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Un Report Criticising 'bedroom Tax'


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Regarding your 1st paragraph, really very strange language there, and I really don't know what you meant, sorry.

What I was asking is how driving people in social housing into despair greases the wheels of the free market in housing- for example this woman;

This Is What Austerity Looks Like – First Suicide Due To Bedroom Tax Reported

The welfare reform death toll has risen by one more tragic victim the Sunday People is reporting. The papers says:

Ten days ago Stephanie Bottrill sat in the redbrick terrace house which had been home for 18 years to write notes to her loved ones, the Sunday People reports .

She ripped the pages from a spiral-bound notebook and placed them neatly in little brown envelopes.

There was one for her son. Another for her daughter. Her mother. Friends. And a very special one for the year-old grandson she doted on.

Then in the early hours of last Saturday Stephanie, 53, left her home for the last time, leaving her cat Joey behind as the front-door clicked shut.

She crossed her road in Meriden Drive, Solihull, to drop one of her letters and her house keys through a neighbour’s letterbox. Then she walked 15 minutes through the sleeping estate to Junction 4 of the M6.

And at 6.15am she walked straight into the path of a northbound lorry and was killed instantly. Stephanie Bottrill had become the first known suicide victim of the hated Bedroom Tax.

In the letter to her son, Steven, 27, she had written: “Don’t blame yourself for me ending my life. The only people to blame are the Government.”

Is it really necessary to do this to people in order to achieve affordable housing in the UK?

Using human beings as cannon fodder in an effort to reduce housing benefit costs is a pretty despicable policy in my view. Maybe if the government spent taxpayers money building more social housing rather than propping up house prices with Help to Buy it might get better outcomes.

Edited by wonderpup
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because they are stupid doesn't mean that everything they do is wrong.

:lol:

Maybe not- but complaining about subsidising spare bedrooms and then introducing a scheme to subsidise entire houses is very stupid- unless the truth is that they never really cared about the spare bedroom issue and were just using it as a cheap way to garner support- just as Help to buy is an expensive way to garner support.

The bedroom tax is a failed policy in it's own terms- instead of increasing the supply of social housing available it has reduced it because people now can't afford to take on larger houses in the social sector due to the increased cost of doing so- as a result the housing associations have large three or four bedroomed houses sitting empty even as their waiting lists grow due to the reality that they don't have enough smaller properties to meet demand.

The Tory position here is an utter shambles- they claim to want to increase housing availability but at both ends of the spectrum they are doing the opposite- pricing social tenants out of the housing associations via the bedroom tax and pricing the rest of us out of the private sector via help to buy, which is inevitably going to inflate the cost of private homes even more.

Edited by wonderpup
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Councillor Baggy Shanker, cabinet member for housing and advice, said the authority was making sure "at least one offer for downsizing" was being made to those in arrears due to the penalty before any eviction was made.

Read more: http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/bedroom-tax-eviction-exemptions-set-rejected/story-19810522-detail/story.html#ixzz2fEXQm6DZ

He said: "We can't rule out pursuing people for not paying their rent. Can you imagine if we did that? What incentive would that give people to pay their rent on time?"

Edited by SarahBell
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What I was asking is how driving people in social housing into despair greases the wheels of the free market in housing- for example this woman;

This Is What Austerity Looks Like – First Suicide Due To Bedroom Tax Reported

The welfare reform death toll has risen by one more tragic victim the Sunday People is reporting. The papers says:

Ten days ago Stephanie Bottrill sat in the redbrick terrace house which had been home for 18 years to write notes to her loved ones, the Sunday People reports .

She ripped the pages from a spiral-bound notebook and placed them neatly in little brown envelopes.

There was one for her son. Another for her daughter. Her mother. Friends. And a very special one for the year-old grandson she doted on.

Then in the early hours of last Saturday Stephanie, 53, left her home for the last time, leaving her cat Joey behind as the front-door clicked shut.

She crossed her road in Meriden Drive, Solihull, to drop one of her letters and her house keys through a neighbour’s letterbox. Then she walked 15 minutes through the sleeping estate to Junction 4 of the M6.

And at 6.15am she walked straight into the path of a northbound lorry and was killed instantly. Stephanie Bottrill had become the first known suicide victim of the hated Bedroom Tax.

