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Wurzel Of Highbridge

The Biggest Con In The History Of The Uk Is Underway.

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The central bank and government as directed by the US are directing thousands of savers into BTL in the full knowledge that interest rates are going to rise and property prices will collapse in the very near future.

They are achieving this by keeping savings rates at a record low whilst increasing inflation in food, energy and assets via the derivative markets. The government is keeping wage inflation down by allowing lower cost labor to enter the country.

This differential on savings returns and inflation is pressurizing savers to take their money from relatively save savings account and gamble it in the BTL mortgage market. This process is being enabled by the governments Funding for Lending scheme.

Whats more infuriating is that the US and UK establishment know that interest rates are beginning to rise and that there is absolutely nothing that they can do about it.

We are in the final throws of a last ditch attempt to keep money flooding into property and keep asset prices propped up. Once this round of coercing savers into speculating in property is over there will be nobody left to prop up the Ponzi housing market and at that point all of the good money will have been sucked in and leveraged the maximum it can be.

Mark Carney came up with forward guidance as they knew the credibility of low interest rates remaining was under pressure, they knew it would buy them some extra months before the Carnage arrives, interest rates rise and the savers who have been conned into property market up in 2012/2013 will lose all their savings.

The banks, central bank and government are in the process of conning the general public out of their savings.

A warning for the older crowd "They stole your pensions and now they are after your savings". Do not let them suck you into buy to let.

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/mark-dampier-buytolet-may-be-no-shelter-for-your-cash-8782929.html

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Guest unfunded_liability

The central bank and government as directed by the US are directing thousands of savers into BTL in the full knowledge that interest rates are going to rise and property prices will collapse in the very near future.

...

The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. - J M Keynes

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If BTLs were such a grand deal and brilliant money making opportunity why don't they use all the FFL money and build and let to their hearts content? ;)

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Yes you are right its terrible. We should let the property market drop, then the bondholders and savers with the banks to get wiped out. The alternative is money printing by the central banks (or a combination of the two which we have at the moment).

Not saying that is right but that is the reality. Too much money was loaned on expensive property, and your savings are just a promise and as much 'virtual' as a home owners phantom property wealth. You can't just reduce one side of the balance sheet.

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Until inflation pulls massively away from savings rate, I will keep my powder dry. 2.5 % against 2.8% cpi means I am content to lose a bit. Life's to short to be mucking about with btl with all the hassle That is, of course, if you believe cpi...because certainly most of us are changing our buying habits to undercut cpi...and the index isn't keeping up with behavioural changes.

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You can't win as a saver. If the banks crash you lose your savings. Or QE to save the banks makes your returns subinflationary and you lose your savings!

That said, better to have savings and assets to worry about than to have one's net assets being primarily a £200k variable rate mortgage.

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There is somewhere for savers to put their money.

Shares is where the clever money is going IMO. Which shares are another matter of course, but don't use a fund manager and line their pockets. Potentially far higher gains than btl and some nice blue chip recovery bets out there.

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There is somewhere for savers to put their money.

Shares is where the clever money is going IMO. Which shares are another matter of course, but don't use a fund manager and line their pockets. Potentially far higher gains than btl and some nice blue chip recovery bets out there.

I'm the dumb money and most of my stash is in equities. No fund managers involved; I prefer to lose money myself rather than lose money and pay someone else to do so.

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I'm the dumb money and most of my stash is in equities. No fund managers involved; I prefer to lose money myself rather than lose money and pay someone else to do so.

Sounds like you'd be better in btl. shares aren't for everyone :P

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I'm the dumb money and most of my stash is in equities. No fund managers involved; I prefer to lose money myself rather than lose money and pay someone else to do so.

I've been buying FTSE-100 shares for the last year, a new one in a new sector every time my portfolio falls over a given month. Gradually I'm building up a tracker with no fees.

I have about 8 holdings now, and it tracks the FTSE surprisingly closely.

