Steppenpig Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I know a lot of us fantasize about it, but I suspect that even among people who have actually done it, many are probably keeping open the option of coming back. If you really had to do it for some reason, and really thinking about the future, that your children would be growing up this foreign land, probably without the varous options in life we have here (including the option to emigrate). I'm not really that interested in the Anglozone (US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia) because I think that they would be mostly fine (possibly with America being a bit scary in terms of healthcare etc). It's hard to say where Europe is going, but I guess that would still be the obvious choice. Onviously Norway will still be rich for a while yet. To me, South America is out of the question, even though it looks fantastic, but the documentaries I've seen on it, its education system and health services, makes it look like it's heading straight for 3rd world status, and possibly beyond. I guess the next century or so will belong to South East and East Asia (not India), and they all seem obsessed with education so somewhere in that region would be the obvious choice for the future generations. But then social services aren't very good (at the moment anyway) but most people emigrating there are probably relatively "rich", but you have to consider that in 30 or 50 years time, your family might just be a middle of the road bunch of nobodies, or even poor, so you will be relying on the state becoming a prosperous social-market economy. Just reading internet blogs and things, there seem to be quite a few people who have ended up in Japan. That looks like quite a weird and interesting country to me, and although they need to sort their debt out, I expect the will be still doing ok-ish in 50 years time (I don't really believe the "demographic time bomb" is really a problem, in fact it may be a positive thing). I just started thinking about this because of poor old Edward Snowden. Imagine not just having to spend the rest of your life in Russia, Venezuala or North Korea, but also future generations of your family will probably have to grow up there. Grim (edit) Oh, and don't worry about short term problems like learning languages, let's assume that will sort itself out eventually, or atthe very least your children will be able to speak the new language anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Living Overseas section might be of interest.... http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I thought maybe we needed to apply the lateral thinking skills of the off-topic forum to the problem. Ok, if anyone knows where the secret global delete button is, feel free to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Endless people I knew from school and university did this.........they all came back. I think Stewart Lee does a skit on friends emigrating to a former British colony. A lot of people seem to recommend Asian countries, like Thailand, bit of a stigma though post Gary Glitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Ok, if anyone knows where the secret global delete button is, feel free to use it. That's one way to simplify your emigration question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I changed the sub title to emphasise the important distinction between my profoundly important thread, and the many similar looking but inconsequential threads in the Living Overseas forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think it depends on why you emigrated. If you have a positive reason for wanting to be in your destination country, the chances are that you'll stay. If it's a case of 'Britain's a sh!tehole, I want to get out', the chances are that you'll discover that the grass isn't always greener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I know a lot of us fantasize about it, but I suspect that even among people who have actually done it, many are probably keeping open the option of coming back. If you really had to do it for some reason, and really thinking about the future, that your children would be growing up this foreign land, probably without the varous options in life we have here (including the option to emigrate). I'm not really that interested in the Anglozone (US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia) because I think that they would be mostly fine (possibly with America being a bit scary in terms of healthcare etc). It's hard to say where Europe is going, but I guess that would still be the obvious choice. Onviously Norway will still be rich for a while yet. To me, South America is out of the question, even though it looks fantastic, but the documentaries I've seen on it, its education system and health services, makes it look like it's heading straight for 3rd world status, and possibly beyond. I guess the next century or so will belong to South East and East Asia (not India), and they all seem obsessed with education so somewhere in that region would be the obvious choice for the future generations. But then social services aren't very good (at the moment anyway) but most people emigrating there are probably relatively "rich", but you have to consider that in 30 or 50 years time, your family might just be a middle of the road bunch of nobodies, or even poor, so you will be relying on the state becoming a prosperous social-market economy. Just reading internet blogs and things, there seem to be quite a few people who have ended up in Japan. That looks like quite a weird and interesting country to me, and although they need to sort their debt out, I expect the will be still doing ok-ish in 50 years time (I don't really believe the "demographic time bomb" is really a problem, in fact it may be a positive thing). I just started thinking about this because of poor old Edward Snowden. Imagine not just having to spend the rest of your life in Russia, Venezuala or North Korea, but also future generations of your family will probably have to grow up there. Grim (edit) Oh, and don't worry about short term problems like learning languages, let's assume that will sort itself out eventually, or atthe very least your children will be able to speak the new language anyway. IMO there are not that many places that are significantly better than the UK. They all have their benefits and drawbacks. There are a lot of places that are a lot worse than the UK though. Grass always looks greener when you are on a downer. What makes the most