Don't Swallow It: Six Health Myths You Should Ignore

[Byron]

I am having trouble with the Mediterranean diet, red wine and olive oil.

Now we all know that there are lakes of this stuff to be shifted.

I have been told that any supposed benefit is a fallacy, because European countries have a category of death labelled ' Natural Sudden Death' which can apply to any older person keeling over.

The UK however requires a post mortem and exact cause of death, regardless of the circumstances.

That is why our apparent heart death rates are higher.

However, search as much as I can, I cannot confirm this.

Still, the EU needs you to drink up all the red wine and olive oil!

[Frank Hovis]

Absolutely Frank, especially in hot countries, like Cornwall! You sweat a lot of salt, and your body needs someI Actually don't use a lot of salt in cooking, but my special diet means I eat a lot of crisps with my ale!

What's this special diet and where can I apply? Is it down to a medical condition so you can get ale and crisps on prescription?

[MrPin]

What's this special diet and where can I apply? Is it down to a medical condition so you can get ale and crisps on prescription?

How I wish, Frank! Now I willing to discuss my special dietary needs on this forum! I've discovered the "Southern Poofters"ale diet!

You start about 19:00 hours, drinking the most powerful ale you can find, and then when the pub shuts, you stagger home!

I'm sure Mr XYY will agree, it's done different up North! I lived in Newcastle for a while! You start at about 21:30, and then you shovel it down, double rounds, all round! Until the pub shuts obviously! Now the trouble with this "Geordie diet", is you have to wake up every half an hour for a leak! And it goes on until about 04:00! Good exercise for the kidneys, I guess!

[the gardener]

I am having trouble with the Mediterranean diet, red wine and olive oil.

Now we all know that there are lakes of this stuff to be shifted.

I have been told that any supposed benefit is a fallacy, because European countries have a category of death labelled ' Natural Sudden Death' which can apply to any older person keeling over.

The UK however requires a post mortem and exact cause of death, regardless of the circumstances.

That is why our apparent heart death rates are higher.

However, search as much as I can, I cannot confirm this.

Still, the EU needs you to drink up all the red wine and olive oil!

I've read something to that effect too so there must be something in it.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

I am having trouble with the Mediterranean diet, red wine and olive oil.

Now we all know that there are lakes of this stuff to be shifted.

I have been told that any supposed benefit is a fallacy, because European countries have a category of death labelled ' Natural Sudden Death' which can apply to any older person keeling over.

The UK however requires a post mortem and exact cause of death, regardless of the circumstances.

That is why our apparent heart death rates are higher.

However, search as much as I can, I cannot confirm this.

Still, the EU needs you to drink up all the red wine and olive oil!

The red wine thing stems partly from the French paradox...

The French paradox is the catchphrase frequently used to summarize the apparently paradoxical epidemiological observation that French people have a relatively low incidence of coronary heart disease (CHD), despite having a diet relatively rich in saturated fats,[1] in apparent contradiction to the widely-held belief that the high consumption of such fats is a risk factor for CHD. The paradox is that if the thesis linking saturated fats to CHD is valid, the French ought to have a higher rate of CHD than comparable countries where the per capita consumption of such fats is lower.

Re. dying in the UK

Post mortems are not routinely carried out on anyone who dies.

And, based on the death certificates of family members that have passed through my hands, which is unfortunately a few, the doctor completing the certificate will ID an underlying specific condition if known but can also chalk it up to something generic like lack of oxygen to the brain, or something like that, if we're talking an older person who was clearly on the way out one way or another.

[Frank Hovis]

From that wiki page:

Theory that the French paradox is a statistical illusion

In 1999, Malcolm Law and Nicholas Wald published a study in the British Medical Journal,[6] using data from a 1994 study of alcohol and diet to explain how the French paradox might actually be an illusion, caused by two statistical distortions.

First, Law and Wald attributed about 20% of the difference in the observed rates of CHD between France and the United Kingdom to the under-certification of CHD in France, relative to the UK.

Second, Law and Wald presented a time-lag hypothesis: if there were a delay in serum cholesterol concentrations increasing and a subsequent increase in ischaemic heart disease mortality, then the current rate of mortality from CHD is more likely to be linked to past levels of serum cholesterol and fat consumption than to current serum cholesterol levels and patterns of fat consumption. They wrote,

“ We propose that the difference is due to the time lag between increases in consumption of animal fat and serum cholesterol concentrations and the resulting increase in mortality from heart disease—similar to the recognised time lag between smoking and lung cancer. Consumption of animal fat and serum cholesterol concentrations increased only recently in France but did so decades ago in Britain

Evidence supports this explanation: mortality from heart disease across countries, including France, correlates strongly with levels of animal fat consumption and serum cholesterol in the past (30 years ago).

