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Nuremberg Rallies To Repair Crumbling Nazi Heritage Site

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nuremberg-rallies-to-repair-crumbling-nazi-heritage-site-8793525.html

Officials in the German city of Nuremberg have announced controversial plans to spend up to €70m (£60m) on renovating the city’s vast yet dilapidated Nazi Party rally grounds, used by the documentary filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl as a haunting backdrop for her Hitler propaganda film Triumph of the Will.

The 11 sq km site, which includes 24 towers and a so-called “Zeppelin Tribune” from which the Nazi leader gazed out on to the uniformed ranks of the party faithful, was designed in part by Albert Speer, the Nazi minister who was also Hitler’s chief architect. It was never completed.

So should it just be demolished or repaired?

Considering the association with the area it's a difficult question.

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So should it just be demolished or repaired?

Considering the association with the area it's a difficult question.

Like the rest of that era's Nazi iconography, it should be razed to the ground. There is film enough of the rallies to provide sufficient documentary evidence for posterity.

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Like the rest of that era's Nazi iconography, it should be razed to the ground.

Then the Holocaust deniers will start claiming the Nazis never existed.

There is film enough of the rallies to provide sufficient documentary evidence for posterity.

They'll claim it was faked in Nevada, I imagine.

To be honest, I'd never realized that the Nuremberg grounds still existed in anything resembling a usable state; I'd assumed it would have been destroyed in the war and built over long ago, as much of Berlin was.

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Artlcie claims this is one of the largest tourist visitor attractions in Germany.

The mayor is also at odds to point out that renovation is not in the interests of politics or of reviving some long dead ideals but renovating a site which has a notorious place in history.

Parts of Auschwitz have been turned into a holocaust museum, there are large memorials on the burial mounds at Bergan Belson in the British sector, these also draw large numbers of visitors.

Whilst the intent was clearly something different, I see not problem. The nazi's have a place in history and people will be naturally curious. If the site generates revenue and therefore jobs then let it stay.

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Like the rest of that era's Nazi iconography, it should be razed to the ground. There is film enough of the rallies to provide sufficient documentary evidence for posterity.

That may not be so easy, they tried with Heligoland and failed, much of the Nazi concrete probably will still be around in 1000 years :(

"On 18 April 1947, the Royal Navy detonated 6,700 tonnes of explosives ("Big Bang" or "British Bang"), creating one of the biggest single non-nuclear detonations in history.[21] While aiming at the fortifications, the island's total destruction would have been accepted.[22] The blow shook the main island several miles down to its base, changing its shape (the Mittelland was created)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heligoland#Explosion

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Like the rest of that era's Nazi iconography, it should be razed to the ground. There is film enough of the rallies to provide sufficient documentary evidence for posterity.

Thats going to mean blowing up quite few bits of Berlin like the old Ministry of Aviation Building , the now closed TempleHof airport or the Olympic stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detlev-Rohwedder-Haus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Tempelhof_Airport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Stadium_%28Berlin%29

I found the Topography of Terror tour in Berlin quite an eye opener particularly with regard to how the old Gestapo cells and Sachsenhausen concentration camp moved almost overnight in 1945 from processing the political enemies of the Nazis to performing almost the same role for the new Communist regime.

I did not see much sign that either regime was being glorified at any of the sites I visited in Berlin

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If we must demolish Nazi (or Soviet) era stuff, what about the tons upon tons of other massive egotistical monuments erected by other very bad historical figures, like the Roman Catholic Church, King Leopold the 2nd, and the British Empire, etc?

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Wales has more castles than any other country on the planet apparently - virtually all of them were built to occupy and control Wales. At many of them appalling things were done to the local population with, in some cases, hundreds and even thousands of people being brutally killed.

Today Government money is spent on keeping many of the castles from falling down. They are tourists attractions. Perhaps it is a question of time?

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That may not be so easy, they tried with Heligoland and failed, much of the Nazi concrete probably will still be around in 1000 years :(

"On 18 April 1947, the Royal Navy detonated 6,700 tonnes of explosives ("Big Bang" or "British Bang"), creating one of the biggest single non-nuclear detonations in history.[21] While aiming at the fortifications, the island's total destruction would have been accepted.[22] The blow shook the main island several miles down to its base, changing its shape (the Mittelland was created)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heligoland#Explosion

They tried to do the same with the massive flak towers in Berlin at the end of the war with only partial success.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=flak+towers+in+Berlin

You can still visit their remains and the air raid shelters and hospitals inside them

I am afraid I am against leveling all the old Nazi monuments because in a strange way things like the flak towers that shot at allied bombers in World War 2 are part of our history as well as that of the Germans.

