Open University Being Hammered.

[ZeroSumGame]

I honestly thought that the Lib Dems were the 'pro-Student' party, especially with the 'no tuition fees' policy. Stupid, I know..

I'm not so sure that they really aren't.

I think the Libs were professionally shafted by the Tories on their core policy and there was nowt they could do about it - if they wanted to remain as a junior partner in government.

Hate the Libs if you want to, but I think more it's full credit to the Tories for getting the Libs wasted on the Tory triple fee increases by Willetts.

[RentingForever]

Are there any companies that simply offer an exam and marking service? The idea being that they publish a loose recommended curriculum for the subject, then it's up to the student to learn it by themselves. They pay for a seat at the exam(s) and wait for a mark. A sort of no frills qualification. The costs would surely be much lower.

University of London do degrees this way through the "International Programme". Doesn't work out a whole lot cheaper though - you're essentially paying for the brand.

[RentingForever]

I'm glad the students are satisfied with their education, but more interested in whether or not employers are happy with the standards. How does the OU rate compared to the decent universities. Any employers willing to elaborate?

(I'm not an employer but...)

It depends on the subject. The maths and arts degrees are respected - about the same level as a decent redbrick uni - but I'm not so sure about science and engineering. They're book-based with no lab time, so how good they are at producing scientists/engineers with practical skills is questionable.

Generally I suspect employers are impressed by the fact that most OU graduates had the discipline to do it while also holding down jobs, raising families etc.

[SuperChimp]

It is just as bad prior to University.

I didn't study Maths beyond O Level at school and recently thought about doing an A Level at my local college in Liverpool.

I phoned them up to enquire about fees as the website didn't list them and was told the first year would cost £400.

£400 for an AS Level. I assume it is the same for A Level so just short of £1000 gets you an A Level.

I just bought the text book off Amazon instead.

Edited August 12, 2013 by 98% Chimp

[BristolBuyer]

Personally, £400 a year for a maths AS level sounds OK to me. I'm about to pay that for a year of evening classes leading to GCSE French, which will be useful for my job and holidays. I intend to get a high grade.

I've tried motivating myself to learn French at home from books, Internet, etc. but I'm too lazy. Attending a weekly class provides sufficient peer pressure to make me want to succeed. There's also the social aspect, which is important to a lot of attendees.

[MrPin]

I did A levels part time in the late 70s. I recollect it was about £12 each, and similar for the exams! Even OU courses were reasonable back then! They are not now!

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

I did A levels part time in the late 70s. I recollect it was about £12 each, and similar for the exams! Even OU courses were reasonable back then! They are not now!

I bet you paid £199 for your 4 bed detached house too - had to save 3 months salary for the deposit too.

[MrPin]

1

I bet you paid £199 for your 4 bed detached house too - had to save 3 months salary for the deposit too.

I paid 30p for a pint of Guinness! Honestly, the evening classes were dead cheap then! I started by signing up for Maths, two evenings a week, and when I ran out of work I did Physics, and Chemistry in afternoon sessions! I had casual work on a building site at the time!

[Steppenpig]

There seem to be two irreconcilable views.

1) Modern university education is a joke anyway.

2) The Tory-Dems are bastards for shafting it.

As I agree with (1) I find it quite sensible that the government shouldn't pay for it. [edit: mostly agree]

Edited August 12, 2013 by BigPig

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

£400 for an AS level?

Can't you just get a syllabus from one of the exam boards and a textbook from the bookshop?

[South Lorne]

I honestly thought that the Lib Dems were the 'pro-Student' party, especially with the 'no tuition fees' policy. Stupid, I know..

...huh...they only promised that because they didn't believe they would hold government office ...just a way of embarrassing the other parties...and of course when they came into office through a coalition ...they caved in ...trendy slightly left pseudos with no actual experience of real life...what else would you expect...?...

[stormymonday_2011]

£400 for an AS level?

Can't you just get a syllabus from one of the exam boards and a textbook from the bookshop?