Convinces me. There is no paradox.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

From that wiki page:

Convinces me. There is no paradox.

I'm conscious of the fact that people often confuse correlation with causation and I've always been a bit meh about the 'French paradox', as well as the non paradoxical(?) correlation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease in other countries.

Even if the French paradox really exists there's no proof that red wine would be the reason anyway. As has already been said, it does make for great marketing though.

The Greeks eat a Mediterranean diet, including bonkers amounts of olive oil, and their heart disease rates are shocking.

Most of the Italians I know would love to eat a TV Chef style fantasy Mediterranean diet but that stuff's too expensive. So they load up with not especially heart-friendly pasta and other processed carbs instead.

The historic Scottish diet; oats and oily fish, was arguably at least just as healthy as the idealised Mediterranean diet.

[Frank Hovis]

I'm conscious of the fact that people often confuse correlation with causation and I've always been a bit meh about the 'French paradox', as well as the non paradoxical(?) correlation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease in other countries.

Even if the French paradox really exists there's no proof that red wine would be the reason anyway. As has already been said, it does make for great marketing though.

The Greeks eat a Mediterranean diet, including bonkers amounts of olive oil, and their heart disease rates are shocking.

Most of the Italians I know would love to eat a TV Chef style fantasy Mediterranean diet but that stuff's too expensive. So they load up with not especially heart-friendly pasta and other processed carbs instead.

The historic Scottish diet; oats and oily fish, was arguably at least just as healthy as the idealised Mediterranean diet.

Interesting stats:

Highest rates of death from coronary heart disease among men under the age of 65 were in Hungary (105 per 100,000 population), Estonia (104) Slovakia (74), Greece (50), Finland (48) and UK (44).

For women under 65 these figures were Hungary (28), Estonia (20), Slovakia (19), UK (11), Greece (10) and Belgium (9).

Lowest rates of death from coronary heart disease among men under the age of 65 were in France (17), Netherlands (22), Italy (25) and Norway (27).

For women under 65 these figures were Iceland (3), France (3), Slovenia (5) and Italy (5).

What's the Hungarian paradox then?

I agree with you on the Scottish oats and oily fish, that's a nutritionist's dream. Though it seems that their death rates are caused by the lack of sunlight and hence vitamin D. But that's another thread entirely.

[Frank Hovis]

Interesting side-link off that site too:

"More harm than good" from red grape antioxidant

A natural antioxidant found in red grapes, resveratrol, may not be as beneficial as previously thought. New research in older men suggests that it may counteract the benefits of cardiovascular exercise.

The study comes from researchers at the University of Copenhagen, who suggest that eating an antioxidant-rich diet may hinder the health benefits of exercise, such as lower blood pressure and cholesterol.

The researchers note that since aging is associated with impaired vascular functions due to oxidative strain, resveratrol - which has been shown to decrease vascular disease and improve cardiovascular health - was initially expected to improve cardiovascular health in older men. After all, it has been proven in animal studies to be of benefit in that department.

But in a surprise twist, the researchers found that unlike in our animal counterparts, resveratrol actually impairs the cardiovascular benefits of exercise in older men.

So no red wine if you're an older (study group was 65) man.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/263751.php

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I'm conscious of the fact that people often confuse correlation with causation and I've always been a bit meh about the 'French paradox', as well as the non paradoxical(?) correlation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease in other countries.

Even if the French paradox really exists there's no proof that red wine would be the reason anyway. As has already been said, it does make for great marketing though.

The Greeks eat a Mediterranean diet, including bonkers amounts of olive oil, and their heart disease rates are shocking.

Most of the Italians I know would love to eat a TV Chef style fantasy Mediterranean diet but that stuff's too expensive. So they load up with not especially heart-friendly pasta and other processed carbs instead.

The historic Scottish diet; oats and oily fish, was arguably at least just as healthy as the idealised Mediterranean diet.

Its not uncommon for Greek families I know of who get their own olive oil to use 2 or 3 litres a week.

