Weight Watchers Shares Fall 19% After Sudden Explosion In Free Aps Hits Demand.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Out of interest - How much exercise were you doing and what was it ?

I've never cared for running but I've done a lot of long distance walking.

So, as I had the time available, ten to twenty mile, fast-paced walks, with a 20 to 30lb pack, four or five times a week.

[ccc]

I've never cared for running but I've done a lot of long distance walking.

So, as I had the time available, ten to twenty mile, fast-paced walks, with a 20 to 30lb pack, four or five times a week.

Far too much effort for far to little reward.

Imo anyway. You would possibly get better results with the right type of exercise for maybe 30% of the duration you were doing.

Not surprised you did not expect to keep that up. Unless it was your job.

30-60 minutes a day. For maybe 5 or 6 days a week - can make a massive difference to anyone.

In my experience anyway.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Far too much effort for far to little reward.

Imo anyway. You would possibly get better results with the right type of exercise for maybe 30% of the duration you were doing.

Not surprised you did not expect to keep that up. Unless it was your job.

30-60 minutes a day. For maybe 5 or 6 days a week - can make a massive difference to anyone.

In my experience anyway.

Like I said, I had the time. I quite enjoyed that side of the equation.

The starving myself bit I didn't enjoy.

The reason why I'm reasonably confident diet is critical, for me anyway, is that every now and then I've gone off the wagon and eaten junk for a few weeks/ months and the weight has started slipping back on. Then I've consciously reigned back the carb consumption and back down it's gone.

edit: the reason why the endocrinologist was iffy about someone in my position keeping their weight down was not the particular regime I had subjected myself to. It was down to the statistics of blokes in their 40s losing weight and subsequently keeping it off for any length of time. They are not good apparently.

[mfp123]

Now this is just not true.

Whatever the eating pattern of that person is, that makes them that overweight, they are in serious storage mode. If you force them to skip a meal, there's no way their body will start burning fat. More likely they will get faint from low blood sugar, grumpy, irritable and finally desperate for a sugar fix.

If this person wants to start burning the stored fat then they first really need to change their diet radically, away from foods that promote fat storage (e.g. sugar, refined starches) and towards foods that promote metabolism of fat (e.g. butter, lard).

what is causing the storage mode is the excess in calories. they are not burning enough off in terms of their daily energy burn.

if your normal day to day routine burns x amount of calories, skipping a meal, or say eating some low calorie brocolli or a lettuce salad will create a deficit, as long as your total falls below your daily calorie burn.

if you eat a lettuce salad for lunch followed by an evening meal that pushes you over your daily calorie burn, eating that salad will do nothing for you, absolutely nothing.

to maintain your weight and say dont want to cut down on food, you can either exercise to the extent it matches your normal calorie intake, or you change your diet to match you normal calorie burn. to cut weight or put it on you need to tip the balance either side.

everyone is different. a 5"1 girl will have a far lower daily calorie burn than a 6" guy. a fitness fanatic will have a higher daily calorie burn than someone sitting down all day.

michael phelps was famous for eating 14" pizzas all the time during his training in the years leading to the beijing olympics. steve redgrave had a daily plan to consume 6000 calories a day to sustain his training routine.

in terms of feeling weak, no ones suggesting people start fasting, just that you eat less, or eat less calories in total. your deficit can be a few hundred calories a day if you want depending on how fast you want to lose your fat, but it must be a deficit.

all the "feeling weak" or if you cut calories you wont have enough energy argument is just an excuse. you are not going on hunger strike. you just need to eat more heathily. eating heathily wont hurt you. people dont need to worry about this.

eating rice, fish, chicken, brocolli wont kill you, or damage your bodys metabolism, or hurt your mental well being.

[mfp123]

Like I said, I had the time. I quite enjoyed that side of the equation.

The starving myself bit I didn't enjoy.

The reason why I'm reasonably confident diet is critical, for me anyway, is that every now and then I've gone off the wagon and eaten junk for a few weeks/ months and the weight has started slipping back on. Then I've consciously reigned back the carb consumption and back down it's gone.

edit: the reason why the endocrinologist was iffy about someone in my position keeping their weight down was not the particular regime I had subjected myself to. It was down to the statistics of blokes in their 40s losing weight and subsequently keeping it off for any length of time. They are not good apparently.

yes. cutting fat isnt enough. if you work off your fat, then once youre down to your ideal weight you go back to your normal routine you will put it back on. because "normal" is what led you to gain fat in the first place.

if people lose the fat but then go back to their usual lifestyle/diet why do they expect doing the same things to lead to different results? its just a temporary blip in the scheme of things.

[ccc]

Like I said, I had the time. I quite enjoyed that side of the equation.

The starving myself bit I didn't enjoy.

The reason why I'm reasonably confident diet is critical, for me anyway, is that every now and then I've gone off the wagon and eaten junk for a few weeks/ months and the weight has started slipping back on. Then I've consciously reigned back the carb consumption and back down it's gone.

edit: the reason why the endocrinologist was iffy about someone in my position keeping their weight down was not the particular regime I had subjected myself to. It was down to the statistics of blokes in their 40s losing weight and subsequently keeping it off for any length of time. They are not good apparently.

