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Bbc Still Spouting Lazy Brit Fallacy


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I skipped from a foreign land owing a large amount to their medical profession, I figured they'd had enough money out of me already (the fact that they gave me the thing that damn near killed me might have motivated me a little).

If I'd had more notice that my visa wasn't going to be renewed I'd have paid them even less and probably stopped paying the mortgage a lot earlier ( I didn't pay the last month I was there).

I left no forwarding address.

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The above has nothing to do with nationality. Its all to do with whether people are wanting to live 'legally' or not.

Nothing stopping British doing the same.

Yes there is. Try buying a couple of acres of Land and put ten caravans on it, fill it with local workers and see if they eventually get chucked into jail or not.

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...the lazy foreigners without drive, tenacity, and persistence tend to stay in their own countries....thus the reason why many also leave our shores looking for new better hopeful horizons.

This is a good point. The sample is biased. Comparing economic immigrant labour to native labour is not comparing like for like.

Foreign immigrants should be compared to British emigrants.

British labour in Britain should be compared to Polish labour in Poland.

I would say yes, there may be some difference in attitude in Britain to work and so on due to difference in welfare systems and the silly culture of the last decade, but if you want to know the true extent then at least do fair comparisons. Comparing a sample of immigrants from one country to the entire population of another is intellectually flawed.

Edited by Britney's Piers
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Yes there is. Try buying a couple of acres of Land and put ten caravans on it, fill it with local workers and see if they eventually get chucked into jail or not.

British people do this abroad as well. See above for a pertinent example.

And no i am not saying this makes it right. But the whole - aren't we so hard done by from immigration- argument is rather one sided.

People come here and take the piss because they can. People from here do the same abroad.

The difference is in the numbers - that's about it. (and yes it is a very important difference)

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I was a prison officer in 2008 helping oversee the building of a new houseblock. The construction company had fifty polish labourers on the job and I escorted them around for six months. For the whole of that time they were working seven day weeks, ten hours a day for about £2000 a month after deductions.

Was it because they are altruistic and wanted to work hard to repay britain for our assistance in WW2? Perhaps they are just machines with a superior work ethic? I got on pretty well with them so I decided to ask them. To a man they said they were here to earn as much money as possible because when they got back home they'd have a kings ransom. They were living (if it can be called that) in a warehouse at the construction companies storage depot. They didn't eat out, go to pubs or engage in anything recognised as a social life. The company provided meals and there was a free gym on site. That was their life for six months. They told me most of their countrymen lived as frugally as possible for 6 months to a year before returning home. The idea that much if any money is being spent here by Eastern Europeans is frankly naive and laughable.

I asked the site manager why he'd hired poles instead of natives and, after he'd stopped laughing, he said not only would he have had to have paid brits far more, the chances of them agreeing to give up their lives for 6 months were nil.

I don't blame the poles, I blame the politicians who allow this to happen.

Good post Frost, thanks for joining to share this. Your anecdote conveys my feelings when watching last nights The One Show most excellently.

edit: maybe you should replace the guest presenter

Edited by pl1
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British people do this abroad as well. See above for a pertinent example.

And no i am not saying this makes it right. But the whole - aren't we so hard done by from immigration- argument is rather one sided.

People come here and take the piss because they can. People from here do the same abroad.

The difference is in the numbers - that's about it. (and yes it is a very important difference)

may well be the case, but as you say on a different number scale. difference is our benefits system is one of the most generous worldwide and the payouts are going up up and away.

as long as the financial sector can hold it all together for us....

incidently I'd be happy to work for £30-£50 an hour manual labour in the EU, any ideas on best places to try for. I'd give it a go for a year or two.

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There is another factor on "drive" with overseas people looking for work and that is their age.

On average (not always but on average) it tends to be the younger people with the drive to up sticks to move to another country (given sufficient economic cause to do so) so they tend to compete against the younger people in the country they move to.

If it's a mass movement of people to a country like the UK already suffering from (effective) mass unemployment then the problems start to get obvious except perhaps to a government facilitating it all.