difference when you move to these new places or do "new" anything is always your own personal attitude. If you have got itchy feet of course it makes sense to try to do all of this while you are still young with relatively little commitments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timebandit Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Never going to happen again, my choice Ascension . In the early 1980's because of transport delays coming back from the Falklands spent two weeks on Ascension Island. A lovely unkept volcanic Island, beautiful beaches & I got the opportunity to enter the 'Dewpond run' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I agree if you can't make it in the UK there is little chance you will make it elsewhere.....there are only two ways to make it....what you know and what you can offer and who you know that will help you......if you are fluent in a language if you need it, plus a guaranteed job at the end of the journey...go for it.....otherwise stick with what you know, the confident determined with a workable plan can and will find a new way....what lies ahead at the end of that journey nobody can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 1Life is shit, wherever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 IMO there are not that many places that are significantly better than the UK. They all have their benefits and drawbacks. The UK has a great diverse climate with 4 distinct seasons, and the landscape has a great diversity of easily accessible habitats, coastal, freshwater, moorland, mountain etc. It's a great parkland playground while you are working - unfortunately, no true wilderness except in a few very small places and mostly in Scotland All that is now compromised sadly, by a lack of respect towards each other, lack of tolerance of diversity, cr4p political parties, a stupid materialistic population, lies to the young, and the reason this website exists - a tragedy. French Polynesia ? - boring climate though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 French Polynesia ? - boring climate though And like many remote island communities (and especially those in which the main economic activity is tourism), an eyewateringly high cost of living. I lived on the Faroes for just under a year, and have also visited the Falklands and St. Pierre et Miquelon. The cost of everything, from houses to basic foodstuffs, is enough to induce a heart attack. Salaries tend to be accordingly high, but there is very little scope to expand the job market (there are only so many tourists who can visit each year, and only so many fish you can catch and sell), and thus little scope for an immigrant to support him/herself if they arrive without local connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 1Life is shit, wherever True wisdom perhaps. Finding happiness sometimes means accepting that things will never be as you want them, anywhere. That could be because what we think we want isn't what we actually need, or we have wildly unrealistic goals. I'm beginning to look forward to the day when the search is over, and I just sit back and say "Well this is as good/bad as anywhere else. May as well stay put". The UK has a great diverse climate with 4 distinct seasons, and the landscape has a great diversity of easily accessible habitats, coastal, freshwater, moorland, mountain etc. It's a great parkland playground while you are working Really? A great diverse climate... hmm. I'd disagree, but I suppose it's all relative. Chicago for example has four distinct seasons, but not the UK. UK weather is generally about cloud cover and a chill in the air. When I think of UK weather I think of one season! And the terrain is generally very similar anywhere in the country. Green hills and rocks, a very recognisable British look. And yeah I know many here will disagree on that. All the cyclists and hill walkers. But it's a matter of opinion and I'm guessing people who have really seen the world all over will agree with me. The UK is very samey samey all over when compared to other countries, probably due to it's small size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 And yeah I know many here will disagree on that. All the cyclists and hill walkers. But it's a matter of opinion and I'm guessing people who have really seen the world all over will agree with me. The UK is very samey samey all over when compared to other countries, probably due to it's small size. yep, disagree on that:-) I know you said Chicago, but you do have great variety in the UK. I am lucky I admit because I can choose the days I work and so I can take advantage of the weather. I have worked for reasonable lengths of time in different places around the world (long enough to know the place and learn the basics of the language), and along with colleagues, we all agree that the UK is one of the better places to live if you have to work and you enjoy the outdoors and like to to get away for an evening or for the weekend. You can leave work and be surfing on a Cornish beach or climbing a stack, or camping on the moors or hiking places like the South downs or camping in Knoydart or the Glens of Scotland or the Pembrokeshire coast within a few moments depending upon where you live. Huge variety within juts a few minutes or a few hours at most. The UK is also a good base to get a way from to somewhere else. It's a bit like working in a massive city park. If I don't need to work however, and if I can't afford to buy a remote property with no near neighbours in the UK (so far I have rented for over 25 years), I would leave for another country as I like neither the materialism and the overcrowding nor the selfishness that comes with them, and which you seem to meet everywhere in the UK nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 And like many remote island communities (and especially those in which the main economic activity is tourism), an eyewateringly high cost of living. I lived on the Faroes for just under a year, and have also visited the Falklands and St. Pierre et Miquelon. The cost of everything, from houses to basic foodstuffs, is enough to induce a heart attack. Salaries tend to be accordingly high, but there is very little scope to expand the job market (there are only so many tourists who can visit each year, and only so many fish you can catch and sell), and thus little scope for an immigrant to support him/herself if they arrive without local connections. French Polyniesia isn't too bad as it has a lot of local products. It all depends