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Making A Home From A Seaside Hotel

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I have been searching through rightmove as usual in one of my favourite areas and stumbled across a property that has got me thinking outside the box.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-41279237.html

74522_1006981_IMG_00_0000_max_620x414.JPG

Its a detached 12 bedroom victorian hotel in a terrible state of disrepair at what appears to me to be a reasonable £300,000. The location is Shanklin on the Isle of Wight and the old village where this property is located is very attractive. The road is yards from a lovely park and close to the coastal path and onward to the sandy beach. I think the hotel was formally called Priory Manor Hotel.

Now the property itself is rather large and grand for an average joe like myself but could it possibly be split into a maisonette through one entrance and perhaps 4 other apartments through the grand entrance.

I am thinking the maisonette for myself, the ground floor flat for my elderly parents, a flat to rent/ summer let as an income and two flats to sell to help fund the conversion.

Fag packet maths;

£300k purchase

£50k purchase costs, architect plans, change of use etc.

£50k landscaping, new entrance, fencing, security

£350k conversion costs

£50k contingency

-£350k sale of two flats

Total £450k outlay for owning three flats with rental income from one.

I am sure a developer could do this with ease but is this sort of thing possible for an average joe?

There is obviously more to this property than meets the eye as google maps shows it has other buildings than the floorplan details. Also the required resiting of access to a different road indicates other development as well.

Edited by pmcx9

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Probably cheeper to knock it down & build what you want.

I have been searching through rightmove as usual in one of my favourite areas and stumbled across a property that has got me thinking outside the box.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-41279237.html

Its a detached 12 bedroom victorian hotel in a terrible state of disrepair at what appears to me to be a reasonable £300,000. The location is Shanklin on the Isle of Wight and the old village where this property is located is very attractive. The road is yards from a lovely park and close to the coastal path and onward to the sandy beach. I think the hotel was formally called Priory Manor Hotel.

Now the property itself is rather large and grand for an average joe like myself but could it possibly be split into a maisonette through one entrance and perhaps 4 other apartments through the grand entrance.

I am thinking the maisonette for myself, the ground floor flat for my elderly parents, a flat to rent/ summer let as an income and two flats to sell to help fund the conversion.

Fag packet maths;

£300k purchase

£50k purchase costs, architect plans, change of use etc.

£50k landscaping, new entrance, fencing, security

£350k conversion costs

£50k contingency

-£350k sale of two flats

Total £450k outlay for owning three flats with rental income from one.

I am sure a developer could do this with ease but is this sort of thing possible for an average joe?

There is obviously more to this property than meets the eye as google maps shows it has other buildings than the floorplan details. Also the required resiting of access to a different road indicates other development as well.

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Couldn't you just buy a grand mansion in a cheaper part of the country for you and your parents and maybe you wouldn't need to become a developer to make it pay. This one is ready done at half the amount (of your development budget) and looks a bit grander to me. But 7000 square feet is a bit scarey.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-33488957.html

Edited by crashmonitor

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@crashmonitor - that is an impressive find.

However I like the thought of living very close to the sea, the area I am very fond of and I think Isle of Wight has arguably best climate in the UK too.

I have carried out half a dozen extensions/ refurbs on properties over the last 20 years and increasingly done more and more of the work myself. I guess I have one more project left in me and this particular one caught my eye.

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I am thinking the maisonette for myself, the ground floor flat for my elderly parents, a flat to rent/ summer let as an income and two flats to sell to help fund the conversion.

Fag packet maths;

£300k purchase

£50k purchase costs, architect plans, change of use etc.

£50k landscaping, new entrance, fencing, security

£350k conversion costs

£50k contingency

-£350k sale of two flats

Total £450k outlay for owning three flats with rental income from one.

I am sure a developer could do this with ease but is this sort of thing possible for an average joe?

Way too much risk there for me. We want so much, when we need so little. £800,000 all in on your numbers, and I'd fear something would come along to drain the money out of you. That's in deep for IoW I would have thought. Then the requirement to sell on the two flats at what you'd hope to achieve.