Is it not just when you went 'back on the junk' you simply were eating more calories !?

As for your general regime - i could have told you it was almost certain to fail and you don't have to be a medical expert to know that !!

Starving yourself whilst walking very long distances whilst carrying heavy weights 5 days a week - that's just mental.

Personally - and i don't know all the details obviously - you have been scarred by a very poor attempt at using diet and exercise to lord weight.

Can i ask where this regime came from ?

[ccc]

yes. cutting fat isnt enough. if you work off your fat, then once youre down to your ideal weight you go back to your normal routine you will put it back on. because "normal" is what led you to gain fat in the first place.

if people lose fat but then go back to their usual lifestyle/diet why do they expect doing the same things to lead to different results? its just a temporary blip in the scheme of things.

Yes - you just need to do something very simple. Something that many people have successfully done.

Choose an exercise plan and change to diet that you can quite happily do long term. Then just stick to it. Not rocket science. In fact quite the opposite.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Is it not just when you went 'back on the junk' you simply were eating more calories !?

As for your general regime - i could have told you it was almost certain to fail and you don't have to be a medical expert to know that !!

Starving yourself whilst walking very long distances whilst carrying heavy weights 5 days a week - that's just mental.

Personally - and i don't know all the details obviously - you have been scarred by a very poor attempt at using diet and exercise to lord weight.

Can i ask where this regime came from ?

We're going off on a tangent of tangent here. I had a lot of weight to lose in a relatively short space of time and that's the way I chose to do it. The details aren't especially relevant. I lost the weight, didn't die, got the visa, the weight crept back on. I wouldn't recommend that particular route to anyone else, or me, as being sustainable.

The reason why I mentioned the story is because of what I was told by the guy with the data. Most middle-aged blokes who go on exercise/ calorie counting programmes, not just my peculiar way of going about things, to lose weight don't sustain it.

What I have found to be sustainable, with similar results, is reigning back on carbs. I do currently exercise moderately but I've lost weight even when I wasn't exercising very much at all.

Judging by the trade on these threads, I am not the only person to have discovered this.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Starving yourself whilst walking very long distances whilst carrying heavy weights 5 days a week - that's just mental.

Not necessarily as mental as you might think...

Grauniad...

People who have had obesity-related type 2 diabetes for years have been cured, at least temporarily, by keeping to an extreme, low-calorie, diet for two months, scientists report today.

The discovery, reported by scientists at Newcastle University, overturns previous assumptions about type 2 diabetes, which was thought to be a lifelong illness.

I didn't go down to anywhere near 600 calories and the distances and weights involved were moderate by the standards of what I'd done in the past.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

What about those free apps, eh?

If you're selling a subscription-based service that can allegedly be replaced by one-off bit of free software maybe you were getting away with charging money for old rope all those years.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

This article link was next to the article you posted:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jun/25/diabetes-epidemic-western-fast-food

What I've realised subsequently is that maybe it's not the ultra-low calorie aspect of the Newcastle study that appears to have arrested Type II diabetes, it could be that the ultra-low calorie diet also happened to be a low carb diet. More research might be a nice idea, particularly considering how many people are being diagnosed diabetic.

[SpectrumFX]

the best article I've read recently about initiating and sustaining a health and fitness programme:

The Myth of Willpower and “Eat Less, Move More”

http://www.fitocracy.com/knowledge/the-myth-of-willpower-and-eat-less-move-more/

the author's message (with which i concur) is:

The only way to succeed at fitness is to create a positive feedback loop

the poster wibbling about thermodynamics, calories and will-power hasn't a clue what's involved, imo.

I'd agree with the positive feedback loop

Somebody on here (maybe Durch, I can't find the post, but I think it was in the fasting thread) recommended the 'convict conditioning' programme. I've been doing that for months and while I'm actually heavier than I was at the start I'm in better condition and a little thinner at the middle.

The book starts you doing very easy exercises which get - quite slowly - more difficult over time. The author goes on about building "training momentum" which the programme does well

[Oliver Sutton]

What I've realised subsequently is that maybe it's not the ultra-low calorie aspect of the Newcastle study that appears to have arrested Type II diabetes, it could be that the ultra-low calorie diet also happened to be a low carb diet. More research might be a nice idea, particularly considering how many people are being diagnosed diabetic.

Indeed.

[ccc]

End of the day - whilst all this may have some impact - the simple fact remains.

If you are someone who has let themselves get to middle age - sweat when running for a bus - pant when climbing stairs - and can't even see their own **** when standing in the shower ?

Yes - its unlikely changing that to do stuff you couldn't be bothered with before is going to work for many.

However that doesn't mean it doesn't work - its up to the individual if they want it to or not.

Its akin to someone getting a golf lesson that explains to them their grip is all wrong. And being shown how to change it. And 2 weeks later going back to what they have done for 20 years because the new grip 'feels funny'.