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Makes sense, they can go home and buy a house with a year's UK income. We have to slave a lifetime to pay for a house. If I could afford a house with a years income, I'd clean the sewers with a friggin toothbrush.

Another reason why I don't pay the tv licence, its not worth the paper its written on.

Excellent post. B)

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http://www.migration...-archive/2013-2

Sure, there you go about half-way down. 8 times UK minimum wage is probably 50 quid an hour?

The comparison is about as broken as can be. At £50 quid an hour you would be very well off in Eastern Europe. OTOH, at NMW in London you get to live like a beggar, except you also have to spend 9 hours at work and another 2+ commuting.

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The idea that much if any money is being spent here by Eastern Europeans is frankly naive and laughable.

And what do you think they do with their money? Use it as wallpaper?

They'll just sell their Sterling to someone else who wants to spend it in the UK, seeing as it can't be spent anywhere else.

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may well be the case, but as you say on a different number scale. difference is our benefits system is one of the most generous worldwide and the payouts are going up up and away.

as long as the financial sector can hold it all together for us....

incidently I'd be happy to work for £30-£50 an hour manual labour in the EU, any ideas on best places to try for. I'd give it a go for a year or two.

Anywhere in the UK oil and gas industry. Only issue is getting your foot in the door - which is apparently pretty tricky.

I agree our benefits system is a joke. However what exactly has that got to do with posh blokes working loads of hours here for 6 months and choosing to have no life to save money got to do with that ? Two separate issues.

I still can't believe how many still think they come here - save for a year - then go back home to buy a house outright. Its nonsense - unless they want a hut in the middle of nowhere in Poland.

I am sure there are similar choices for those in the UK if they want to work hard, save every penny and buy a tiny shithole in some deadzone in Wales or north England.

Who would want to though ?

I am just pointing out after a year working in a factory in the UK you ain't going home to buy a flat outright in Warsaw for cash . That's simply not true. Not even close. Even though clearly lots for some reason think it is.

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I am just pointing out after a year working in a factory in the UK you ain't going home to buy a flat outright in Warsaw for cash . That's simply not true. Not even close. Even though clearly lots for some reason think it is.

You are missing the point that Polish etc see it as a temporary solution only and happy to rough it. Whereas for a Brit it would be a permanent life of misery/slavery.

Stand outside Victoria Coach station in a morning and you'll see a load of disillusioned East EU migrant labour going home. whilst a fresh lot of mugs come in. EU equals a huge pool of cheap slave labour for employers. Absolutely fat chance of ever getting out of it. whatever Ed Cameron or Dave Miliband say.

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You are missing the point that Polish etc see it as a temporary solution only and happy to rough it. Whereas for a Brit it would be a permanent life of misery/slavery.

Stand outside Victoria Coach station in a morning and you'll see a load of disillusioned East EU migrant labour going home. whilst a fresh lot of mugs come in. EU equals a huge pool of cheap slave labour for employers. Absolutely fat chance of ever getting out of it. whatever Ed Cameron or Dave Miliband say.

...a few of them have got out of it, they now employ their fellow eastern Europeans, paying low wages and putting them up in temporary cramped accommodation doing work in the UK while the cheap contract lasts...easy come, cheap labour, easy to let go.......it is not just the Brits that gain from cheap labour from people that are desperate for work, any work they also treat their own people the same way given the opportunity to do so. ;)

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Anywhere in the UK oil and gas industry. Only issue is getting your foot in the door - which is apparently pretty tricky.

I agree our benefits system is a joke. However what exactly has that got to do with posh blokes working loads of hours here for 6 months and choosing to have no life to save money got to do with that ? Two separate issues.

I still can't believe how many still think they come here - save for a year - then go back home to buy a house outright. Its nonsense - unless they want a hut in the middle of nowhere in Poland.

I am sure there are similar choices for those in the UK if they want to work hard, save every penny and buy a tiny shithole in some deadzone in Wales or north England.

Who would want to though ?