Wouldn't touch it without permissions granted for change of use + architect stuff done. They're asking £300,000 and you rough calcs suggest you'd pay £300K?! How long has it been on the market. Do developers on the IoW get much competition from the mainland, to keep their costs down? Too much land/price high fever about, when some plots/old commercial buildings in disrepair are just a huge expensive moneypit to own. Maybe if it was for a nominal pound. Are there really that many developers getting finance to be all over it?

The building, which is still vacant, has become derelict and has cost the taxpayer another £200,000 in maintenance, security and business and water rates.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-18428094

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-22760984

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@crashmonitor - that is an impressive find.

However I like the thought of living very close to the sea, the area I am very fond of and I think Isle of Wight has arguably best climate in the UK too.

I have carried out half a dozen extensions/ refurbs on properties over the last 20 years and increasingly done more and more of the work myself. I guess I have one more project left in me and this particular one caught my eye.

Since the numbers appear to work ok - there's enough slack in there to cover the inevitable cost overruns etc. I think what you're really asking is 'should I take on this enormous project?'. My answer to that would always be that, if you think it would be a fun challenge and, also, that you wouldn't be taking a massive risk elsewhere in your life to make space for it, why not? The fact that it's a property related project is almost besides the point (granny annexe excepted).

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@crashmonitor - that is an impressive find.

However I like the thought of living very close to the sea, the area I am very fond of and I think Isle of Wight has arguably best climate in the UK too.

I have carried out half a dozen extensions/ refurbs on properties over the last 20 years and increasingly done more and more of the work myself. I guess I have one more project left in me and this particular one caught my eye.

I was going to say, do you really know how much such a massive refurb is going to cost? But if you've done so many, I guess you'll have a realistic idea. Good luck with it if you go ahead - nothing venture, and all that...

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The Ecology building society are a lender who encourage this type of development. I have no idea what their current stand is on lending, probably as risk averse as all the others. Might be worth approaching them.

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Way too much risk there for me. We want so much, when we need so little. £800,000 all in on your numbers, and I'd fear something would come along to drain the money out of you. That's in deep for IoW I would have thought. Then the requirement to sell on the two flats at what you'd hope to achieve.

Yep good points there. I agree £800k is a huge investment in an area not influenced by the London mega bubble.

Those figures I quoted are quite arbitrary.

I have since found a 2bed flat in an old victorian house very nearby so clearing £250k for the 2 flats after costs is likely rather than the £350k I had imagined.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-41833532.html

Lets suggest a figure of £250k for the hotel purchase price assuming stamp duty affects commercial property the way residential is hit. The budget of £50k for landscaping, fencing and new entrance is ridiculous. I could do most of that myself so maybe £10k tops. I have just completely refurbished a 3bed house top to bottom for £20k. I guess you would need to assume my wages at another £20k on that figure so lets say £30k a flat for cosmetic refurb and a further £100k budget for windows, roof, fire division, sound insulation, splitting water, gas, electrics etc for the building. Thats £250k instead of £350k

My new figures again just arbitrary but hopefully someone can pull them apart who has experience of developing into flats;

£250k purchase

£40k purchase costs, architect plans, change of use etc.

£10k landscaping, new entrance, fencing, security

£250k conversion costs

£50k contingency

£600k gross

-£250k sale of two flats after costs

Total £350k outlay for owning three flats with rental income from one.

Edited by pmcx9

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Who has been watching Homes Under The Hammer then?

Haha. Just thinking outside the box. Major commitment and investment for 12 months to leave me with a lovely apartment in a great location, parents all safe and sorted, another flat providing a small income. Just the sort of thing I thought a lot of like minded people on this forum might consider.

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How well do you know IoW? Although it's unfair to generalise, going from a few of the IoW threads I've read on HPC, I would be very selective on which developer you chose. Check what planning and building control are like as well.

1. http://www.housepric...howtopic=134951

2. http://www.housepric...dpost&p=2611956

3. http://www.housepric...howtopic=136584

4. http://www.housepric...howtopic=156608

There's a few others I recall too, including an very odd tiled roof. Daft Boy and a few others used to do some good IoW threads, and hope they will add their thoughts to this one.