In the letter to her son, Steven, 27, she had written: “Don’t blame yourself for me ending my life. The only people to blame are the Government.”

Is it really necessary to do this to people in order to achieve affordable housing in the UK?

Using human beings as cannon fodder in an effort to reduce housing benefit costs is a pretty despicable policy in my view. Maybe if the government spent taxpayers money building more social housing rather than propping up house prices with Help to Buy it might get better outcomes.

I saw that story and she lives in a nicer house than I do. Should everyone who lives in a flat or doesn't have a large garden commit suicide? Or just those who had them for years for free and now don't get really nice housing for free?

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What I was asking is how driving people in social housing into despair greases the wheels of the free market in housing- for example this woman;

Is it really necessary to do this to people in order to achieve affordable housing in the UK?

Using human beings as cannon fodder in an effort to reduce housing benefit costs is a pretty despicable policy in my view. Maybe if the government spent taxpayers money building more social housing rather than propping up house prices with Help to Buy it might get better outcomes.

Very tragic story. I understand there is an inquest about it. There was probably other causes for her extreme behaviour. Until the inquest is published we can't know for sure, and until then I think you shouldn't use her personal tragedy to base your argument.

But I do agree with your premise (if I understood you correctly), that the root cause is a housing shortage. As I wrote above, we shouldn't keep robbing Paul to house Peter, we should instead liberalise planning, allowing 100s of thousands of individuals and small local building companies to build more homes. IMHO we could solve the shortage in 3 years, building a million homes, mainly the SE, say some 300k/year.

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting
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I saw that story and she lives in a nicer house than I do. Should everyone who lives in a flat or doesn't have a large garden commit suicide? Or just those who had them for years for free and now don't get really nice housing for free?

This would have been a major shock to somebody who thought that, at 53, she knew what the future held for her.

It was not her fault that has been part of an entitlement culture with housing associations putting in new bathrooms / kitchens every few years for people who have their rent paid by the state.

The reforms are well overdue and I entirely agree with them (and think they should be wider and include pensioners) but there should have been much more thought given to the likely impact so support could be given and a significant transition period put in place.

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Maybe Stephanie Bottrill had other major disasters all happen at the same time, like she lost her TV remote or the data plan on her phone wasn't sufficient. Good to read that she doesn't blame her son for any of this. She should have went and spent a week with a couple of Syrian refugee families whose children/wives/husbands have been slaughtered/poisoned/raped etc. and then came back and grown the ****** up.

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This would have been a major shock to somebody who thought that, at 53, she knew what the future held for her.

It was not her fault that has been part of an entitlement culture with housing associations putting in new bathrooms / kitchens every few years for people who have their rent paid by the state.

The reforms are well overdue and I entirely agree with them (and think they should be wider and include pensioners) but there should have been much more thought given to the likely impact so support could be given and a significant transition period put in place.

53 is not that old, there are people at 53 who have to change career (not a problem for her of course).

Actually I think it was partly her fault - she should have realised that not everyone lives like her.

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I saw that story and she lives in a nicer house than I do. Should everyone who lives in a flat or doesn't have a large garden commit suicide? Or just those who had them for years for free and now don't get really nice housing for free?

This is incoherent. If the housing was free then she would not have had a problem paying the rent- there would be no rent. People in social housing pay rents that are-supposedly- below market rates- their homes are not rent free.

The reason she killed herself is because she would be unable to pay that rent and so would be made homeless.

Non of this in any way addresses the real issues with social housing- it's just a bunch of millionaire Tory's trying to gain cheap brownie points with those who are so frustrated by the housing mess that they have developed a severe case of social housing envy and lust after places that in past they would not have been seen dead in.

When the middle classes start to size up the living quarters of those in social housing with an envious eye then you know that housing in the UK is seriously f*cked up.

Edited by wonderpup
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This is incoherent. If the housing was free then she would not have had a problem paying the rent- there would be no rent. People in social housing pay rents that are-supposedly- below market rates- their homes are not rent free.

The reason she killed herself is because she would be unable to pay that rent and so would be made homeless.

Not at all, the incoherence is why people are being extremely heavily taxed to put people up in accommodation better than they can afford. This basic injustice is never going to go away.

I barely got two pennies to rub together it seems these days. And my #1 expenditure, by a pretty gigantic margin, is tax. Direct taxation is over double my rent (admittedly I share so my rent is very low). Indirect taxation on top. It's obscene.

