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crashmonitor

Europe's Demographic Timebomb

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Not sure if we are doing this right...immigrant workers to support the retired, and import some more to support those immigrant workers when they reach retirement and you have to expand the population infinitum....

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarner/100015944/uk-sits-pretty-amid-europes-demographic-timebomb/

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Surely we kick out the immigrant workers when they reach retirement as they can no longer work?

The rush has started and the Bulgarians and Romanians are pre-empting the deadline.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10243709/New-wave-of-immigrants-begins.html

Can someone please explain how 25 years in low paid employment and 25 years retirement is a positive tax advantage. Does this accounting include retirement costing. We will need to import two more immigrants for each retiring immigrant worker in 25 years time so that the retirement Ponzi can continue.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Its a pretty inane metric to compare it on alone. (and in fairness, he only brings up a cheap pro-immigration reference in the last sentence), focusing on something else...

The reason for these differences is that Britain and the Netherlands havecomparatively well developed private sector pensions provision, whereas in much of the rest of Europe, pensions are substantially funded on a pay as you go basis by the state.

(not exactly a shock given private sector pensions at least have some regulation...the state on the other hand shoves them on the 'unfunded liability pile') - This is inevitable, the state can only steal wealth and freedom when it appears to give something for nothing. The original voters who signed up for the abomination that is known as the state pension obviously paid in next to nothing and got decades of free money. Those retiring now, who never had a say in the formation of this sick extortion will get the complete opposite. Decades of paying in and near worthless payments back. Such is the result of govt ponzi's. The over-generous Euro scheme not surprisingly had the moral hazard of encouraging complete reliance on the state. Not much use when the state is lying. (not that the actual future result will be much different here now...the young are simply too poor to save) Oh yes, government is cancerous wherever it goes.

Indeed, could it also be pensions spending is lower here because the basic state pension is really low in comparison, and you are expected to retire later rather than the influence of our wonderful endless supply of wage suppressing immigrants?

Millions of Britons are being condemned to poverty in old age by the worst state pension in the EU, a study shows.

The basic state pension of £87.30 a week is equivalent to just 17 per cent of the average wage, it found.

This figure rises to 30 per cent once pension payments related to earnings are taken into account.

But this is still only half the EU average of 60 per cent, the financial firm Aon Consulting said.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarner/100015944/uk-sits-pretty-amid-europes-demographic-timebomb/

All obscenely pro-mass immigration articles duplicitiously only ever touch the surface. They compare things like 'working age population to retiree ratio' overlooking the fact that just because they are working age, it doesnt actually mean they are working. (we have 9.3mn economonically inactive vs 10 mn pensioners - working age inactive are almost as numerous as retirees!) Even if they are, are they thus taking the job of a native unemployed person who could do that job?

Then think of the schooling, nannying, NHS costs of an immigrant baby boom (conveniently timed to coincide with a native retirement boom)

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Besides, hasnt the near worst country of the lot, france, been the only one to embrace mass immigration even more than us? 40 years ago, approx when the baby boom ended in the west, France had a lower population than the UK. Today it is a couple million higher. I doubt the ethnic french have any higher fertility rate than the rest of western europe, so the added population must be immigration.

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All obscenely pro-mass immigration articles duplicitiously only ever touch the surface. They compare things like 'working age population to retiree ratio' overlooking the fact that just because they are working age, it doesnt actually mean they are working. (we have 9.3mn economonically inactive vs 10 mn pensioners - working age inactive are almost as numerous as retirees!) Even if they are, are they thus taking the job of a native unemployed person who could do that job?Then think of the schooling, nannying, NHS costs of an immigrant baby boom (conveniently timed to coincide with a native retirement boom)

I agree that this is very rarely taken into account. An immigrant worker who is a net contributor to the tax system, but taking a job that would have been filled by a native unemployed anyway, is in fact hindering the exchequer's position.

So many factors conveniently not brought into the equation, the biggest of which is the eventual cost of retiring an immigrant worker.

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Besides, hasnt the near worst country of the lot, france, been the only one to embrace mass immigration even more than us? 40 years ago, approx when the baby boom ended in the west, France had a lower population than the UK. Today it is a couple million higher. I doubt the ethnic french have any higher fertility rate than the rest of western europe, so the added population must be immigration.

France has a pretty good demographic due to tax breaks if you have 3 or more children. So you do find a lot of families, even French natives, who have 3, 4 or even 5 children. The downside is that women often do not work or work part time as the tax system makes it unattractive to work, so the size of the workforce supporting retirees is smaller. However the native French are outbred by immigrants, largely of North African origin, where unemployment is much higher than average for various reasons amongst which are educational achievement and work attitude (or discrimination by employers depending which side of the political spectrum you sit).

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France has a pretty good demographic due to tax breaks if you have 3 or more children. So you do find a lot of families, even French natives, who have 3, 4 or even 5 children. The downside is that women often do not work or work part time as the tax system makes it unattractive to work, so the size of the workforce supporting retirees is smaller. However the native French are outbred by immigrants, largely of North African origin, where unemployment is much higher than average for various reasons amongst which are educational achievement and work attitude (or discrimination by employers depending which side of the political spectrum you sit).

Interesting. This I did not know.

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France also has a high number of retired immigrants who pay taxes in France but do not use much in the way of public services as health and pensions are paid based on the country where they spent their working lives.

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France also has a high number of retired immigrants who pay taxes in France but do not use much in the way of public services as health and pensions are paid based on the country where they spent their working lives.

The pensions must bring in a lot of fx which will be good for the economy. How does the health thing work if you go to a French hospital for an operation?

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The pensions must bring in a lot of fx which will be good for the economy. How does the health thing work if you go to a French hospital for an operation?

Exactly as it would for any French resident through producing your Carte Vitale. The Carte Vitale is provided via form S1 which in effect transfers health provision from the country where contributions were paid to the country of residence. Of course the Carte vitale has to be funded through cotisatians in France if under state retirement age.

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