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Shoppers In England To Be Charged For Plastic Bags

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So life gets that little bit worse. I really hate do-gooders interfering in everything, forcing me to pay more for basic stuff so that they can pat themselves on the back at some perceived great work they have done.

'Oh look! Look at all the plastic bags everywhere! They cover every inch of the countryside! Honestly they do!'

Get stuffed.

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I saw a charge for plastic bags comming back in about 2003 and started hoarding them, I had a cupboard full which I threw away when I moved. It's now finally imminent.

I saw the HPC coming in 2003, it's been a while but it's coming now.

5 year gilt / treauries yield:

Today Year ago Percent rise

UK 1.73 0.91 90%

US 1.76 0.71 148%

http://www.yieldcurve.com/MktYCplotter.asp

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Saw on a previous page that the 5p from plastic bag sale in NI is apparently given to charity - in reality it goes to the Department of the Environment.

The money raised will be used to help communities, charities, businesses, schools and voluntary organisations to deliver local projects to improve the environment for everyone.

It will be interesting next April to see the break down of how this money was divided. Also keen to see how much the running and administration costs are.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/carrier-bag-levy

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So life gets that little bit worse. I really hate do-gooders interfering in everything, forcing me to pay more for basic stuff so that they can pat themselves on the back at some perceived great work they have done.

'Oh look! Look at all the plastic bags everywhere! They cover every inch of the countryside! Honestly they do!'

Get stuffed.

Tragic attitude

Reasoning here

Edited by LiveinHope

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Plastic carrier bags only account for a small amount of the total packaging of your shopping. It is amazing how many packages are only partially filled. Soap powder and dishwasher tablets to name but two.

Amusing anecdote:

I was in our local hardware shop the other day. A rather plummy lady was purchasing a kitchen bin. She asked to purchase some bin liners for it. The assistant told her that it was designed to take the standard supermarket bags. Plummy lady responded "Oh no I dont use those think of the environment, I want to buy some bin liners". Wot a plank! I bet she votes Limp Dem.

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[quote name=Oh Well :(' timestamp='1379265942' post='909392553]

Plastic carrier bags only account for a small amount of the total packaging of your shopping. It is amazing how many packages are only partially filled. Soap powder and dishwasher tablets to name but two.

Amusing anecdote:

I was in our local hardware shop the other day. A rather plummy lady was purchasing a kitchen bin. She asked to purchase some bin liners for it. The assistant told her that it was designed to take the standard supermarket bags. Plummy lady responded "Oh no I dont use those think of the environment, I want to buy some bin liners". Wot a plank! I bet she votes Limp Dem.

Agree,

But I am sure you have seen people buy one packaged item, such as a bottle of shampoo, and put it in a carrier to transport it to their car.

Although they might have wanted the carrier for their bin liner, most people are either stupid or lazy, or both, and often willfully neglectful of the environment to boot. Hell, enough threads on here lament about these facts.

Edited by LiveinHope

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What a good idea if supermarkets would sell liquids such as shampoo, detergent, washing up liquid by the litre....customers bring their own containers to refill. ;)

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Took me all of five minutes to find out modern plastic shopping bags are made from bioplastics which are made from vegetable fat. In other words a renewable resource. They are biodegradable. There is no reason at all to tax them, other than a pretense to win votes from idiot environmentalists.

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Go on then, let's hear this genius reason that biodegradable shopping bags need to be taxed.

I read that you were referring to petrochemical derived plastic, which although it is organic and does biodegrade eventually, takes rather a while to do so and during the process cause s bit of environmental damage including generating rather a lot of microplastics, so much so that the sea is now littered with the stuff.

Being a terrestrial species though, most people tend not to observe 75% of our planet or 97% of its water, or 99% of its habitable space, with much interest or apparent concern.

Much discussion here as I alluded.

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I read that you were referring to petrochemical derived plastic, which although it is organic and does biodegrade eventually, takes rather a while to do so and during the process cause s bit of environmental damage including generating rather a lot of microplastics, so much so that the sea is now littered with the stuff.

Being a terrestrial species though, most people tend not to observe 75% of our planet or 97% of its water, or 99% of its habitable space, with much interest or apparent concern.

Much discussion here as I alluded.

'modern bags are made of vegetable-based bioplastics, which can decay organically and prevent a build-up of toxic plastic bags in landfills and the natural environment.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_shopping_bag

Try again.

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If you want to make a statement about being a tree hugger you should buy a green woolly jumper and a pair of sandals, instead of taxing what little money the rest of us have away.

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'modern bags are made of vegetable-based bioplastics, which can decay organically and prevent a build-up of toxic plastic bags in landfills and the natural environment.'

Nice, firm, unambiguous statement - It's good.

I'll quote from your chosen source of information*:

modern plastic shopping bags are increasingly recyclable or biodegradable
Some modern bags are made of vegetable-based bioplastics

It's fine, though, you trash your environment. The islanders of Harris are burning the very ground beneath their feet because they have always done it.

It really doesn't matter to me, so 'tree hugging' comments are like, well, water off a diuck's back.

Most life to have existed on Earth is extinct, typically due to stochastic external effects. Geological timescales are far longer than the life of plastic.

Plastic persists longer than us, however.

AFAIC, so long as people have knowledge it is up to them to do as they wish.

I'll live my life, sympathetically I hope, but I'll be gone before the regrets of later generations.

Just because you can't see plastic, doesn't mean it's not there.