Edited by the_duke_of_hazzard

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Shares is where the clever money is going IMO.

http://www.infowars.com/they-actually-expect-us-to-have-faith-in-these-financial-markets-after-this-week/

However, let’s certainly not blame all of the “technical issues” in the financial markets on hackers. What happened to Goldman Sachs on Tuesday appears to be very much their own fault…

A programming error at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. caused unintended stock-option orders to flood American exchanges this morning, roiling markets and shaking confidence in electronic trading infrastructure.

An internal system that Goldman Sachs uses to help prepare to meet market demand for equity options inadvertently produced orders with inaccurate price limits and sent them to exchanges, said a person familiar with the situation, who asked not to be named because the information is private. The size of the losses depends on which trades are canceled, the person said. Some have already been voided, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

Of course if those trades had made hundreds of millions of dollars for Goldman they would have been allowed to stand.

But because Goldman was about to lose hundreds of millions of dollars authorities worked very rapidly to start “breaking” those trades.

This is just another example that shows how much of a joke our financial system has become.

Wall Street has become a massive computerized casino, and at some point this fraudulent house of cards is going to come crashing down hard.

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There is somewhere for savers to put their money.

Shares is where the clever money is going IMO. Which shares are another matter of course, but don't use a fund manager and line their pockets. Potentially far higher gains than btl and some nice blue chip recovery bets out there.

Isa tracker....low fees........why pay for adviser, management fees and brokering costs......when a bit in a tax free tracker to the ftse could do the same or better taking high costs and churn into consideration.....just saying. ;)

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Isa tracker....low fees........why pay for adviser, management fees and brokering costs......when a bit in a tax free tracker to the ftse could do the same or better taking high costs and churn into consideration.....just saying. ;)

I think the problem with ISA trackers is that you don't benefit from any dividends paid. I may be wrong about this and am happy to be corrected.

If you invest yourself, then any dividends due are credited to you.

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I think the problem with ISA trackers is that you don't benefit from any dividends paid. I may be wrong about this and am happy to be corrected.

If you invest yourself, then any dividends due are credited to you.

...fine do both, have a few chosen self picked stocks also you can track on an individual basis for yield if that is what you want....but with a tracker you are spreading your risks over more stocks.....sit back and relax.....this is not investment advise only common sense.....eggs baskets and all that. ;)

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I feel like I've lost a close relative.

how long does it take to sell a house in a falling market with no tenant and debt to pay......how long does it take to sell a share with no debt and no tenant to rely on to keep things solvent........property is fine to invest in if you are making use of it by living in it.....other than that why borrow more to add to liquid money making it instantly illiquid. ;)

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are directing thousands of savers into BTL

The banks, central bank and government are in the process of conning the general public out of their savings.

A warning for the older crowd "They stole your pensions and now they are after your savings". Do not let them suck you into buy to let.

They have a choice.

Good. The more older savers who choose to try and make profit off non-owning renters, paying high prices and all the complications which come with being a landlord including legal aspects, the harder the crash. Maybe a reversal of where we are now with house prices hyperinflated. The older crowd tend not to fully appreciate the incredible heights of value their own homes have inflated to. It's a result of their hard-work they too often think. They deserved it. They could downsize more often than not. Savings aren't leveraged. Over-leverage, pay overly high price for investment property, and with a fall in prices, or drop in rents, puts their own homes at risk.

Edited by Venger

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...fine do both, have a few chosen self picked stocks also you can track on an individual basis for yield if that is what you want....but with a tracker you are spreading your risks over more stocks.....sit back and relax.....this is not investment advise only common sense.....eggs baskets and all that. ;)

I was also skeptical about the dividend thing. The fact that it was so hard to find out whether they were included made me suspicious. It makes quite a difference to the returns, and as I say, you don't need that many stocks to make an effective tracker in any case.

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I think the problem with ISA trackers is that you don't benefit from any dividends paid. I may be wrong about this and am happy to be corrected.

If you invest yourself, then any dividends due are credited to you.

