SleepyHead Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Jamie Oliver Says British Workers 'Whinge'Jamie Oliver courts controversy by saying that European immigrants are "tougher" than British workers who whinge about long hours. Read more Pay linked to housing costs would motivate them Mr Oliver! Why don't you try that? . Edited August 28, 2013 by DogTired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Employer in wanting workers to uncomplainingly put in hundred hour weeks for low pay shocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkers Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wonder when he actually did the interview, awfully bad timing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Employer in wanting workers to uncomplainingly put in hundred hour weeks for low pay shocker. +1 Nail, Head, Hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 So what he is basically saying is that he can't afford to pay a living wage.. Even though his restaurants are not cheap.. I'm going to make a wild guess that the elephant in the room is a huge commercial rent for the restaurant linked to property prices.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 So what he is basically saying is that he can't afford to pay a living wage.. Even though his restaurants are not cheap.. I'm going to make a wild guess that the elephant in the room is a huge commercial rent for the restaurant linked to property prices.. He didnt become a millionaire by paying other people money! What he seems to be saying is Easterners are bigger mugs than brits, who will happily live in squalid conditions and shanty towns in back gardens because i guess such conditions are slightly better here than the eastern bloc. Not a very good indictment of 21st century Britain, is it. "Better than the ex-soviet alternative!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 So what he is basically saying is that he can't afford to pay a living wage.. Even though his restaurants are not cheap.. I'm going to make a wild guess that the elephant in the room is a huge commercial rent for the restaurant linked to property prices.. +1 Spot on. Just imagine if they hadn't had access to millions of cheap workers from the EU and elsewhere, Jamie Oliver would've had to offer more pay to entice a British worker into the job. That wage inflation would've fed into the inflation figures, and put pressure on the BofE to raise interest rates. Thus choking off the surge in house prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dothemaths Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) He didnt become a millionaire by paying other people money! What he seems to be saying is Easterners are bigger mugs than brits, who will happily live in squalid conditions and shanty towns in back gardens because i guess such conditions are slightly better here than the eastern bloc. Not a very good indictment of 21st century Britain, is it. "Better than the ex-soviet alternative!" Not even nearly correct. He was also comparing them to himself in his 20s. Edited August 28, 2013 by dothemaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Not even nearly correct. He was comparing them to himself in his 20s. Which is work 100 hours a week with no time off and you'll become a millionaire. Yeah, great ethos. Most i think would rather a balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Which is work 100 hours a week with no time off and you'll become a millionaire. Yeah, great ethos. Most i think would rather a balance. Also, I wonder how many of his contemporaries who worked 100 hours a week are millionaires now. None, at a guess. Just because one chef becomes a millionaire, just because one burger flipper becomes a manager, doesn't mean they all will. Most, if they stay in catering, will spend their entire lives working crap hours at crap jobs for crap money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) He's undoubted worked bloody hard, but he had a fair few advantages others didn't. Such as not having to pay rent in London (because your parents have moved there) and the Beeb filming a documentary in the kitchens where you can afford to work for F-all as a nipper (because you don't have huge housing overheads). Give 99% of working people something to aim and work for and you'd be surprised how hard they work. The reason immigrants work harder? Because they can see all the money they earn and save here being worth a lot more when they take it back home again, and are prepared to live cheap/studenty in the short-term. Has bugger all to do with race or nationality. I know a lot of nippers who want to work (and do wherever they can find it), but have the will sucked out of them slowly when they hand over 60% of that weeks wage to a landlord and can see absolutely no prospects for improvement or advancement out of said situation in the future. Edited August 28, 2013 by byron78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stainless Sam Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Never met Jamie Oliver. He just comes over as the sort of character that I would cross the street to kick in the nads with a broken foot. I don't know why. But for the first time ever, I think he's right. Immigrants, Germans, Eastern Europeans, they're all the same, not afraid of hard work and in the German case, reasonably rewarded for it. If I go to my local hand job car wash, I sometimes see a new "local" face, moving half as fast as the Romanian guys. Never to be seen the next time or ever again, but the guys with the stubble and roll ups just keep ploughing on at £5 a wash. As for paying wages linked to housing costs - stuff that for a game of soldiers. We live in a wonderful, capitalist, market driven economy. If the wages aren't high enough labour will move elsewhere........ rents fall........ property prices fall.......labour returns. Everyone's happy. Edited August 28, 2013 by Stainless Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) The reason immigrants work harder? Because they can see all the money they earn and save here being worth a lot more when they take it back home again, and are prepared to live cheap/studenty in the short-term. Has bugger all to do with race or nationality. Doesn't explain the masses that have come here effectively permanently. The work harder because they are the most proactive from their country i.e. they had the motivation to get on a plane and leave and work for a living. The other reason they come, and I doubt anyone would disagree with this, the national minimum wage benefits migrant workers more than it does the native workers. Everything is set up for natives to completely undercut any foreign migrant worker threat: speak the language, young can live in family home with extremely cheap rent, and don't have to leave their social life behind. Edited August 28, 2013 by cica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stainless Sam Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) The other reason they come, and I doubt anyone would disagree with this, the national minimum wage benefits migrant workers more than it does the native workers. No, I disagree. Minimum wages benefits migrants and natives exactly the same - £6.19 per hour. In fact for migrants, it's often less than that. The difference is that migrants can achieve more / settle for less when paid that little. Four to a room, etc. Whereas poor little Johnny who couldn't be ar$ed to go to school half the time and still sponges off his parents after he's spent his dole money thinks NMW isn't enough to buy everything he wants in life. He's holding out for £12 an hour. He'll have a long wait. Edited August 28, 2013 by Stainless Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Eastern Europeans ... not afraid of hard work ... A statement which is frankly comical to anyone whos pent any significant time travelling/working there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Don't know much about him, but what I have seen, he's got a lot of energy and drive, and everything came together to make himself into a brand. Don't resent his wealth or anything. Just it's been a trend in recent decades for the rich to buy up surrounding homes in London, which used to comfortably house families, and turn them into big mansions. Don't like that at all. Can't find the study I read two years ago, but it said the rich doing this was changing the fabric of housing in London; with fewer charming perfectly adequate family homes in the capital. Not going to take lectures from someone extending their housing footprint in central London, with housing supply/price conditions as they are. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1207533/How-like-new-house-girls-Jamie-Oliver-takes-growing-family-visit-7-5m-super-home.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2342678/Tycoon-buys-seven-Regents-Park-houses-create-200m-supermansion-underground-leisure-complex.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Minimum wage was introduced for one reason only. To attract migrant workers. After all if you are Romanian living in a field, then £6 an hour is going to sound attractive. The biggest evil of NMW is not so much paying kitchen staff it, but also immigrant graduates. I know a local employer that is getting a website/backend done paying non national graduates NMW to do it. They are crap of course but he thinks he's getting a bargain. I know an ISP's tech support which is run entirely from one of the former Yugoslavian countries. Its all done remotely, but its still a British job loss. System admins and programmers working for NMW That is what you have to watch. Once we get MP's, civil servants, solicitors and judges on NMW it will all be much fairer (in order to compete with hard working, non whinging immigrants) but strangely I don't think this will be allowed to happen. Edited August 28, 2013 by aSecureTenant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynardgravy Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 For any other age group or nationality this would be considered ageist and racist. For what it's worth I work with Eastern Europeans and Portuguese. Some are good, some are ok others are useless chancers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He's right that british workers whinge more. He doesn't say whether or not they have a good reason to. If he dropped the immigrants wages to a third of what he is currently paying them they would whinge too. You need to pay british workers who did not buy property