The advice is correct. The person just can't be bothered with the effort to give it a real go.

Exercise can help people with weight and make them feel and look better.

Its up to the individual if they want to put in the effort or not.

Nobody is forcing them. Just like nobody is forcing them to eat that cake or sit and watch tv all night instead of going for a swim or a run.

Simple life choices that everyone has to make.

I just can't stand to hear drivel such as 'exercise doesn't work'

Complete 100% unadulterated nonsense.

Anyway i have said my bit. Off to do some stuff now and then think i will go for a wee run. And then have a shower and look down to see my **** below my toned solid stomach.

[the gardener]

Anyway i have said my bit. Off to do some stuff now and then think i will go for a wee run. And then have a shower and look down to see my **** below my toned solid stomach.

Alone.

Edit: in response to your tirade about how lazy people are. Some people work long hours, then have family duties etc. Most days my time is not my own until about 8:30 pm. Doesn't leave much free time when you're up at 6am does it? Well not if you want 8 hours sleep anyway.

[@contradevian]

I just can't stand to hear drivel such as 'exercise doesn't work'

Complete 100% unadulterated nonsense.

Anyway i have said my bit. Off to do some stuff now and then think i will go for a wee run. And then have a shower and look down to see my **** below my toned solid stomach.

One of my mates is the fittest I know, a black guy (Ghana heritage) 32 yo. DOESN'T EXERCISE AT ALL. Six pack the lot. Did a bit of weight training a few years back, but gave up.

Even visits me in the car and I only live round the corner.

He claims the answer is not to each much in fact only eats fruit and vegetables. Meat and dairy are off the menu from what I can see.

So not everyone is the same.

[ccc]

Alone.

Edit: in response to your tirade about how lazy people are. Some people work long hours, then have family duties etc. Most days my time is not my own until about 8:30 pm. Doesn't leave much free time when you're up at 6am does it? Well not if you want 8 hours sleep anyway.

Didn't say lazy - just not bothered to put the effort in required. If that equals 'lazy' - then so be it.

I appreciated lots of people are very busy. However many of these still manage to work it out. They don't magic hours out of thin air.

Instead of thinking they have had a long hard day so then are gonna watch tv for the next hour to relax - they go for a quick run instead.

That's the difference. A small one - but one that can change someone's life for the better.

Anyway - up to the individual.

[@contradevian]

Didn't say lazy - just not bothered to put the effort in required. If that equals 'lazy' - then so be it.

I appreciated lots of people are very busy. However many of these still manage to work it out. They don't magic hours out of thin air.

Instead of thinking they have had a long hard day so then are gonna watch tv for the next hour to relax - they go for a quick run instead.

That's the difference. A small one - but one that can change someone's life for the better.

Anyway - up to the individual.

Running is perhaps the worst thing you can do.

[ccc]

One of my mates is the fittest I know, a black guy (Ghana heritage) 32 yo. DOESN'T EXERCISE AT ALL. Six pack the lot. Did a bit of weight training a few years back, but gave up.

Even visits me in the car and I only live round the corner.

He claims the answer is not to each much in fact only eats fruit and vegetables. Meat and dairy are off the menu from what I can see.

So not everyone is the same.

The fittest you know ? Really ? Never exercises ?

Sorry but that's nonsense. I think you are confusing looking fit with being fit. Different things.

Although the two nearly always go hand in hand. Unless the bloke does a physical job - there is most probably some tall story going on here.

But yes i agree - not everyone is the same. However we are more closely aligned than most people think imo.

[ccc]

Running is perhaps the worst thing you can do.

Indeed. Something we are clearly designed to do - and have been doing non stop for literally hundreds of thousands of years - is clearly just about the worst thing we can do.

Along with breathing and eating i presume ?

[winkie]

Exercise like many other things can be addictive by the release of endorphins that make you feel exhilarated, it is an excellent antidepressant and anxiety reducer....not all bad then.

[@contradevian]

Indeed. Something we are clearly designed to do - and have been doing non stop for literally hundreds of thousands of years - is clearly just about the worst thing we can do.

Along with breathing and eating i presume ?

I see a lot of fat joggers and runners. Sprinting is perhaps a different matter.

[MrPin]

I don't think they are eating so many trans-fat pies! Gregg's aren't doing so well!

[ccc]

I see a lot of fat joggers and runners. Sprinting is perhaps a different matter.

You won't see many - if any - fat runners.

Joggers yes. Probably not the best thing for someone seriously overweight to start on. A bit of fast walking mixed up with short running is an excellent way though.

Running is excellent for fitness. Just you against the world. Nothing helping you unlike swimming or cycling.

A mix of all is of course ideal. And keeps things interesting too.

There are so many things you can do for exercise. I doubt there is one person out there who can't find at least one thing they enjoy doing. There are literally hundreds to choose from.

Anyway - ranting to cease. Just been for a wee run. Feel great.

[Jolly Roger]

Doesn't running shag the knees in the long term? Cheap and easy though I guess.