No, an ISA tracker generally does repay all dividends. There are 2 options - "income" and "accumulation". Income provides the dividends back to you in cash each quarter, with an accumulation the dividends are automatically reinvested in the fund so the growth is higher.

Investments of the type "increase in the FTSE over the next 5 years, with capital guaranteed" don't pay dividends - you may be getting confused with them. I generally avoid them as they are complicated and involve high fees.

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I was also skeptical about the dividend thing. The fact that it was so hard to find out whether they were included made me suspicious. It makes quite a difference to the returns, and as I say, you don't need that many stocks to make an effective tracker in any case.

Isn`t it easier to pay 0.5% costs (L+G for example) and have them or their computer program just automatically sell and buy a representative sample of the market? I get the thing about doing proper research and holding companies you believe in for years, but isn`t trying to "track" the market by doing your own buying and selling just too much work?

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No, an ISA tracker generally does repay all dividends. There are 2 options - "income" and "accumulation". Income provides the dividends back to you in cash each quarter, with an accumulation the dividends are automatically reinvested in the fund so the growth is higher.

Investments of the type "increase in the FTSE over the next 5 years, with capital guaranteed" don't pay dividends - you may be getting confused with them. I generally avoid them as they are complicated and involve high fees.

That`s right, and you can switch between these options if you want, to get some income from a big pot of money after some years of re-investing dividends?

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Isn`t it easier to pay 0.5% costs (L+G for example) and have them or their computer program just automatically sell and buy a representative sample of the market? I get the thing about doing proper research and holding companies you believe in for years, but isn`t trying to "track" the market by doing your own buying and selling just too much work?

You should be looking for much less than 0.5% these days. However, remember that the AMC doesn't include trading costs (and a whole host of other costs) so even simple churn will burn you eventually.

But yeah, there's no point in trying to recreate a tracker.

My objection to trackers when I started out (late 90s) was that they were cap-weighted and therefore, by definition, going to get stuck in nice and deep into any bubblicious companies or sectors. I've always targeted divi payers and, so far, it seems to worked out OK.

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Yes you are right its terrible. We should let the property market drop, then the bondholders and savers with the banks to get wiped out. The alternative is money printing by the central banks (or a combination of the two which we have at the moment).

Not saying that is right but that is the reality. Too much money was loaned on expensive property, and your savings are just a promise and as much 'virtual' as a home owners phantom property wealth. You can't just reduce one side of the balance sheet.

Exactly what everyone who talks about this being 'unfair' to savers doesn't realize (or almost everyone) is that either way the savers have to take the hit.

Either inflation reduces the value of their savings (option 1, UK)

Or debts are defaulted on, the banks are wiped out and savers lose their savings (option 2, cyprus)

It's hilarious to see in the mainstream press people complaining about being screwed over by 1) but then also complaining how unfair 2) was to cyprus savers.

I mean the whole problem is the debts can't be paid and those debts are the mirror image of their savings. So what otherwise do they really expect to happen???

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Exactly what everyone who talks about this being 'unfair' to savers doesn't realize (or almost everyone) is that either way the savers have to take the hit.

Either inflation reduces the value of their savings (option 1, UK)

Or debts are defaulted on, the banks are wiped out and savers lose their savings (option 2, cyprus)

It's hilarious to see in the mainstream press people complaining about being screwed over by 1) but then also complaining how unfair 2) was to cyprus savers.

I mean the whole problem is the debts can't be paid and those debts are the mirror image of their savings. So what otherwise do they really expect to happen???

Well most people think of "pay" and "savings" and "debt" as different forms of the same energy, ie. you have put aside some of your labour (or investment sense) or you have given something and received tokens that have value in the future, or you have borrowed some of your future labour into the present? Messing with this basic assumption is probably going to cause some quite strong reactions, hence all the money printing to keep the "piggy bank" belief alive?

Edit to add; If they touch savings beyond Cyprus, the present debt based money system will die overnight.

Edited by dances with sheeple

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