Low-Paid Temporary Workers To Lose Benefits For 'not Working Enough'

[dalek]

This is full-on war on the poor, no-holds-barred. And we are just lambs to the slaughter....

[interestrateripoff]

No surprise really poor people don't generate wealth or have ideas. It's why can be treated like the scum of the earth because they aren't high flying successful people as they choose to be poor.

Poor people really must work harder.

[Deft]

Lazy paupers.

All those stupid poor people are what is holding Britain back from being Great again.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Deft

[Mr. Miyagi]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/06/uk-lowest-paid-classed-not-working-enough

Guardian link.

I don't know about you, but I'm getting pretty fed up paying taxes so they can be used as a subsidy for employers that don't pay enough.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Mr. Miyagi

[byron78]

Really can't see the Tories getting elected in any capacity at the next general election.

Most of these policies appear tailored to the swivel eyed section of their party that would vote blue even if Cameron carved a swastika into his forehead.

People I know who had some degree of sympathy for measures such as this 12-18 months ago are starting to express sympathy for the poor and frustration at the boots that keep kicking them now.

[dalek]

People I know who had some degree of sympathy for measures such as this 12-18 months ago are starting to express sympathy for the poor and frustration at the boots that keep kicking them now.

Exactly. And about bloody time. Any of us could lose our job tomorrow - and when I did more than a year ago - I found myself a three-day week job, which I've loved, despite the low pay. Thankfully, not low enough to need any benefits. There but for the grace of God...

[winkie]

Exactly. And about bloody time. Any of us could lose our job tomorrow - and when I did more than a year ago - I found myself a three-day week job, which I've loved, despite the low pay. Thankfully, not low enough to need any benefits. There but for the grace of God...

This is where it is all wrong.....you should not need to claim benefits if you are working....your benefits are keeping you poor and dependant with few choices and keep those with far more continue making more......benefits benefit the rich....get it.

[byron78]

This is where it is all wrong.....you should not need to claim benefits if you are working....your benefits are keeping you poor and dependant with few choices and keep those with far more continue making more......benefits benefit the rich....get it.

I'm not sure they do, given the protracted and orchestrated attacks on benefits and the poor by the rich controlling sections of the media and government of late. It's true they created benefit culture not the poor though (the workers were pretty easily crushed by the removal of their jobs in the 80s) - unless those jobs come back I'm not

sure what the poor are supposed to do work wise.

[winkie]

I'm not sure they do, given the protracted and orchestrated attacks on benefits and the poor by the rich controlling sections of the media and government of late. It's true they created benefit culture not the poor though (the workers were pretty easily crushed by the removal of their jobs in the 80s) - unless those jobs come back I'm not

sure what the poor are supposed to do work wise.

....the big profits of big companies don't have to go towards paying their staff knowing they will get top-up benefits.......the benefits the low paid worker gets goes towards buying the goods and the services of the big companies and the people they rent their homes from making bigger profits for them.

If we were more competitive the big companies would not outsource the many jobs that do not need to be done here.......if living costs were not so high many wouldn't need to earn as much and would not need to claim benefits to live.

[Liquid Goldfish]

Really can't see the Tories getting elected in any capacity at the next general election.

Most of these policies appear tailored to the swivel eyed section of their party that would vote blue even if Cameron carved a swastika into his forehead.

It looks like none of it will happen until after the election, though.

Sources say that new JSA claims will be "shut down" by July 2015 while the tax credits system – created by Gordon Brown as Labour chancellor – will end for new claims by November that year. Meanwhile income support for lone parents will be terminated by October 2015. These benefits and others are planned to be folded into to one single universal payment.

[byron78]

....the big profits of big companies don't have to go towards paying their staff knowing they will get top-up benefits.......the benefits the low paid worker gets goes towards buying the goods and the services of the big companies and the people they rent their homes from making bigger profits for them.

If we were more competitive the big companies would not outsource the many jobs that do not need to be done here.......if living costs were not so high many wouldn't need to earn as much and would not need to claim benefits to live.

Off the top of my head I can't think of a developed world nation that can compete wage wise with an undeveloped low wage nation regardless of benefits.

China is possibly the exception, although it's a myth benefits don't exist there (they do to some extent at local level). I'd suggest the black market actually replaces an orchestrated benefit system in most undeveloped countries. We'd certainly get a booming one over here if benefits were entirely scrapped, and even without any benefits at all I doubt wages would be down to the pennies an hour needed to compete with overseas.

Edited September 7, 2013 by byron78

[winkie]

Off the top of my head I can't think of a developed world nation that can compete wage wise with an undeveloped low wage nation regardless of benefits.

China is possibly the exception, although it's a myth benefits don't exist there (they do to some extent at local level). I'd suggest the black market actually replaces an orchestrated benefit system in most undeveloped countries. We'd certainly get a booming one over here if benefits were entirely scrapped, and even without any benefits at all I doubt wages would be down to the pennies an hour needed to compete with overseas.

.....if the country is engineering a continuous growth in housing costs, fuel costs, food and import costs at the same time as knowing more people are receiving less pay and fewer hours and benefits (sick, holiday and pensions) there will have to be a benefit system of sorts.......the big companies don't mind, more money for them to take and invest elsewhere.