My suggestion to any prospective DIY student would be to by pass the domestic version of the qualifications such as A level and to opt for one of the International versions such as those offered by Cambridge International (CIE) which are assessed purely by terminal examinations. They are far less likely to be subjected to gerrymandering by our f*ckwit domestic politicians

[Lewis Gordon Pugh]

A friend of mine was a part-time lecturer at the OU. He got out as he said he felt the politically correct agenda was to remove the balls of any male working there.

He made a good hourly rate but he said that he spent so much unpaid time marking and preparing lectures that it was not worth it in the end. However, he said that there were loads of permanent staff on eye-watering salaries and pensions.

This is the same as many other 'universities' (read ex-poly). Agenda to feminise all men and remove any man with any testicular fortitude. Lots of boomer lecturers on fat salaries and younger lecturers made up of part timers on zero hour contracts.

[Hectors House]

The OP I think said "Business Studies" inferring those degrees were pretty much worthless, I do know of someone who did that degree at Aston University and has had a very successful career reaching Marketing Director with a board appointment at age 29 and earning over £100K pa!

However its not all roses, the university system is another bubble, UK student numbers are falling and will continue to do so, Universities are more interested in overseas students anyway, however logic and common sense will soon prevail when the students home countries realise that they can do the course for less than half the money at home!

The UK Universities (Polys) are doomed!

[fluffy666]

I'm not so sure that they really aren't.

I think the Libs were professionally shafted by the Tories on their core policy and there was nowt they could do about it - if they wanted to remain as a junior partner in government.

Hate the Libs if you want to, but I think more it's full credit to the Tories for getting the Libs wasted on the Tory triple fee increases by Willetts.

No, if the Lib Dem MPs had principles they could have rebelled in sufficient numbers to defeat the bill. No reason why the coalition would have automatically ended.. let's face it, the conservatives also wanted to stay in government. Ironically, if a GE had been triggered by the Lib Dems refusing to triple tuition fees, they would have been able to campaign on being principled.

[fluffy666]

There seem to be two irreconcilable views.

1) Modern university education is a joke anyway.

2) The Tory-Dems are bastards for shafting it.

As I agree with (1) I find it quite sensible that the government shouldn't pay for it. [edit: mostly agree]

As far as (1) goes..

For people doing science/maths/engineering at decent unis, you really do need to do the 3-year residential, full time thing. You need the concentration, practicals, lab time and contact with other people doing the same thing. I suspect the same to be true in more arts-based subjects. You can't get the same level from online courses at home. And I've done a few MOOCs (passed 3 so far).

However, there are a lot of bums-on-seats degrees out there and too many people going to uni because it's expected of them, rather than because they really want to. And a lot of perfectly good FE colleges, polytechnics and the like, who might have done a few things well have been suckered into the whole 'degree awarding university' bubble.

I also detect some resentment towards the idea of young people enjoying themselves when they should clearly be having their faces shoved against the grindstone. Sod that, it's not like they'll ever be able to afford to retire.

I've said before - I think we should have a 'bank' of 'state-funded years'; perhaps 5 years from the age of 18. These might be used for Uni.. or left a while, of you do 3 years uni and keep the others for career breaks/retraining.. or just retire 5 years early. Paid for by higher taxes instead of expensive private-sector loans - and everyone gets something so no one can complain.

As far as (2) goes, the ConDems are basically trying to ape the US with a punitive student loans scheme, where you need to load up on debt just to get a 'job ticket'. Combine with internships for many influential jobs and you have an excellent mechanism for enforcing a class system whilst pretending to be fair.

[Dorkins]

I've said before - I think we should have a 'bank' of 'state-funded years'; perhaps 5 years from the age of 18.

All that would happen would be one generation would use theirs up and then vote to abolish them for the next, or the people who saved their years for an early retirement and paid for others to get them would find theirs suddenly vanish in a Budget speech. The UK government cannot be trusted to enforce contracts spanning multiple decades and generations.

[winkie]

I think they should create another more worthwhile degree and call it a degree of common sense.