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SarahBell

Buy With A Stranger Now On Nnc3

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What a screwed up little country we live in, two people have to make a 25 year commitment as complete strangers just to buy a crappy little flat, and they willl still have to rent out a room to make the numbers stack up... the mortgage adviser will no doubt suggest dealing a little crack on the side to make ends meet.

"not buying now could be waiting another 10 years"

Now they've just fallen for the agents talk of somebody putting in an asking price offer, now they're bidding £2k more. This is sheer propoganda, what a disgusting predicament, certainly a condemnation of Blair's Britain.

Accepted at £134k and now in hoc with a complete stranger, nice, one of them looks doubtful!

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Absolutely amazing. If anyone missed this I suggest you scouer the TV schedules for a repeat.

Whatever you you NEVER entertain this.

Buying with a relative is stupid.

Buying with a friend is ridiculous.

Buying with a stranger is just retarded.

PLEASE, PLEASE God, let me lose all of my ethics. I could be a multi-multi-multi-millionaire within five years on the back of these idiots. And believe me there are many who don't have a strong ethical background who WILL make a fortune from this development in the market.

If you are desperate enough to go in for this and you can't see how easily you could be exploited, believe me, you MUST give this a wide birth, as you just don't have the mind to cover the angles.

Edited by Sledgehead

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I watched this too. It really saddened me.

It also surprised me. None of them earned more than £20000/year, and every time salary was mentioned, the narrator(Jane {professional Georgie} Middlemiss) commented "A good salary"!!!!!!

The most incredible statement was "Prices in Newcastle have doubled in the past 5 years, so if they hang onto this for a bit then they will both be able to buy a flat when they sell this one"!!!!!

What!!!! Assuming prices double again, how is that going to happen if singles can't afford to buy now, how will them selling this place make the next place more affordable.

I really think that when programmes like this are being aired, it really shows that the end game is upon us.

The one redeeming feature of that programme was, the ginger one looked like the fit blonde out of "Teachers".

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All helps in the Government's desire for greater "social integration"?

Just as car use is seen as "socially divisive" perhaps buying one's own house is now?

Next step your "buying partner" allocated by "social integration scoring"?

"kirsty, let me introduce Chardonay, your allocated buying partner".

Dear oh dear, it's bad enough buying along with a desired partner.

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Guest struthitsruth

Aside from the obvious financial pitfalls and social nightmares, here is something you MUST consider if you go in for this (and you SHOULD NOT).

The Stranger from Hell : believe me, you CAN'T judge character that reliably.

Jeez

I didn't see the programme, but I have read the tale told by Sledgehead. Amazing writing, I hope you find a publisher and get paid for it. Fantastic work of fiction, but so scarily probable if the idea of find-a-bod-and-get-a-mortgage takes off. I've already heard the buy-with-a-friend (or two/three friends) option brought up in conversation already, but the scenario above is the stuff of nightmares.

All the same, appreciations, Sledge !!

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Jeez

I didn't see the programme, but I have read the tale told by Sledgehead. Amazing writing, I hope you find a publisher and get paid for it. Fantastic work of fiction, but so scarily probable if the idea of find-a-bod-and-get-a-mortgage takes off. I've already heard the buy-with-a-friend (or two/three friends) option brought up in conversation already, but the scenario above is the stuff of nightmares.

All the same, appreciations, Sledge !!

I know I painted just about as bad a situ as one could imagine but the simple fact is if one was a minds to, one need not go half as far and STILL have the desired affect. The "Garri Holness approach" (charmer to psychotic rapist) was chosen to maximise profits in the minimum timeframe, but remember:

1 ) the girl featured in the prog (I will refer to her as featured_girl) ended up without a home to live in: she could not stand to live with the stranger (I will refer to her as stranger) and so let her room, essentially becoming a BTLer, most likely with letting rates that would not cover the mortgage. Yet all that happened was a small clash of personalites.

Now imagine what would happen if the stranger did not want a lodger (which she didn't) and decided to persuade any potential lodger not to move in / to move out at the earliest opportunity, depriving the featured_girl of rent needed to pay the mortgage.