I am just pointing out after a year working in a factory in the UK you ain't going home to buy a flat outright in Warsaw for cash . That's simply not true. Not even close. Even though clearly lots for some reason think it is.

Yes, because everyone in Poland lives in Warsaw.............

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There is another factor on "drive" with overseas people looking for work and that is their age.

On average (not always but on average) it tends to be the younger people with the drive to up sticks to move to another country (given sufficient economic cause to do so) so they tend to compete against the younger people in the country they move to.

If it's a mass movement of people to a country like the UK already suffering from (effective) mass unemployment then the problems start to get obvious except perhaps to a government facilitating it all.

Yes young people often have nothing to lose and are often up for an adventure somewhere foreign and exotic.

However, personally I don't see this as drive, that these people are driven, which implies to me that they are hungry for success and will do whatever it takes to be the next Richard Branson, quite unlike lazy Brits of course.

A lot of these youngsters will have come from Poland or maybe Portugal or Spain. They will not have had to trek across frozen wastelands, swim across dangerous rivers and cross treacherous mountain ranges whilst having to fight off orcs and goblins and the occasional dragon.

Really, how much drive does it take for a youngster to come to Britain from some other part of modern Europe?

As someone who was once a youngster who worked abroad and knew quite a few other young Brits doing menial, crappy and sometimes illegal work, drive and all that may imply has got sod all to do with it. Try fun and adventure instead.

Also, the fact that we speak English here which nearly all of them will have learnt at school will have a lot to do with it.

Driven - b*ll*cks!

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Yes, because everyone in Poland lives in Warsaw.............

What's your point ?

There are many places in the UK you can buy a place for very little. Just like in most other European country. That was my point. I don't see what your reply is meant to add to this . . .

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You are missing the point that Polish etc see it as a temporary solution only and happy to rough it. Whereas for a Brit it would be a permanent life of misery/slavery.

Stand outside Victoria Coach station in a morning and you'll see a load of disillusioned East EU migrant labour going home. whilst a fresh lot of mugs come in. EU equals a huge pool of cheap slave labour for employers. Absolutely fat chance of ever getting out of it. whatever Ed Cameron or Dave Miliband say.

Really ? You clearly don't quite understand just how many young British go abroad and do exactly the same in places like oz or NZ every single year.

And if they wanted to do what the example of the polish living and working in a factory and having no life for 2-3 years - and then get a wee place in some non descript northern town for £30k at an auction paying cash with their savings of 3 years working non stop and having no life ? Its there for them to take it if they want.

Just like it is for any pole coming over here and doing the same.

The sort of arguments seen on this thread just distract from the real issues of unbridled immigration.

Going on and on about poles working here for a year to then go home to buy a house in cash is quite frankly ridiculous.

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Anywhere in the UK oil and gas industry. Only issue is getting your foot in the door - which is apparently pretty tricky.

I should of put "unskilled" between the manual labour. Talking like, picking fruit and veg, stacking / unstacking boxes, driving a vehicle about, being a security guard, being a labourer knocking up mix, moving stuff about sort of things.

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Ridiculous piece by Andy Kershaw (I think it's him), you need to check it out on BBC iPlayer when it's up if you missed it and play spot the cliché. At first I thought it was an unbiased piece on the effects of mass immigration and not towing the usual party line of "improving diversity" but then midway through he couldn't help himself and said such classics as "they're just taking our jobs" & "Eastern Europeans do the jobs British people won't".

What he singly failed to mention (of course) was Purchasing Power Parity. I find it staggering to believe that people still think Eastern European immigrants work longer hours in the UK (read as "harder" on this piece) because of some inbuilt altruism. As if they are in the UK and work these ridiculous hours, doing awful jobs, out of some inbred work-ethic. The truth of courrse is much more simple and primal. They are here because they can earn 4-5 times what they could in their home country. I've used the phrase before that they have hit The Mother Lode and indeed they have. The equivalent would be an unskilled British person going to Eastern Europe and earning £45 an hour for working in a fast food shop. Not once was this bare fact mentioned. Also, the fact that 3 million people were allowed into the UK in less than eight years but 3 million extra homes weren't built to house them thus pushing up rents was of course not mentioned at all.