I would suggest that as they have catapulted themselves into the first world, their penchant for meat, frying and sweets that make your teeth fall out in quantities far more than they are used to must be partly to blame.

However a diet of fresh fish, horta, vlita and mpamies, lashings of lemon juice and occasional real meat is probably not the problem.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

However a diet of fresh fish, horta, vlita and mpamies, lashings of lemon juice and occasional real meat is probably not the problem.

Probably not.

I am suggesting that olive oil (and wine) are not the panaceas they are sometimes suggested to be.

[Oliver Sutton]

What about the Japanese paradox.

Smoke a lot (2.5 times the UK level) and eat loads of carbs yet have world's highest life expectancy (83) and low obesity rates.

[Guest eight]

What about the Japanese paradox.

Smoke a lot (2.5 times the UK level) and eat loads of carbs yet have world's highest life expectancy (83) and low obesity rates.

That must be for the men. I thought the women all got eaten by sea monsters whilst wearing school uniform?

[Nuggets Mahoney]

What about the Japanese paradox.

Smoke a lot (2.5 times the UK level) and eat loads of carbs yet have world's highest life expectancy (83) and low obesity rates.

I assumed that was something to do with consumption of endangered species.

[MrPin]

Interesting side-link off that site too:

So no red wine if you're an older (study group was 65) man.

Boll0cks!! I'll be drinking wine until it's finished! God has told me to rid the World of the evil of alcohol! So I'm drinking the lot, before the feeble minded Humans get their hands on it!

[MrPin]

That must be for the men. I thought the women all got eaten by sea monsters whilst wearing school uniform?

I've seen that film!

[MrPin]

I reckon six pints and a kebab, is fine!

[Oliver Sutton]

I assumed that was something to do with consumption of endangered species.

Or they eat less wheat and rice isn't as bad? (contains no gluten)

[MrPin]

Or they eat less wheat and rice isn't as bad? (contains no gluten)

I eat quite a lot of rice! Pasta seems to bloat me up!

[chronyx]

I eat quite a lot of rice! Pasta seems to bloat me up!

Yup, they feed cows grain to fatten them up ready for slaughter...

[snowflux]

More detail on the dangers of taking vitamin supplements on the Beeb today:

The problem with taking too many vitamins

This piece is about what we have learned about vitamin supplements in the last few years - if you are healthy, and you live in a country like the UK, taking multi-vitamins and high-dose antioxidants may shorten your life.

[ccc]

Just saw advert on tv for channel 4 show on Monday called health freaks.

Lots of people with home remedies for common ailments. Some of them look pretty mental.

Then get assessed by a bunch of doctors and tests done etc.

Looks that at least one of them is proven pretty conclusively to actually work. Will be interesting to see what it is.

(its stuff like drinking your own pish and getting bees to sting you etc)

[Frank Hovis]

More detail on the dangers of taking vitamin supplements on the Beeb today:

The problem with taking too many vitamins

I didn't know that about eating dog liver / vitamin A overdosing:

After a few weeks Mertz developed stomach pains and diarrhoea. Then his skin started to peel off and his hair fell out. He died incontinent and delirious a few days later.

Mawson suffered similar symptoms. With the kind of understatement typical of his generation of polar explorers he described the skin of the soles of his feet peeling off: "The sight of my feet gave me quite a shock, for the thickened skin of the soles had separated in each case as a complete layer... The new skin underneath was very much abraded and raw."

At first sight Mawson's story seems to be another such tale - starvation combined with a lack of some vital nutrient. In fact, Mawson's description of his symptoms is an almost textbook description of vitamin A overdose - probably from eating dog liver. As little as 100g of husky liver could give a hungry explorer a fatal dose.

[Frank Hovis]

Just saw advert on tv for channel 4 show on Monday called health freaks.

Lots of people with home remedies for common ailments. Some of them look pretty mental.

Then get assessed by a bunch of doctors and tests done etc.

Looks that at least one of them is proven pretty conclusively to actually work. Will be interesting to see what it is.

(its stuff like drinking your own pish and getting bees to sting you etc)

I've been intrigued for ages about what the health beenfits of drinking your own pee are. There are always a tiny number of people who swear by it but it always gets a jokey "That's Life" type coverage whenever it's featured.

[the gardener]

I didn't know that about eating dog liver / vitamin A overdosing:

Yes it's the same with polar bear liver. Admittedly you are less likely to be eating that, more likely the other way round.