Even in these circumstances, where the balance of power is in the opposite direction to that which I described in the nightmare scenario (stranger just a girl, featured_girl was richer and in the army (guns, knives, squaddy muscle to call on)), things could still have turned out very badly for the featured_girl.

2 ) And remember, it is ethical behaviour and money that determines the outcome in these circumstances. As a rich man I could wind up a woman so much that in the end she hated me enough to physically assault me. Now I could put a restraining order on her banning her from her own home. She would then have to rent, financially stressing her. I could then sue her, financially crippling her. I could then sneakily block attempts by her to sell her half. I could then let her half be sold in a the bankrupcy auction and trump any other bidder as her part of th eproperty now amounts to a falt with sitting tenant - very unpopular and no longer heard of.

So even without resorting to physical violence against a woman, which I hope most blokes could not manage, I could still get my own way pretty quickly.

3 ) Garri Holnesses do exist and you are incapable of distinguishing real nice from real monster.

4 ) Just think about the BMV crowd who actively seek out "distressed vendors." That crowd will offer a vendor 30% below market value when they are fully aware of buyers who would offer more (maybe 10 to 20%) there and then. Are these BMV sorts incapable of exploiting these situations?

5 ) If you wanna see a movie of what can go wrong when you share your house - even in this case with a lodger - see Pacific Heights. Its is fiction and the lodger is pretty psychotic, but it's no waste of 102 mins. Incidentally, it was released in 1990 - top of the last bubble. Maybe we need another warning from Hollywood!

Edited by Sledgehead

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I have to say it was the most amazing program I've seen for some time.

It was clear that there'd been pressure to go ahead with the deal - presumably against the main girl's family's opinion and that there'd been no discussion with any of them about dealing with issues. Bringing the part time agony aunt/house finder back to try and sort it out was amusing. She was clearly no good as either a property finder or a agony aunt.

"Its about relationships not the shower"

Well as the two girls hadn't got a relationship - and presumably the stranger will now have seen what the army girl said about her before buying, things will be even more tense.

The girl who pulled out did the sensible thing. Bringing a 3rd party in is nightmarish and complicates the whole thing even more.

The girl left in the flat wll hopefully find someone nice to share with and keep the flat on. She's been "lucky" if you like that the army girl is away - imagine if there wasn't that space between two very different girls - it'd be war all the time and utterly soul destroying.

There'd been no discussion about what they'd do if they decided to sell, or one decided to sell, or they fell out. Or what they'd do if they got boyfriends who wanted to move in.

I thought it was unfair of the girl with the bigger room to pay more - afterall she's going to be doing all the ongoing minor maintenance, organising bigger repairs, managing the lodger, etc

However the crap peddled in the program about if prices continue to rise they'll be able to sell up and move on was outrageous. Even if prices increase they'd only be able to buy half a flat still because everywhere else would have gone up too - and unless they've kept up with the general maintenance their flat could be harder to sell.

I was horrified that even with two incomes they could only afford a fairly pokey flat - it just shows how out of line prices are. This program is going to be shown to school children in the future as an example of the madness regarding house prices.

The idea of buying with a stranger makes great tv, if they'd got on well it'd not be as compelling to watch. I didn't think it was feel good tv at all though and that'll probably mean it'll only do one series (I'm assuming it was a series not a one off scary show)

If they'd said at the end that it was a spoof I wouldn't have been suprised.

The characters were very well done for classic fiction - a skint spendaholic borrowing a deposit off family - the headonright girl with a good deposit who decided it would be a nightmare and some fairly odd geezer who likes swords.

At least the show does show the pitfalls emotionally but should have dwelt on the financial pitfalls too.

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the thing about this crap is, each of them coulda bought there own less desireable place for there half of the mortgage, why didint they just do that instead ?

i thought thats what you were supposed to do start at the bottom of the heap.

20k is a good wage in the north no-matter what some try to tell you, maybe not good in the public sector anymore however but for the private sector most people would rip there arm off for this wage.Are only the public sector able to afford houses anymore?