whether you need the 'comforts' you were used to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Endless people I knew from school and university did this.........they all came back. I think Stewart Lee does a skit on friends emigrating to a former British colony. A lot of people seem to recommend Asian countries, like Thailand, bit of a stigma though post Gary Glitter. It's all about the prawns apparently. Five times the size of English prawns Though a search on Youtube doesn't back me up on this. (memory-holed in response to a copyright claim by Lee allegedly) My mother's family emigrated to the UK, reluctantly, in the late 40s because they couldn't afford stuff like food or footwear. My ex's family emigrated to NZ from the UK in the 60s, saying goodbye to family and friends pretty much for good, not because they were particularly hungry but because they fancied a 'better life'. The former I find understandable. The latter a little odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I know a lot of us fantasize about it, but I suspect that even among people who have actually done it, many are probably keeping open the option of coming back... Short version of a long story, not that that long ago I found myself, on my own, with a residency visa in a country I adored and would much rather live out my years in than the UK. Back in the UK there were people who needed me at the expense of me moving back and the visa expiring. I came back. Others would disagree with that call. Australasia is stuffed full of them. btw there would be worse things than being in stuck in Russia indefinitely, particularly if you have some measure of fame and a few dollars in your back pocket. If he's that way inclined Snowden will be getting more than he can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Endless people I knew from school and university did this.........they all came back. Most of the best people I knew at Oxford and in my early jobs did this. None of them went back willingly, but some lost their job on a temporary work permit and had no choice. I certainly have no intention of going back myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Personally I'd go for Germany or the Netherlands. In the case of the latter - the Dutch people are engaging with a slight "no-nonsense" culture, the language isn't that hard to learn, and they seem to reject the sort of Americanised crap we fall for e.g. there's only one McDonalds in Amsterdam in a slightly tawdry area. It has lots of independent stores and lots of bookstores and culture, a liberalised drug culture, bicycles, trams, trains that seem to work well, and some delightful areas like Haarlem. On the other hand the cost of living, from what I could see, is about the same as the UK though you do get a "lot more for your money" and you can walk around even the city areas without feeling like you're going to be mugged or knifed at any moment and unlike here, most of it is really nice to look at. My personal view is that you really need to embrace the culture of where you're planning on going for this to work, as opposed to some Brits who go to live on godawful sprawling complexes of "apartments" in Spain who have no intention of "fitting in" and then wonder why the Spanish don't exactly "warm" to them and why there isn't a Tesco. The idea of contextualising that idea the other way around just doesn't even seem to occur. The Netherlands is probably my cultural ideal which is what makes me choose that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Personally I'd go for Germany or the Netherlands. The Netherlands is probably my cultural ideal which is what makes me choose that country. Yes, and you can't see Wales, or anything Welsh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Yes, and you can't see Wales, or anything Welsh! I'm told that South NL actually resembles Wales. Although we've travelled a bit in that country we've never gone that far South. I'm more a rural convert so living in (for) the city doesn't appeal that much, but Amsterdam is probably the one city I think I could live in - over here, Cambridge is the closest thing we have to it. (our best city, I think) Actually Wales does really appeal in terms of the scenery, but I suspect a bit of a culture clash. Which is what it's all about really - I think you really have to want to embrace the culture and in all honesty my complete ignorance of Wales doesn't help. Therefore, to clarify, the problem is not Wales, or the Welsh, it is a perceived problem that lies within me because I haven't been there since we visited Portmeirion (stunning!) about 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I'm told that South NL actually resembles Wales. Although we've travelled a bit in that country we've never gone that far South. I'm more a rural convert so living in (for) the city doesn't appeal that much, but Amsterdam is probably the one city I think I could live in - over here, Cambridge is the closest thing we have to it. (our best city, I think) Actually Wales does really appeal in terms of the scenery, but I suspect a bit of a culture clash. Which is what it's all about really - I think you really have to want to embrace the culture and in all honesty my complete ignorance of Wales doesn't help. Therefore, to clarify, the problem is not Wales, or the Welsh, it is a perceived problem that lies within me because I haven't been there since we visited Portmeirion (stunning!) about 20 years ago. Holland also seems to be having a HPC which is a bonus. And you're wrong, the problem is the Welsh. Moving back to Wales is probably the last thing I'd ever do and my wife would divorce me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Holland also seems to be having a HPC which is a bonus. And you're wrong, the problem is the Welsh. Moving back to Wales is probably the last thing I'd ever do and my wife would divorce me. Christ Almighty! Not another Welshy! I met a person from another office and he was Welsh! He came to our office in London! I told him the lift goes "up" and I bet he and never been in one of those before! Luckily this over-sized Rugby player had a GSOH. as they say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Living Overseas section might be of interest.... http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=72 Indeed, everywhere is 'overseas'. "Fog in English Channel, Continent Cut Off", as the newspaper headline famously went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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