[durhamborn]

This was in the original UC legislation.

As UC will never cover tax credit claims before its scrapped I doubt anyone will ever be sanctioned who is working part time.

Even if UC does come in everyone will do what they do with tax credits,,work the minimum to get the maximum.If the DWPs think they can handle around 7 million claims like this good luck to them.

The ironic thing is many of the jobcentre advisors will have to sanction each other.

[wonderpup]

I'm confused- I thought a 'flexible' labor force was the key to success- but now we are going to persecute people for being flexible and having inconsistent work or working part time?

[@contradevian]

Really can't see the Tories getting elected in any capacity at the next general election.

Most of these policies appear tailored to the swivel eyed section of their party that would vote blue even if Cameron carved a swastika into his forehead.

People I know who had some degree of sympathy for measures such as this 12-18 months ago are starting to express sympathy for the poor and frustration at the boots that keep kicking them now.

Sadly the policies are decided on the views of the average Mail/Sun swing voter. Hence this madness on both sides of the LabourTory coin.

[OnionTerror]

This was in the original UC legislation.

As UC will never cover tax credit claims before its scrapped I doubt anyone will ever be sanctioned who is working part time.

Even if UC does come in everyone will do what they do with tax credits,,work the minimum to get the maximum.If the DWPs think they can handle around 7 million claims like this good luck to them.

The ironic thing is many of the jobcentre advisors will have to sanction each other.

Thats my initial thought too...How on earth would they manage to interview another million people or so a week...unless, of course it was outsourced to the likes of A4e....

Neither the Tories or Labour are worthy of the voters attention...

[winkie]

Thats my initial thought too...How on earth would they manage to interview another million people or so a week...unless, of course it was outsourced to the likes of A4e....

Neither the Tories or Labour are worthy of the voters attention...

.....what is the incentive of fixing anything in this day and age, when people knowingly get paid more for not fixing problems.....once the problem is fixed there is then no further work to do.....creating solutions means creating your own job loss.....

[cybernoid]

Yeah, boo! booo!!

Infinite money for everyone forever! Why don't they do that? How mean.

I don't even care to look into the details of this particular curb on distributing wealth from a person that earns to one that doesn't, the fact is it just can't go on the way it has been and unfortunately for many reality is on its way.

ps, a poor person is a rich person with less money.

[alexw]

Yeah, boo! booo!!

Infinite money for everyone forever! Why don't they do that? How mean.

I don't even care to look into the details of this particular curb on distributing wealth from a person that earns to one that doesn't, the fact is it just can't go on the way it has been and unfortunately for many reality is on its way.

ps, a poor person is a rich person with less money.

?????

But it's not curbing the distribution of wealth from the poor to the wealthy, it's exactly the opposite. It's an attempt to force the poor to work more (disregarding that there is no need for their labour), so that the wealthy can abstract more value.

Unless of course your trying to imply that somehow the money tokens that the poor are given as wages match the value of their labour. But then that flies in the face of all reality that wages are set not by value added but by the relative power of the groups involved. So of course it can't be that.

So I really really don't understand your comment at all. Please explain.

Edited September 7, 2013 by alexw

[cybernoid]

Unless of course your trying to imply that somehow the money tokens that the poor are given as wages match the value of their labour.

Id be interested to hear how you would define the value of labour in other terms. Actually no I wouldn't as I'd just get a load of ridiculous nonsense in response. But feel free, you amuse at least.

[Ulfar]

How long is going to be before voting is limited to those in work and owning land.

[alexw]

Id be interested to hear how you would define the value of labour in other terms. Actually no I wouldn't as I'd just get a load of ridiculous nonsense in response. But feel free, you amuse at least.

The only time wages match actual value created is under a full employment economy, because that is the only point in time when workers are able to capture the true amount that owners of capital are willing to concede. Any more than that and capital will believe it is not receiving enough return for it's own inputs and will stop providing capital. Thus this means this is what capital truly believes workers labour is worth relative to their own inputs. Capital will of course take more than this if it can, but this is the true worth they ascribe to labour.

The last time we had a full employment economy was about 40 years ago. Take the wages then and adjust for productivity. That's the true value of labour. On this basis my back of the fag packet calculations show that low end workers labour is actually worth about £12 per hour.

Edited September 7, 2013 by alexw

[Setantii]

I'm usually just a HPC lurker but had to respond to this thread.

How far do these t***s in Government think they can push people?

Having not had a pay rise for seven years and having a day's less work due to my employer still struggling to find enough work to keep us in jobs I scrape into this category. If they have the audacity to call me into a Job Centre to see if I'm 'working enough' I swear it's gonna get nasty.

[MarkG]

The last time we had a full employment economy was about 40 years ago.

Ah, the glorious 1973. The year of the Austin Allegro, Price and Pay Controls, 8+% inflation, the Three-Day Week, and the run-up to needing an IMF bailout a few years later.

[fluffy666]

Ah, the glorious 1973. The year of the Austin Allegro, Price and Pay Controls, 8+% inflation, the Three-Day Week, and the run-up to needing an IMF bailout a few years later.

Yet a man in a 'normal' factory job could buy a house, raise a family and (qualifications being good enough) send the kids to university on a single wage.