* Again, here's my preferred reading in Phil. Trans. Plastics, the environment and human health. Pay your money (or not) and take your chances, I guess

Edited by LiveinHope

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Of course, you aren't compelled to buy a special pesticide laden cloth bag to shop with. I use a ruck sack made from synthetic materials which is nearly 20 years old, and must have done thousands of shopping and other trips with it by now.

Since I moved to Wales my plastic bag usage has reduced to near zero. Sure, it doesn't make a huge difference in the scheme of things but it does raise everyday awareness of reducing consumption and waste a little. And anyone who's been to certain parts of Africa can see just how much of an eyesore plastic bags can be.

There's probably no argument over the reduction of plastic bags as litter. In that case a nudge-charge is a good idea.

There is the issue over plastic particles persisting in the environment. The practice will be to sell enduring plastic bags (not just canvas/cotton), and there's no reason to think that practice will reduce the pollution. HPCers may be conscientious about bringing rucksacks to Lidl and whatnot, but the existing market will largely be replaced with sales of the enduring stuff at the checkout. There must be studies on this, so a link would be helpful.

The link I gave earlier deals with the canvas/cotton/"Bag For Life" issue - multiple increase in pollution/energy at the production level rather than at the disposal end + how people actually use these bags = BS public relations by state-subsidised food corporations.

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There's probably no argument over the reduction of plastic bags as litter. In that case a nudge-charge is a good idea.

There is the issue over plastic particles persisting in the environment. The practice will be to sell enduring plastic bags (not just canvas/cotton), and there's no reason to think that practice will reduce the pollution. HPCers may be conscientious about bringing rucksacks to Lidl and whatnot, but the existing market will largely be replaced with sales of the enduring stuff at the checkout. There must be studies on this, so a link would be helpful.

The link I gave earlier deals with the canvas/cotton/"Bag For Life" issue - multiple increase in pollution/energy at the production level rather than at the disposal end + how people actually use these bags = BS public relations by state-subsidised food corporations.

The Republic of Ireland’s carrier bag charge introduced in 2002 cut usage by 90 per cent within months. The 5p per bag charge introduced in Wales in October 2011 has brought a near 80% reduction in bags issued, and the Northern Ireland 5p levy introduced in April is thought likely to be having a similar effect.

http://www.sourcewire.com/news/79300/how-long-will-england-hold-out-against-a-carrier-bag

http://www.rethinkwasteni.org/at-home/reduce/carrierbaglevy/

Previous to the charge in NI, I would have taken a bag if visiting local shops on foot, but rarely would I have brought bags when doing a big shop. Of course, I do now. Habits change quickly when there's little choice. There are noticeably fewer bag decorated hedges and trees, where I am, anyway.

.

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There are plastic bags in the countryside because some people are inconsiderate arseholes not because bags are free.

We are going to be charged for them because politicians and voters are dumb not because bags are a problem.

Unfortunately it seems to me that the bits in bold are behind most of the worlds problems.

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There are plastic bags in the countryside because some people are inconsiderate arseholes not because bags are free.

We are going to be charged for them because politicians and voters are dumb not because bags are a problem.

Unfortunately it seems to me that the bits in bold are behind most of the worlds problems.

Actually, the unsightly visible plastic bags in the countryside don't worry me overly much. I agree with your sections in bold. It's the extent of the plastic 'pollution' in the environment per se that is the problem.

Edited by LiveinHope

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There are noticeably fewer bag decorated hedges and trees, where I am, anyway.

.

Couldn't find a single one where I am and for miles around. Clean as a whistle.

Maybe it's the area where Clegg lives that has the problems.

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Actually, the unsightly visible plastic bags in the countryside don't worry me overly much. I agree with your sections in bold. It's the extent of the plastic 'pollution' in the environment per se that is the problem.

but plastic bags are usually used for bins. if you dont use a supermarket bag, youll need to use a black bag.

note asda smart price refuse sacks are £1.09 for 45. thats 2.4p each.

ill bet you any money if i bought a pack ,opened it to carry my shopping home in them , then used them as bin liners, people would say i am doing good things for the environment as i am reusing bags.

but if i get a bag for free, and reuse that bag for my bin liners people would argue "its bad for the environment".

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but plastic bags are usually used for bins. if you dont use a supermarket bag, youll need to use a black bag.

note asda smart price refuse sacks are £1.09 for 45. thats 2.4p each.

ill bet you any money if i bought a pack ,opened it to carry my shopping home in them , then used them as bin liners, people would say i am doing good things for the environment as i am reusing bags.

but if i get a bag for free, and reuse that bag for my bin liners people would argue "its bad for the environment".

Yes,

but lining a plastic bin with a plastic bag into which you put plastic wrappers is an unnecessary practice in the first place ;)

Edited by LiveinHope

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Not only plastic bags but all sorts of rubbish is tossed into the environment often without any thought of the consequences, saw large plastic fizzy pop bottles floating in the water the other day, all manner of stuff chucked from cars as and when...there are a few out there that don't care, with attitudes like that makes you wonder if litter and other damage or pollution to the places we live and share will ever be overcome....it takes a few of the rest to clean up after the few that spoil it..... ;)

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Seriously, all this fuss about being charged for plastic bags? :huh:

It's not exactly the Corn Laws all over again, is it?

There are plenty of ways to carry your shopping home. I think people have just become accustomed to the ritual of putting their purchases inside a bit of branded plastic.

Maybe it's an age thing.

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