before the bubble started 3+ times more or they cannot afford to live. If there was another EU country the uk kids could work in whilst slumming it for a couple of years and come back with enough cash to buy a house outright they'd be working just as hard over there as they do over here. And in relatively stress free mundane physical labour type jobs as well, sounds fantastic. These 'lazy' kids would jump at the chance, and so would I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 He's right that british workers whinge more. He doesn't say whether or not they have a good reason to. If he dropped the immigrants wages to a third of what he is currently paying them they would whinge too. You need to pay british workers who did not buy property before the bubble started 3+ times more or they cannot afford to live. If there was another EU country the uk kids could work in whilst slumming it for a couple of years and come back with enough cash to buy a house outright they'd be working just as hard over there as they do over here. And in relatively stress free mundane physical labour type jobs as well, sounds fantastic. These 'lazy' kids would jump at the chance, and so would I. +1 Excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Doesn't explain the masses that have come here effectively permanently. The work harder because they are the most proactive from their country i.e. they had the motivation to get on a plane and leave and work for a living. The other reason they come, and I doubt anyone would disagree with this, the national minimum wage benefits migrant workers more than it does the native workers. Everything is set up for natives to completely undercut any foreign migrant worker threat: speak the language, young can live in family home with extremely cheap rent, and don't have to leave their social life behind. Just wondering what the benefits system is like in say Poland, latvia, lithuania, bulgaria, Romania, etc ? and also what benefits a immigrant worker/family may receive from the UK Govt. Spent a few holidays in Bulgaria several years ago and a Guy i knew well said something like a million Bulgarians work abroad, but most at some point will want to return home, quite possibly the same for most other countries. For those that stay permanently are they still sending money home for family and maybe to buy that cheap house in their country for £10k at a later date? Can the young live rent free though? how many parents would allow that for any length of time?, fair enough if parents say you can live rent free here for however many years and save like a monk. Not sure how it works if family unemployed and you're bringing in a NMW, would you have to contribute something towards getting/receiving benefits ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 No, I disagree. Minimum wages benefits migrants and natives exactly the same - £6.19 per hour. In fact for migrants, it's often less than that. The difference is that migrants can achieve more / settle for less when paid that little. Four to a room, etc. Whereas poor little Johnny who couldn't be ar$ed to go to school half the time and still sponges off his parents after he's spent his dole money thinks NMW isn't enough to buy everything he wants in life. He's holding out for £12 an hour. He'll have a long wait. Except that's a load of crap isn't it? If it has nothing to do with the relative worth of wages, then where are the millions of germans, swedes, dutch, danish, etc, etc? Why are they all eastern europeans? If the wages are worth the same amount to any and every one, surely they must be coming over here in droves too....? The answer is of course your post is a load of crap and it's everything to do with wages..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 No, I disagree. Minimum wages benefits migrants and natives exactly the same - £6.19 per hour. In fact for migrants, it's often less than that. The difference is that migrants can achieve more / settle for less when paid that little. Four to a room, etc. Whereas poor little Johnny who couldn't be ar$ed to go to school half the time and still sponges off his parents after he's spent his dole money thinks NMW isn't enough to buy everything he wants in life. He's holding out for £12 an hour. He'll have a long wait. I bet you love those inspirational $2 a day Africans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Its quite interesting isn't it.Iv just had a phone call from a multi-national pharma company offering me a job.The wages are around 40% of what I was getting doing a similar job 22 years ago.This company makes in the multi billions a year in profits.If you take in the cost of the house I bought 22 years ago and what they go for now the wages of the job offer are 21% of what I was getting 22 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Just heard this debated on Radio 4's Any Questions. Not one person mentioned pay to housing cost ratio! NOT ONE MENTION OF IT!! IF YOU WANT YOUNG PEOPLE TO BE MOTIVATED TO WORK, LET THEM HAVE THE PAY THAT GIVES THE REWARD OF A HOME!!! THAT'S WHY PEOPLE WORK..... TO BE REWARDED WITH A HOME! FFS! Edited August 30, 2013 by DogTired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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