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From what I know the Isle of Wight is an unemployment blackspot. I would advise thinking of it as being a bit like a part of Cornwall of the tourist track rather than being like a prosperous Eastbourne or Christchurch.

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From what I know the Isle of Wight is an unemployment blackspot. I would advise thinking of it as being a bit like a part of Cornwall of the tourist track rather than being like a prosperous Eastbourne or Christchurch.

Got to agree with your assessment, some areas are quite expensive despite being fairly poor and the Isle of Wight is one of those places..........

http://onthewight.com/2008/10/01/nearly-half-islands-children-on-brink-of-poverty/

There are tourist destinations in Wales and rural North East Lincolnshire that are supposed to be poor, the house prices are very low and it just doesn't feel poor. GDP in these areas may be low too, but the quality of life looks high and indeed the housing stock looks far better than supposedly affluent areas (always think there is a solid look to rural Wales housing stock as compared to some of the jerry built stuff across the border in areas like Lancashire). Puzzles me how the Welsh (ignoring some of the rather unsightly social housing) could produce such good quality private housing but have amongst the lowest living standards. Perhaps cheaper land prices helps.

Edited by crashmonitor

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I have been searching through rightmove as usual in one of my favourite areas and stumbled across a property that has got me thinking outside the box.

http://www.rightmove...y-41279237.html

74522_1006981_IMG_00_0000_max_620x414.JPG

Its a detached 12 bedroom victorian hotel in a terrible state of disrepair at what appears to me to be a reasonable £300,000. The location is Shanklin on the Isle of Wight and the old village where this property is located is very attractive. The road is yards from a lovely park and close to the coastal path and onward to the sandy beach. I think the hotel was formally called Priory Manor Hotel.

Now the property itself is rather large and grand for an average joe like myself but could it possibly be split into a maisonette through one entrance and perhaps 4 other apartments through the grand entrance.

I am thinking the maisonette for myself, the ground floor flat for my elderly parents, a flat to rent/ summer let as an income and two flats to sell to help fund the conversion.

Fag packet maths;

£300k purchase

£50k purchase costs, architect plans, change of use etc.

£50k landscaping, new entrance, fencing, security

£350k conversion costs

£50k contingency

-£350k sale of two flats

Total £450k outlay for owning three flats with rental income from one.

I am sure a developer could do this with ease but is this sort of thing possible for an average joe?

There is obviously more to this property than meets the eye as google maps shows it has other buildings than the floorplan details. Also the required resiting of access to a different road indicates other development as well.

why not just buy this nearby ???

http://www.rightmove...y-36621796.html

there's another HUGE hotel nearby for about a million too.

.. regarding your original find, you'd need to know how much damage has been done to the fabric of the building, leaking roof for years perhaps? Is it listed? (I know of one guy who had to use original old tiles at four times the price and he had a huge roof too) need to know what you're getting for the price regarding any other buildings on the land if it's been sold seperate perhaps, shared access could be a nightmare. will the new developments spoil your view or cram you in? A lot of potential money pits here. Thinking of the negatives here.

Edited by motch

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I know that very place and I've always assumed it's been abandoned for a reason.

Shanklin (and that entire side of the Isle of Wight) moves - lots and lots of land slippage going on, and it's not just isolated to the coast/cliff edge.

Shanklin also has a massive drug problem, and all of the most troublesome social housing on the Island ends up there. There are no jobs there, so you'll be renting to these social tenants (the ones who like setting fire to their digs from time to time) or not at all.

It's a very odd place - beautiful old Victorian feel, very Tory (the old dinosaur type), peppered with skag heads.

You could sell, but you won't get anywhere near 175k for a flat in Shanklin. 100K tops I would have thought. More like 70-80k.

It'll also almost definitely be listed.

There are tons and tons of old hotels up for sale on the Isle of Wight for good reason at the moment, and most of them are getting left alone for a combination of these reasons.

Edited by byron78

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I know that very place and I've always assumed it's been abandoned for a reason.

