Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Si1

Daniel Pelka Rip

Recommended Posts

what a terrible business.

is it improper yet to debate what went wrong in the local govt system that he wasn't protected?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The teaching union the NASUWT said it felt there was a "growing disconnect" between schools and social services because of government cuts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-23349527

first I heard of concerns from the unions about the ethical sides of their members jobs - I thought all they were bothered about was their own fat pay packets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what a terrible business.

is it improper yet to debate what went wrong in the local govt system that he wasn't protected?

The safeguarding training I went through recently makes it pretty clear that you can either report to senior colleague (appears to have happened), NSPCC (doesn't seem like it happened), the police (appears not to have happened) or local children's services (appears to have happened). On the face of it - it looks like it fell down at that next step but I guess the investigation will get to the bottom of it.

I also know people who work in child protection. The services are massively overstretched and often lack critical info (eg other services, like police, not sharing info).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2382766/A-guv-culture-failed-poor-Daniel.html

..

Everyone involved will have been so obsessed with the process that they forgot they were dealing with a real-life human being, in this instance a four-year-old boy being brutalised by his drug-taking, prostitute mother and her sadistic lover.

Trying to pin the responsibility on any individual will be like nailing jelly to a wall. They will all have immaculately filled forms and precisely logged emails to prove that they had followed the correct procedure to the letter. Not me, guv.

..

Something like 25,000 children a year are taken into care, half of them against their parents’ wishes.

Social workers target decent families but shy away from anyone who may be violent or might scream ‘racism’.

As a result, the most vulnerable children are abandoned to their fate. Is that what happened in the case of Daniel Pelka?

Councils are obsessed with paperwork, it's more important than the people. As long as the boxes are ticked and the paperwork filled in correctly to set standards irrespective of the amount of time it takes especially if that's at the expense of the individual concerned everything is OK.

I predict that we will have a mental health patient who will go on the rampage and kill people who will have immaculate filled in risk assessments but the people monitoring them will have no time to effectively monitor and engage with that person. However the paperwork will be 100% compliant with policies and procedures so that's OK.

The process is the problem and the sociopaths in charge of it need removing, none of this will happen as the process is king and the paperwork is the most important factor in it all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2382766/A-guv-culture-failed-poor-Daniel.html

Councils are obsessed with paperwork, it's more important than the people. As long as the boxes are ticked and the paperwork filled in correctly to set standards irrespective of the amount of time it takes especially if that's at the expense of the individual concerned everything is OK.

I predict that we will have a mental health patient who will go on the rampage and kill people who will have immaculate filled in risk assessments but the people monitoring them will have no time to effectively monitor and engage with that person. However the paperwork will be 100% compliant with policies and procedures so that's OK.

The process is the problem and the sociopaths in charge of it need removing, none of this will happen as the process is king and the paperwork is the most important factor in it all.

Yes, paperwork should be an aid to getting a good job done every time (pilot's checklists are a good example), not an ass covering exercise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The safeguarding training I went through recently makes it pretty clear that you can either report to senior colleague (appears to have happened), NSPCC (doesn't seem like it happened), the police (appears not to have happened) or local children's services (appears to have happened). On the face of it - it looks like it fell down at that next step but I guess the investigation will get to the bottom of it.

I also know people who work in child protection. The services are massively overstretched and often lack critical info (eg other services, like police, not sharing info).

.........I take it you are involved in the profession "loosely" described as social work?

could you please explain to me what precisely is meant by "safeguarding"

I ask because a close family member (who has Autism) "had a dream" ( whilst in hospital)

........this dream involved being frightened of parents

as a result "parents" were removed by a court case, guardians are now social services and family are no longer allowed any contact whatsoever!

..........at no point did anyone question family, court case was only announce 2 days after the event and no one seems to be able to help.

Clearly my opening line was due to family's "bemusement at social services as a profession rather than yourself (hopefully!?!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching Newsnight last night, one of the most alarming implications was that Daniel didn't stand out, that there were other half-starved children stealing from bins.

If this is true, we really need to understand why this is so & do everything in our power to prevent it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.........I take it you are involved in the profession "loosely" described as social work?

could you please explain to me what precisely is meant by "safeguarding"

I ask because a close family member (who has Autism) "had a dream" ( whilst in hospital)

........this dream involved being frightened of parents

as a result "parents" were removed by a court case, guardians are now social services and family are no longer allowed any contact whatsoever!

..........at no point did anyone question family, court case was only announce 2 days after the event and no one seems to be able to help.

Clearly my opening line was due to family's "bemusement at social services as a profession rather than yourself (hopefully!?!)

