The other two MedStar patients were female. One had been shot in her shoulder, the other in her head and hand. • Eye-witnesses recalled how a gunman had fired at them in the Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters building. One man, who was not named, told CNN that as he and his colleagues left the building "we noticed him down the hall". The witness added: "As he came round the corner he aimed his gun at us and he fired at least two or three shots." • President Obama said the victims had faced "unimaginable violence" and offered his condolences to their families. "We will honour their service to the nation we helped to make great," Obama said. "Obviously we will investigate thoroughly what has happened, as we have so many of these shootings that has happened sadly." • Security has been increased at the Pentagon as a "proactive, precautionary measure". Department of defense spokesman George Little described the shooting as "a fluid situation". He said navy officials are working with law enforcement and the FBI "to secure the scene and begin the investigation". I wonder who carried this out, another disgruntled service man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2013/sep/16/washington-dc-navy-yard-shooting-live I wonder who carried this out, another disgruntled service man? Somone who lost their job recently it is being reported. Probably speculation at the moment as the identity of the gunman is not known. They are hunting two others. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuG III Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Can they blame it on Assad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 50 odd year old HP contractor, took shotgun in and stole pistol and AR-15 from victim Police/Navy Security...was a known nutter and prolly on the old psychotropics. Sick Politicians already making hay without the facts. note...shotgun is the gun controllers weapon of choice/approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/09/17/uk-usa-navy-shooting-idUKBRE98F0F420130917 A U.S. military veteran opened fire at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday in a burst of violence that killed 13 people, including the gunman, and set off waves of panic at the military installation just miles from the White House and U.S. Capitol.The FBI identified the suspect as Aaron Alexis, 34, of Fort Worth, Texas, a Navy contractor who had two gun-related brushes with the law. He was discharged from the Navy Reserve in 2011 after a series of misconduct issues, a Navy official said. He was killed in one of several gun battles with police after he entered the Naval Sea Systems Command headquarters about 8:20 a.m. (1220 GMT) and started picking off victims in a cafeteria from a fourth-floor atrium, witnesses said. I wonder what narrative we'll get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 AR-15. 'Only' 12 dead. Sounds like he was targetting individuals rather than randomly killing people. He could have killed an awful lot more with that weapon if he had the ammo and was just randomly killing. Apparently people who have just lost their jobs make up a sizeable percentage of gun killers in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 AR-15. 'Only' 12 dead. Sounds like he was targetting individuals rather than randomly killing people. He could have killed an awful lot more with that weapon if he had the ammo and was just randomly killing. Apparently people who have just lost their jobs make up a sizeable percentage of gun killers in the US. I dont think the AR 15 is auto...probably has a similar fire rate to the pistol he took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuG III Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I dont think the AR 15 is auto...probably has a similar fire rate to the pistol he took. Maybe, but considerably more lethal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Maybe, but considerably more lethal hmm...one is a "range" weapon, the other is "close" weapon...both are equally deadly...the AR15 almost useless close up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Almost useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMac Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 AR-15. 'Only' 12 dead. Sounds like he was targetting individuals rather than randomly killing people. He could have killed an awful lot more with that weapon if he had the ammo and was just randomly killing. This assumes people don't notice there's a massacre going on and stay in the line of fire. Us humans have a remarkable sense of self-preservation and will tend to avoid unhinged murderers. That's why the death toll was so high in that Norway shooting - it was an island with nowhere to escape and no one to defend the attack. Also due to their psychotic nature they are usually very hap-hazard ie they are not trained killers, just deranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMac Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 hmm...one is a "range" weapon, the other is "close" weapon...both are equally deadly...the AR15 almost useless close up. The AR15 is a close to medium range small arm. Unless the target has grabbed you from behind its still pretty lethal however close they are - easier to aim than a pistol and far more deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuG III Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 hmm...one is a "range" weapon, the other is "close" weapon...both are equally deadly...the AR15 almost useless close up. An AR15 will have a muzzle velocity of around 950 m/s, which is about 3 times that of a pistol. Kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity. Pistols just poke holes in you. Its the high velocity of rifle shot causing hydrostatic shock that does really horrific damage to flesh and bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 An AR15 will have a muzzle velocity of around 950 m/s, which is about 3 times that of a pistol. Kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity. Pistols