The truth of free movement of labour between countries with vastly disparate GDP's is that the labour gravitates towards the country paying the highest relative wage. It was never going to result in anything else.

Another fallacy the BBC spout about the UK and Europe, to put down the Brits, is the so called "cafe culture" where Europeans don't get drunk and cause trouble like the Brits. What a load of nonsense! There are plenty of European youngsters who get drunk and smash up the place at night and the ingrained drink drive culture in Europe.

Also when it comes to immigration the BBC will always attack the Polish, they won't go near the the so called Religion of Peace with its cruel Halal slaughter of animals in the UK (cutting animal throats whilst still fully conscious), the Sharia law courts operating in the UK were a woman's testimony is only worth half that of a man's, the Muslim only/Sharia law zones, female genital mutilation, the Pakistani Muslim grooming/sex slave gangs, which the BBC refer to as Asians, which is an insult to Hindus, Seikhs, Chinese and Japanese etc. who are not involved in this widespread crime.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!
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What's your point ?

There are many places in the UK you can buy a place for very little. Just like in most other European country. That was my point. I don't see what your reply is meant to add to this . . .

Lets cut to the chase. Does 20k sterling go further in Poland or Uk? Does Poland have cheaper houses than uk? Yes or no to both please.

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Also when it comes to immigration the BBC will always attack the Polish, they won't go near the the so called Religion of Peace with its cruel Halal slaughter of animals in the UK (cutting animal throats whilst still fully conscious), the Sharia law courts operating in the UK were a woman's testimony is only worth half that of a man's, the Muslim only/Sharia law zones, female genital mutilation, the Pakistani Muslim grooming/sex slave gangs, which the BBC refer to as Asians, which is an insult to Hindus, Seikhs, Chinese and Japanese etc. who are not involved in this widespread crime.

People from the religion of peace are doing the jobs lazy indigenous Brits won't do:

The British government has launched a probe after the revelation that some British Muslims of Pakistani origin have joined extremist groups in Syria to overthrow the regime of President Bashar al Assad.

British journalist John Cantlie and Jeroen Oerlemans, who were captured and held for a week at an extremist training camp in northwestern Syria, revealed the extremists were British with "Birmingham and South London accents", reports the Daily Times.

Cantlie said the militants who detained them included several radical Muslims from Britain who were intent on overthrowing the regime of President Assad.

"Shot in the arm, smashed feet after a botched escape attempt, but safe and sound. Before we were rescued, 30 percent of the extremists who held us were British," Cantlie was quoted, as saying.

Oerlemans said that their captors were militants from Britain, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Chechnya. He said some of the group, described as between 30 and 100 strong, had "Birmingham accents".

Oerlemans said they spoke of being under the leadership of an unidentified "amir".

"They were definitely quite extreme in their religious beliefs. All day we were spoken to about the holy Quran and how they would bring sharia law to Syria. I don't think they were Al-Qaeda, they seemed too amateurish for that," Oerlemans said.

;)

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Anywhere in the UK oil and gas industry. Only issue is getting your foot in the door - which is apparently pretty tricky.

I agree our benefits system is a joke. However what exactly has that got to do with posh blokes working loads of hours here for 6 months and choosing to have no life to save money got to do with that ? Two separate issues.

I still can't believe how many still think they come here - save for a year - then go back home to buy a house outright. Its nonsense - unless they want a hut in the middle of nowhere in Poland.

I am sure there are similar choices for those in the UK if they want to work hard, save every penny and buy a tiny shithole in some deadzone in Wales or north England.

Who would want to though ?

I am just pointing out after a year working in a factory in the UK you ain't going home to buy a flat outright in Warsaw for cash . That's simply not true. Not even close. Even though clearly lots for some reason think it is.

No it'll take about 3 years to buy a house outright in 90% of the country (poland). So how does that make the discrepancy with the UK any better?

Edited by alexw
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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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