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Absolutely amazing. If anyone missed this I suggest you scouer the TV schedules for a repeat.

Whatever you you NEVER entertain this.

Buying with a relative is stupid.

Buying with a friend is ridiculous.

Buying with a stranger is just retarded.

I bought with a relative.Why is this worse than buying with a sexual partner? When 1 in 2 marriages ends in divorce, what hope 4 relationships in the brave new world? At least with a relative its a bit more of a business decision.

£70,000 worth of equity and the rent covers the mortgage.

Thats not stupid where I come from.

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I bought with a relative.Why is this worse than buying with a sexual partner?

Well I would not advise buying with anyone on the multiples some are taking. In the good old days they used to only consider your wages. Why? ....

When 1 in 2 marriages ends in divorce, what hope 4 relationships in the brave new world?

At least with a relative its a bit more of a business decision.

:o

In what way?

£70,000 worth of equity and the rent covers the mortgage .

Thats not stupid where I come from.

Now we don't know whether you bought as an investment to let or to live in. Please say which to save me time.

Edited by Sledgehead

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I don't have digital so didn't see this - but surely this is one of the most irresponsible programs the BBC has aired if they didn't address the safety issues associated with buying a house with a stranger. It's bad enough renting with a group of strangers - but at least you can walk away if it gets wierd. I just can't believe the BBC would actually suggest doing this - I wonder if those who were on the show could sue the BBC if it all goes pear shaped?

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I don't have digital so didn't see this - but surely this is one of the most irresponsible programs the BBC has aired if they didn't address the safety issues associated with buying a house with a stranger. It's bad enough renting with a group of strangers - but at least you can walk away if it gets wierd. I just can't believe the BBC would actually suggest doing this - I wonder if those who were on the show could sue the BBC if it all goes pear shaped?

To be fair, had you have seen the prog I dare say you would not be intimating that the Beeb endorse this practice. The whole thing was a tale of woe to be frank. Whether it was disagreements over decor, size of deposits or who would get the biggest room, the clear message was one of two people willing to make a match in hell just to "get on the ladder", despite it being beyond their means.

They had blind faith the market would go up.

As you say the Beeb did not touvh on the safety aspects or what would happen when one wanted to sell.

Senior bulls on the site have long justified price rises on the basis of the Housing Act that effectively curtailed the rights of tenants and removed the obstacle of sitting tenants. Shared ownership reverses this process. You now own a property in which you effectively have a sitting tenant. But more than that, thi stenant has the sam eright sas you and can dictate decor, modifications and anything else to do with the house. Trying to sell half of such a property is a COMPLETE NO NO. What these silly girls could not comprehend in their rush to become propertied, was that the moment they shared ownership of the house they dramatically reduced its value, firstly by effectively repealling the Housing Act, and secondly by making their halves effectively unsellable. As for getting a mortgage on a half a house.... the mind boggles.....

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Well I would not advise buying with anyone on the multiples some are taking. In the good old days they used to only consider your wages. Why? ....

:o

In what way?

Now we don't know whether you bought as an investment to let or to live in. Please say which to save me time.

I rent and my sister rents, we don't live together but we bought a property together to rent out.

It was a ballache at the start but now it just runs itself.

I would recommend this because you can usually trust your family more than some golddigga.

of course it is better to buy on ure own but I couldnt afford to do so at that time.

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I rent and my sister rents, we don't live together but we bought a property together to rent out.

It was a ballache at the start but now it just runs itself.

I would recommend this because you can usually trust your family more than some golddigga.

of course it is better to buy on ure own but I couldnt afford to do so at that time.

Okay, so let's assume then that neither you nor your sisters will ever need the money (big assumption) as it will not be easy to sell your part on its own (sorry, mean nigh on impossible).

Presumably you will be happy to rent (that part ownership tho will look increasingly attractive as a deposit when the right girl comes along... oh deary me... or your sister(s) find anice bloke to settle down with....)

So when did you buy this house, sorry, I meant to say "wonderful investment" - the same wonderful investment that is offering zero yield (like you said, mortgage = rents)?