Shanklin (and that entire side of the Isle of Wight) moves - lots and lots of land slippage going on, and it's not just isolated to the coast/cliff edge.

Shanklin also has a massive drug problem, and all of the most troublesome social housing on the Island ends up there. There are no jobs there, so you'll be renting to these social tenants (the ones who like setting fire to their digs from time to time) or not at all.

It's a very odd place - beautiful old Victorian feel, very Tory (the old dinosaur type), peppered with skag heads.

You could sell, but you won't get anywhere near 175k for a flat in Shanklin. 100K tops I would have thought. More like 70-80k.

It'll also almost definitely be listed.

There are tons and tons of old hotels up for sale on the Isle of Wight for good reason at the moment, and most of them are getting left alone for a combination of these reasons.

You have certainly given me massive cause for concern. I had no idea land slippage was affecting property that far from the edge. I had thought something 250m odd inland would be OK. I was also not aware the old village of Shanklin was so overrun with druggies. I spent a month there a couple of years ago and never noticed anything that would have worried me. Now if you had said Ryde had a problem I wouldn't have been suprised.

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why not just buy this nearby ???

http://www.rightmove...y-36621796.html

there's another HUGE hotel nearby for about a million too.

.. regarding your original find, you'd need to know how much damage has been done to the fabric of the building, leaking roof for years perhaps? Is it listed? (I know of one guy who had to use original old tiles at four times the price and he had a huge roof too) need to know what you're getting for the price regarding any other buildings on the land if it's been sold seperate perhaps, shared access could be a nightmare. will the new developments spoil your view or cram you in? A lot of potential money pits here. Thinking of the negatives here.

Quite.

Personally,I'd be approaching the old hotel on the basis that I'd be doing the owner a favour to take the business rates and upkeep off their hands.On that basis then I'd probably be well south of the asking price.

If that sticks in their throat too much,then move on.There will be other oppurtunities like the one above.In my experience,at the moment,the bigger places are struggling to shift particularly old B&B's with dated decor and 1970's sized rooms with an en suite crammed in.

The hotel has 'money pit' written all over it.Never underestimate the wearing effect of negative cashflow on a prospective asset sale.Have you investigated the particulars of the owners' position?

edit to add,it's been on since April 2013,so if it was a steal,someone would have had it straightaway.

Edited by Sancho Panza

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You have certainly given me massive cause for concern. I had no idea land slippage was affecting property that far from the edge. I had thought something 250m odd inland would be OK. I was also not aware the old village of Shanklin was so overrun with druggies. I spent a month there a couple of years ago and never noticed anything that would have worried me. Now if you had said Ryde had a problem I wouldn't have been suprised.

Shanklin is bad precisely because of all the huge old Hotels and B&Bs - basically the local council uses these to emergency house all of their most troublesome tenants. It's quite busy in summer with tourists - the "locals" are a lot more noticeable in the winter sadly.

Yeah... anything towards the coast that side of the island can have slippage and structural problems - it doesn't need to be by the cliff to move. Shanklin is built around a natural Chine with quite an elaborate cave structure cutting right back in under much of it. I know that place as I said, and it's definitely elevated (although not right on the cliffs by a long way).

Ventnor also has a lot of buildings quite far in land that have the tell-tell "death cracks" because there's constant (very gradual) movement.

If it's still undeveloped after the boom over the past 15 years there's probably good reason.

Edited by byron78

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why not just buy this nearby ???

http://www.rightmove...y-36621796.html

there's another HUGE hotel nearby for about a million too.

.. regarding your original find, you'd need to know how much damage has been done to the fabric of the building, leaking roof for years perhaps? Is it listed? (I know of one guy who had to use original old tiles at four times the price and he had a huge roof too) need to know what you're getting for the price regarding any other buildings on the land if it's been sold seperate perhaps, shared access could be a nightmare. will the new developments spoil your view or cram you in? A lot of potential money pits here. Thinking of the negatives here.

Wow. I reckon a lot of these places will end up being old folks home with money pouring in from the state in a few years time.

Whereas what they SHOULD be are secret bases for superheroes, obviously.

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