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Not at all, the incoherence is why people are being extremely heavily taxed to put people up in accommodation better than they can afford. This basic injustice is never going to go away.

I barely got two pennies to rub together it seems these days. And my #1 expenditure, by a pretty gigantic margin, is tax. Direct taxation is over double my rent (admittedly I share so my rent is very low). Indirect taxation on top. It's obscene.

As I said- social housing envy is symptomatic of a failure of the private housing sector to deliver housing that people such as yourself can afford.

To attack social housing tenants for living in housing that they cannot afford in market terms is absurd- because this is precisely what social housing is designed to achieve. If social housing cost the same as non social housing then it would cease to be social housing.

The problem with the bedroom tax is that it fails to conjure into being the alternate accommodation required to comply with it's claimed intent- which is to motivate social housing tenants to downsize to smaller social housing properties- that do not at present exist.

As I pointed out- even if we accept the official justification for the policy- that it is designed to maximize the utilisation of social housing stock- it fails. It fails because all it has achieved is to price out social housing tenants from larger properties- which now sit empty-while increasing the pressure on waiting lists even more.

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Maybe Stephanie Bottrill had other major disasters all happen at the same time, like she lost her TV remote or the data plan on her phone wasn't sufficient. Good to read that she doesn't blame her son for any of this. She should have went and spent a week with a couple of Syrian refugee families whose children/wives/husbands have been slaughtered/poisoned/raped etc. and then came back and grown the ****** up.

you will not win elections like this, my friend. plus BBC and Guardian would not have anything to write about ...

the reality is that we are controlled by 2 types of people:

- super rich, whome made money somehow - Torries

- super rich protectors of the weak - Labour, union bosses

we are screwed ... if houses are cheap then the both groups would loose the control

Edited by Damik
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As I said- social housing envy is symptomatic of a failure of the private housing sector to deliver housing that people such as yourself can afford.

To attack social housing tenants for living in housing that they cannot afford in market terms is absurd- because this is precisely what social housing is designed to achieve. If social housing cost the same as non social housing then it would cease to be social housing.

The problem with the bedroom tax is that it fails to conjure into being the alternate accommodation required to comply with it's claimed intent- which is to motivate social housing tenants to downsize to smaller social housing properties- that do not at present exist.

As I pointed out- even if we accept the official justification for the policy- that it is designed to maximize the utilisation of social housing stock- it fails. It fails because all it has achieved is to price out social housing tenants from larger properties- which now sit empty-while increasing the pressure on waiting lists even more.

the idea is that families will move from the private rental sector to social housing and the singles/couples will move from social housing to the private rental sector

simples ... as majority of people have at least one child, however usually only between 30 to 50 years of age

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the idea is that families will move from the private rental sector to social housing and the singles/couples will move from social housing to the private rental sector

I suspect this will cost more money than leaving them where they are- given the cost of private rentals- so is unlikely to happen. All the policy has achieved is to create fear and anxiety in the targets with nothing in particular to show for it.

I wonder how many people there are who awake sweating in the night, tortured by the thought that somewhere out there a social housing tenant might be in possession of one bedroom too many? :lol: Judging by the level of interest this topic generates there must be more than one might think.

Strangely the fact that there are large numbers of entire houses scattered throughout the south that sit empty most of the year seems to be entirely acceptable- despite the fact that these homes could be far better used by families who are desperate to find a place to live.

So while we persecute some people for apparently taking up more living space than they need- we carefully ignore other people who do exactly the same thing on a far grander scale.

So the issue is not being selfish and greedy in terms of scarce housing resources- the issue is not being able to pay for the right to be selfish and greedy in terms of scarce housing resources.

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I suspect this will cost more money than leaving them where they are- given the cost of private rentals- so is unlikely to happen. All the policy has achieved is to create fear and anxiety in the targets with nothing in particular to show for it.

I wonder how many people there are who awake sweating in the night, tortured by the thought that somewhere out there a social housing tenant might be in possession of one bedroom too many? :lol: Judging by the level of interest this topic generates there must be more than one might think.

Strangely the fact that there are large numbers of entire houses scattered throughout the south that sit empty most of the year seems to be entirely acceptable- despite the fact that these homes could be far better used by families who are desperate to find a place to live.