Edited by Sledgehead

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Okay, so let's assume then that neither you nor your sisters will ever need the money (big assumption) as it will not be easy to sell your part on its own (sorry, mean nigh on impossible).

Presumably you will be happy to rent (that part ownership tho will look increasingly attractive as a deposit when the right girl comes along... oh deary me... or your sister(s) find anice bloke to settle down with....)

So when did you buy this house, sorry, I meant to say "wonderful investment" - the same wonderful investment that is offering zero yield (like you said, mortgage = rents)?

Zero yield eh!

Seems like you have a very different definition of rental yield to the rest of the world.

I have the mortgage in my name only so I decide when its sold.

When I sell I have to give 50 % of the deposit plus the profit to her.

Shes happy with that and so am I.

If she wants out,i would sell or buy her out.

Bought in jan 2002.

It was a "wonderful investment" having increased in value by 50% in 4 years.

That wasn't skill though just good luck.

B)

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Zero yield eh!

Seems like you have a very different definition of rental yield to the rest of the world.

For your information I said : "the same wonderful investment that is offering zero yield (like you said, mortgage = rents)?"

ie your investment is offering zero yield. That is the definition th erest of the world uses. Just because you and all the other BTLers can only focus on net rental yield. ie renatl yield less voids, doesn't mean it makes sense. If your return less costs = zero, that is a zero yield. Sorry mate. Without capital appreciateion (in your words, "luck") you would have been better off putting the money in the bank. You also imply that rents don't cover fees or maintenance, something a lot of LLs seem to conveniently forget.

{actually realised I might have been a little harsh here as the mortgage was probably repayment, nevertheless, fees and maintenance could still destroy any residual yield...}

I have the mortgage in my name only so I decide when its sold.

When I sell I have to give 50 % of the deposit plus the profit to her.

Shes happy with that and so am I.

If she wants out,i would sell or buy her out.

Right, so all I need are relatives either as easy going or stupid as your sister and I too could have capitalised on this wonderful investment opportunity.

Perhaps I should remind you about the real world, where, after parents die, siblings quarrel over how the family home should best be disposed of. My Mother's awkward brother held out for better prices for three years post 1990, wasting money on renovations. She lost out big time. Unfortunately her brother had power of attorney. Seems like your sister has basically granted you the sam erights. Let's hope she doesn't live to regret it.

Unlike marriages where people have a choice of patner, you are unable to choose siblings and, more to the point, you are unable to choose their partners. I suspect the problems for you will occur when she gets a partner who has a mind of his own and starts to question why you have all the power in this agreement but only half the capital.

Bought in jan 2002.

It was a "wonderful investment" having increased in value by 50% in 4 years.

That wasn't skill though just good luck.

B)

Nice history lesson. What am I supposed to do with it?

Edited by Sledgehead

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I've posted this story before, but it is a true story, that happened not with strangers (and I take the point particularly about charming psycopaths) but with friend. It happened just before the last crash.

2 women known to one of my best mates, bought a flat in Finsbury Park. They then proceeded to a big falling out over a guy. Chickie no 1 liked him, invited him to a party... he liked her friend, invited her on a picnic... and nature took its course. Except that chickie no. 1 was so p*ssed about the whole situation, that when the two lovebirds wanted to make a nest she wouldn't sell her half to the new partner at any price. So it went on the market, and the market was falling, and the flat was not selling, and time was passing, and finally... both chickie 1 and chickie 2 lost a lot of money. A year and a half previously the partner would have paid her in profit.

Its just insane to think that people who don't have a long term commitment to each other should be making long term commitments to live together and that this is the way to run the socio-economy, not friends, far less strangers.

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For your information I said : "the same wonderful investment that is offering zero yield (like you said, mortgage = rents)?"

Right, so all I need are relatives either as easy going or stupid as your sister and I too could have capitalised on this wonderful investment opportunity.

Maybe you could try being nicer and then more people would trust you.