just poke holes in you. Its the high velocity of rifle shot causing hydrostatic shock that does really horrific damage to flesh and bone. interesting...but not really what I was saying...horses for courses...as for poking holes, the shotgun would have been the close weapon of choice as it does take chunks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMac Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 interesting...but not really what I was saying...horses for courses...as for poking holes, the shotgun would have been the close weapon of choice as it does take chunks... Reminds me of theboxotruth.com where the guy there who tests round penetration has a kind of catchphrase: rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols, you can't compare the two in terms of lethality, they are not in the same league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Reminds me of theboxotruth.com where the guy there who tests round penetration has a kind of catchphrase: rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols, you can't compare the two in terms of lethality, they are not in the same league. Im told you can down a helicopter with a well placed orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMac Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Im told you can down a helicopter with a well placed orange. Up the exhaust pipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Im told you can down a helicopter with a well placed orange. Yes, you give one to a pilot and he gets sticky juice all over his hands whilst unpeeling it. When he reaches for a tissue you blow it out of the sky with a stinger missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Up the exhaust pipe? been to a lot of airshows, and the Military ones were very keen to remove flying rubbish, cans, anything that could end up in an air intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 been to a lot of airshows, and the Military ones were very keen to remove flying rubbish, cans, anything that could end up in an air intake. wiki: FOD edit: summarising a post on 'ar15.com' by someone who appears to have done his statistical research on actual shootings... lethality of a single handgun hit = 30%ish, a rifle hit = 68%, a shotgun hit 65%, oranges = not studied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 been to a lot of airshows, and the Military ones were very keen to remove flying rubbish, cans, anything that could end up in an air intake. Get close enough to an air intake and a person can end up inside one. Minor injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 wiki: FOD edit: summarising a post on 'ar15.com' by someone who appears to have done his statistical research on actual shootings... lethality of a single handgun hit = 30%ish, a rifle hit = 68%, a shotgun hit 65%, oranges = not studied you see, there are statistics and statistics....In my Plod days, the firearms people were saying a hand gun at any more than 10 ft is a fair chance of a miss with a panicky shooter....less chance of a vital killing hit in other words. In order of threat, the thing they most feared in a shoot out was 1 the shotgun, 2 the rifle and 3 the pistol. However, All are lethal IF they hit...the shotgun sends out a large cone of small shots, the shorter the barrell, the bigger the cone and the damage...thats why a sawn off shotgun is a class 1 banned firearm...very deadly in inexperienced hands. Of course, lethality also depends on the ammo used...if I recall correctly a 357 Magnum will take your head clean off...if Clint is to be beleived that is...and Im feeling lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 you see, there are statistics and statistics....In my Plod days, the firearms people were saying a hand gun at any more than 10 ft is a fair chance of a miss with a panicky shooter....less chance of a vital killing hit in other words. In order of threat, the thing they most feared in a shoot out was 1 the shotgun, 2 the rifle and 3 the pistol. However, All are lethal IF they hit...the shotgun sends out a large cone of small shots, the shorter the barrell, the bigger the cone and the damage...thats why a sawn off shotgun is a class 1 banned firearm...very deadly in inexperienced hands. Of course, lethality also depends on the ammo used...if I recall correctly a 357 Magnum will take your head clean off...if Clint is to be beleived that is...and Im feeling lucky. According to that analysis of actual reported shootings I linked to there are some very counter-intuitive results for different pistol calibres. The relative lack of stopping power of handguns was nicely illustrated last year when the NYPD hit nine innocent bystanders with bullets and bullet fragments in a single shooting incident and didn't manage to kill any of them. NYPD Gunfire In Empire State Building Shooting Wounded All Nine Bystanders, Says Ray Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 According to that analysis of actual reported shootings I linked to there are some very counter-intuitive results for different pistol calibres. The relative lack of stopping power of handguns was nicely illustrated by last year when the NYPD hit nine innocent bystanders with bullets and bullet fragments in a single shooting incident and didn't manage to kill any of them. NYPD Gunfire In Empire State Building Shooting Wounded All Nine Bystanders, Says Ray Kelly Then again, US troops fire thousands of rounds of fully auto M16s at Taliban tribesmen and hit none of them either...it takes a gunship to actually hit anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Then again, US troops fire thousands of rounds of fully auto M16s at Taliban tribesmen and hit none of them either...it takes a gunship to actually hit anything. Even if you're standing on their backs and firing into their heads it still takes seven shots, plus four misses, to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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