Nope, I'm not in social work or anything related. Just have a job that has some responsibilities which mean I needed to undertake some basic training in the area. I do know people who work in child protection (but not much about the details of their work).

Safeguarding is basically taking action if you either suspect abuse or have it reported to you by a child or vulnerable adult. Usually, it involves reporting it - but it can also involve discussing concerns with parents or guardians.

I don't have any expertise to advise you further. But some authorities seem to be remarkably on the ball in this area (probably because of high profile cases like the subject of this thread). I know of at least one person who works in the field whose own child fell and sustained a minor head fracture. The doctor was convinced it could not have been the result of a fall and reported it. The family were investigated by the local child protection and the mother was for a time was genuinely terrified of losing her job over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, I'm not in social work or anything related. Just have a job that has some responsibilities which mean I needed to undertake some basic training in the area. I do know people who work in child protection (but not much about the details of their work).

Safeguarding is basically taking action if you either suspect abuse or have it reported to you by a child or vulnerable adult. Usually, it involves reporting it - but it can also involve discussing concerns with parents or guardians.

I don't have any expertise to advise you further. But some authorities seem to be remarkably on the ball in this area (probably because of high profile cases like the subject of this thread). I know of at least one person who works in the field whose own child fell and sustained a minor head fracture. The doctor was convinced it could not have been the result of a fall and reported it. The family were investigated by the local child protection and the mother was for a time was genuinely terrified of losing her job over it.

Thank you, it sounds like yet another term for "the bleeding obvious" (as suspected)

.........a solicitor is involved but seems only to be making things worse, however I do not wish to go into any real detail on the net.

It does however bring us neatly back on topic..............

Social services seem to spend a lot of resources picking on the easy (and innocent) middle class targets but never seem to have enough resources to look into problem families, they do this process armed with a book of standard excuses should the poo hit the fan.

The biggest problem however is that no-one controls the whole picture............

social workers are only interested in housing and well being,

they are not interested in health/medical matters

this means that particularly with vulnerable clients, no one really achieves anything - everyone involved feels that the box should be ticked by someone else, and guess what......

kids die

mental health clients get abused or commit suicide

etc

when will this country learn how to wear the "moral" T-shirt it proudly shouts about owning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching Newsnight last night, one of the most alarming implications was that Daniel didn't stand out, that there were other half-starved children stealing from bins.

If this is true, we really need to understand why this is so & do everything in our power to prevent it.

by and large, from a variety of experience direct and indirect, this is simply due to sheer fecklessness on the parents' behalf

Outside the noise of the sheer feckless who, when challenged, would agree they're not being very good and indeed are capable of change , it must make it easier for psychopaths to hide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^There has been at least one case before where an apparently psychopathic mother had put on the act of being a responsible mother in front of the social workers when they made their brief visits, between the vast amounts of times said mother tortured her daughter to death. Yes, I think the lack of initiative and common sense (partially because of overweening Political Correctness) holds back social services from helping kids from families that have a cultural/language barrier around them.

And it's another stepchild that gets murdered by a step father (the brute instincts similar to a insecure silverback gorilla).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

by and large, from a variety of experience direct and indirect, this is simply due to sheer fecklessness on the parents' behalf

Outside the noise of the sheer feckless who, when challenged, would agree they're not being very good and indeed are capable of change , it must make it easier for psychopaths to hide

I strongly suspect you're right. I think we need a completely different approach to helping people & educating them in things that really matter. I used to teach physics, but couldn't help the feeling that a basic course in economics & how to budget would have been of far more use for most of them.

Unfortunately I can't see any such culture change happening any time soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^There has been at least one case before where an apparently psychopathic mother had put on the act of being a responsible mother in front of the social workers when they made their brief visits, between the vast amounts of times said mother tortured her daughter to death. Yes, I think the lack of initiative and common sense (partially because of overweening Political Correctness) holds back social services from helping kids from families that have a cultural/language barrier around them.

And it's another stepchild that gets murdered by a step father (the brute instincts similar to a insecure silverback gorilla).

i believe the simplest test for a psychopath is compulsive lying - and they're very good at it (think investment bankers ;) )

this is probably why it boils down to unexplained injuries and/or stories from the child - if these don't add up (weird dreams, broken bones included) then the presumption of compulsive lying raises its head, and the child goes into care just incase

the care workers natural tendency to forgive and encourage would need to be ignored at this point as they could simply get blagged by the parent/guardian

of course there are two very big problems - (1) this will inevitably have false positives (causing great pain to innocent parents) (2) even then the worst psychos will play the system - ie coercing their children to verbally support their web of lies (as happened to poor Daniel)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   215 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.