Perhaps I should remind you about the real world, where, after parents die, siblings quarrel over how the family home should best be disposed of. My Mother's awkward brother held out for better prices for three years post 1990, wasting money on renovations. She lost out big time. Unfortunately her brother had power of attorney. Seems like your sister has basically granted you the sam erights. Let's hope she doesn't live to regret it.

Hmm, don't think i want to live in your real world where you call trust stupidity, rull of rapists and siblings who screw each other over for money.

Unlike marriages where people have a choice of patner, you are unable to choose siblings and, more to the point, you are unable to choose their partners. I suspect the problems for you will occur when she gets a partner who has a mind of his own and starts to question why you have all the power in this agreement but only half the capital.

Nice history lesson. What am I supposed to do with it?

Hey, you did ask when it was bought, then you get p@ssed off when I tell you.

Guess you drink bitter.

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Zero yield eh!

Seems like you have a very different definition of rental yield to the rest of the world.

I have the mortgage in my name only so I decide when its sold.

When I sell I have to give 50 % of the deposit plus the profit to her.

Shes happy with that and so am I.

If she wants out,i would sell or buy her out.

Bought in jan 2002.

It was a "wonderful investment" having increased in value by 50% in 4 years.

That wasn't skill though just good luck.

B)

Well, bitter or not I live in the real world.

You say the deeds are in your name so you choose when to sell. I think if she met a bloke with a mind of his own you might find his solicitor takes a very different view. Also at that time you might already have a large mortgage so you won't necessarily be able to buy her out.

What if you marry somebody and then get divorced. They will want half of your half. Alternatively they may decide to play the long game and refuse to sell. Then you will effectively be forced to sell it to this embittered ex-partner - at a knock-down price.

You really haven't thought this through have you?

PS: will you please make sure your formatting is working, especially the quotes, as it is preventing me from replying.

Edited by Sledgehead

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Guest magnoliawalls

Here is another anecdote that shows why it is better to buy individually or with a partner:

I used to share a rented house with two female friends. The arrangement worked very well for nearly two years and we had an excellent relationship. Then one of the girls fell for a creep who quickly moved in without any discussion.

This guy was a really nasty piece of work, but had his girlfriend entirely under his control, as though he had hypnotised her. They left a trail of mess and junk in the house, had wild parties and generally lived like chavs developing serious drug problems. One night one of the guy's mates went into the other girl's bedroom got into her bed and refused to leave and prevented her from leaving until he fell asleep towards morning. He was too out of it to rape her but she was understandably very upset.

After that we made it clear that the creep and his friends were no longer welcome in our house - but his girlfriend kept sneaking him in. We had no choice but to have her evicted. The whole thing caused a great deal of stress and grief. If we had been joint owners of the house, eviction would have been impossible. And that happened with three like-minded friends. It could just as easily happen with siblings and is probably more likely still to happen with strangers - imagine in a situation like that if there were only two of you with equal rights over the property.

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One night one of the guy's mates went into the other girl's bedroom got into her bed and refused to leave and prevented her from leaving until he fell asleep towards morning. He was too out of it to rape her but she was understandably very upset.

Once many years ago had that problem in a shared house (p1ssed guy at a party goes into my room, gets in my bed and refuses to leave). There is a really simple solution. "Get the f*ck out of my room... now ... or I am calling the cops". Blank disbelieving look on said p1ssed guys face? "NOW". (and stay by the door but never ever look like your ready to bolt :lol: ). Sometime girls just need to be harder.

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Once many years ago had that problem in a shared house (p1ssed guy at a party goes into my room, gets in my bed and refuses to leave). There is a really simple solution. "Get the f*ck out of my room... now ... or I am calling the cops". Blank disbelieving look on said p1ssed guys face? "NOW". (and stay by the door but never ever look like your ready to bolt :lol: ). Sometime girls just need to be harder.

Or how about a lock on your door?

Or how about picking some normal people to live with?

I have no horror stories after 12 years of renting with lots of different people not all of whom I knew before hand. Didn't even have anything nicked. Some I'm still in touch with.

But this isn't a very sexy story, so keep the fear alive.Its a jungle out there!!!

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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