So while we persecute some people for apparently taking up more living space than they need- we carefully ignore other people who do exactly the same thing on a far grander scale.

So the issue is not being selfish and greedy in terms of scarce housing resources- the issue is not being able to pay for the right to be selfish and greedy in terms of scarce housing resources.

friends of mine have been waiting for a council housing for 10 years with 2 children; now they got just a flat. no point to keep singles/couples in the family homes ...

for some reasons you believe that some people shell be mor equel than other people

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The problem with social housing is that rents have gone up so much, they aren't worth it unless you get housing benefit.

Indeed it seems that is how they are valued. A place similar to mine has come up on the private market and the mortgage would be less than what I pay in rent.

I've no idea how much the Council would charge for maintenance or service charge for private buyers.

This is assuming interest rates remain at current levels of course.

Oh I must remember my place. I'm the 'subsidised' tenant of course. ;)

Edited by aSecureTenant
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Indeed it seems that is how they are valued. A place similar to mine has come up on the private market and the mortgage would be less than what I pay in rent.

I've no idea how much the Council would charge for maintenance or service charge for private buyers.

Oh I must remember my place. I'm the 'subsidised' tenant of course. ;)

Why don't you buy it if is cheaper?

I've no idea how much the Council would charge for maintenance or service charge for private buyers.

A lot if it is like London councils.

Oh I must remember my place. I'm the 'subsidised' tenant of course. ;)

I think if you do buy it you would realize that you were subsidised. Sadly ex council flats are not a good buy with service charges etc.

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There is no such thing as a bedroom tax, it is is a reduction in the amount of benefit you can receive if you are getting benefits for a house that is bigger than your needs. Most countries don't even have housing allowance ,and now we,re paying the cost of New Labour's wreckless open door immigration policy that saw our population grow by 4 million in 13 years ,without thinking about the consequences

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I did the maths of it in a previous post -using local housing rents/ lha round here and it saves the tax payer money.

You don't even have to rent the council house out at more - just move a 3bed private sector family into it and you're cutting the rent you pay.

On my street a council house is 80 pw (346pm) and private rented just on for 650 a month.

So the council house tenant is receiving a subsidy of £304 pounds a month if the free market rent for that house is £650 per month.

Is the £650 per month the rent allowance, or whatever it is called, for a 3 bed house in that area?

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So the council house tenant is receiving a subsidy of £304 pounds a month if the free market rent for that house is £650 per month.

Is the £650 per month the rent allowance, or whatever it is called, for a 3 bed house in that area?

That is a big subsidy. If someone was earning above the income tax threshold they would need to earn £5365 to get that. Many people have to work two + months to earn that.

Plus of course they get security of tenure which most be worth a bit.

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There is no such thing as a bedroom tax, it is is a reduction in the amount of benefit you can receive if you are getting benefits for a house that is bigger than your needs. Most countries don't even have housing allowance ,and now we,re paying the cost of New Labour's wreckless open door immigration policy that saw our population grow by 4 million in 13 years ,without thinking about the consequences

There is a bedroom tax. The bedroom tax exceeds the rent differential.

The bedroom tax exceeds the so called spare room subsidy. So the bedroom tax might be a removal of a 'spare room subsidy', but it is also a bedroom tax too. Thus the bedroom tax, is a bedroom tax (and a removal of 'spare room subsidy').

Where I am, single person...

3 Bed (social housing). Rent 80. HB = 60

1 Bed (social housing). Rent 67. HB = 67.

It is actually possible for the HB to exceed 80 in the 1bed (social housing), if furnished for example...

It could also be higher, if we were to take into account HB eligible services.

Some 1 bed housing can be rented in the PRS for £60, although most is £70/week.

SRR LHA is £60 you see.

Whilst 1 bed LHA is £70.

In some cases, some people subject to the bedroom tax, were arguably being given TOO LITTLE in housing benefits before being subject to the bedroom tax.

Whilst others, not subject to the bedroom tax are arguably being given TOO MUCH in benefits, due to social rents exceeding private rents.

Why should people get furniture benefit? (in the form of hb).

There is also the issue of box rooms, lofts, gardens, dining rooms, living rooms, room sizes, ceiling heights, window dimensions, location, location, location, build quality etc.

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