I do concede though that the Nuremberg arena is slightly different because it was explicitly built for no other purpose than to promote Nazi ideology

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nuremberg-rallies-to-repair-crumbling-nazi-heritage-site-8793525.html

So should it just be demolished or repaired?

Considering the association with the area it's a difficult question.

it's up to the people who live there.

much of the historic architecture of all european cities was built from the proceeds of crimes as bad or worse.

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Yeah, just let it quietly fall into ruin.

I could say something about Germany's Federal Ministry of Finance having their headquarters in the old Reich Air Ministry building, but that would be too easy.

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I wonder if there is any urge to do a John Cleese silly Nazi walk upon visiting the place?

Back in the 80s or 90s I recall one of the travel progs sending some celeb to visit the Berghof Garden, near Berchtesgaden. It was disturbing just how many men with Hitler moustaches were to be seen in the area - especially the ones in the leather shorts and tyrrel style hats.

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it's up to the people who live there.

much of the historic architecture of all european cities was built from the proceeds of crimes as bad or worse.

In quite few bits of Europe the 'historic' centres of towns are in fact replicas that have been rebuilt in their entirety from old plans after the originals got flattened in one or other of the two World Wars ( I believe some Belgian towns had to go through the process twice)

I do think many people today have forgotten quite how utter was the devastation inflicted by those conflicts

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282108/World-War-One-wasteland-Haunting-rare-images-apocalyptic-destruction-Western-Front.html

In Bochum in the Ruhr at the end of World War 2 out of 90,000 homes only 1000 had avoided any damage and only 25,000 were in any way usable. The rest was rubble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochum

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In quite few bits of Europe the 'historic' centres of towns are in fact replicas that have been rebuilt in their entirety from old plans after the originals got flattened in one or other of the two World Wars ( I believe some Belgian towns had to go through the process twice)

I do think many people today have forgotten quite how utter was the devastation inflicted by those conflicts

Hamburg and Warsaw come to mind and, like you say, the Belgian towns.

Meanwhile in Britain, in the 50s and 60s developers finished off what the Luftwaffe started.

And if Europe started tearing down all its fascist architecture Italy would grind to a standstill.

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Meanwhile in Britain, in the 50s and 60s developers finished off what the Luftwaffe started.

The destruction inflicted on British towns and cities seemed to be comparatively lighter next to mainland European cities anyway and a lot of the 1960s concrete monstrosities have become heritage sites. Plans for rebuilding Bristol's Dutch House remain in limbo.

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I don't agree with picking and choosing what places to 'remove' or not.

It seems time changes something from an atrocity to an interesting historical event.

If this was from a few hundred years ago people would be up in arms about something like this being demolished.

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After the war the skeleton of Mussolini's new fascist capital 'EUR' was, complete with its bonkers cubic colosseum, left sitting half-started just outside of Rome...

w2muk3.jpg

The Italians filled in the gaps and finished it.

The are plenty of fragments of fascist statues, art and inscriptions all over the place.

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I don't agree with picking and choosing what places to 'remove' or not.

It seems time changes something from an atrocity to an interesting historical event.

If this was from a few hundred years ago people would be up in arms about something like this being demolished.

i agree. imo, It will take at least another century to put the 21st C. World Wars into proper historical perspective.

While the "winners" are still running things, the "history" they give us will be entirely self-serving.

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i agree. imo, It will take at least another century to put the 21st C. World Wars into proper historical perspective.

While the "winners" are still running things, the "history" they give us will be entirely self-serving.

It all makes me wonder how much of ancient 'history' is just made up or totally different from what actually happened ?

I reckon a huge amount of it must be ********.

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It all makes me wonder how much of ancient 'history' is just made up or totally different from what actually happened ?

I reckon a huge amount of it must be ********.

According to Napoleon 'What is history but a fable agreed upon?'

Henry Ford reckoned it was bunk.

According to a Russian called Anatoly Fomenko, recorded civilisation only goes back to 800AD, most historical events really took place between 1000AD and 1500AD and it's all been padded out afterwards. He's nothing if not ambitious.

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According to Napoleon 'What is history but a fable agreed upon?'

Henry Ford reckoned it was bunk.

According to a Russian called Anatoly Fomenko, recorded civilisation only goes back to 800AD, most historical events really took place between 1000AD and 1500AD and it's all been padded out afterwards. He's nothing if not ambitious.

I like that Napoleon quote.

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