Agreement With Girlfriend

[SEW247]

I'd appreciate the thoughts / opinions of those on here in regards to a situation I find myself in with my long term girlfriend.

- I bought in May 2006 with 25% deposit, mortgage all in my name and she moved in 6 months after I moved in.

- She paid nothing for first 3 to 4 years due to unemployment / studying and I covered all mortgage expense and bills and we just split shopping.

- When she got a job she started paying me £500 p/m which covered all our joint expenses plus half of the interest of the mortgage. This worked out as half of the £58 p/m payment (because I was on a below BOE tracker for 5 years) at £29.

- I re-mortgaged in March 2013 and just around this time we'd been having the conversations about joint mortgage etc, and she lost her job and told me to go ahead and re-mortgaged in my name only. I'm now on repayment at £813 p/m (I/O is around £400).

We had in the past talked about what would happen if we broke up considering she felt she had contributed towards the house and wanted (still wants) some recognition of this. In hindsight, yes I should have not procrastinated and we should have put together some sort of agreement. However, with my increased payments and a review of our expenditure she is keen to review the situation and is pushing towards us getting some sort of agreement in place.

I feel reluctant as we have had problems in the relationship for the last 2 years, but things are finally on right road and I don't see us breaking up. Obviously she states that my reluctance = lack of commitment (which is not true, but when someone gets so het up about something like this, my natural instinct is to worry). We are also not going to be in the flat forever and I can see us moving in the next 2 years.

I guess the way I see things are:

- I took all the risk when I bought the house, everything was and is in my name and I got lucky when interest rates plummeted which meant low interest payment and I was able to save a lot of money. I also supported her financially during a difficult period, but recognise the help / advice she gave in some of the DIY work I have done which has helped improve the value of the property, but mostly it's down to pure luck in buying somewhere in an area of London which has gone up in value. If we had been in Northern Ireland and my house was worth 50% less then what would that mean?

- She effectively paid me a nominal sum for the interest on the mortgage, and in the grand scheme of things over the past 7 years it amounts to less than 5% of my outstanding mortgage (which I still have to pay off). In effect this suited her as she effectively lived in the house for a very small amount per month £29 versus what it would cost to rent (probably around £650 p/m).

- I don't see how it is possibly to ascribe some sort of "fair settlement" if we were to break up, based upon what she has contributed, with no trail to audit as to what exactly has been paid over the years.

- I expect that we will stay together and had always been of the thought that wherever we move to next, I would sell my house and all the equity goes in as a deposit and we own the new place together. However, the fact that I am fully prepared to put whatever profit I make into a new place seems to not count for anything (she has no savings to go towards a new place).

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I almost feel I can't win. If I don't draw up and agreement "I'm not committed" and if I do, how does one come up with a fair / reasonable agreement? However, if we were to break up I'm not the sort of person who would simply tell her to f@#k off and throw her out on the street with nothing, but saying that I wouldn't want any agreement to preclude any break up which ends up leaving me in a bad financial situation.

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do / or what would you do in my situation? I really don't want to get lawyers involved!

Thanks

[Cosmic Apple]

She contributed towards the cost of renting the capital from the bank to buy the place. That money is gone, its a cost of living, she should accept that.

As for capital gains, your are the only one on the hook if you'd lost and have probably been the only one paying towards improvements, so I think its fair if you split you keep the capital gains. If you move in together and buy your own place the capital gains lower the amount of capital you need to rent, so you both win.

[Harry Monk]

If you bought the house in 2006 then unless it's in London it will be in tens of thousands of pounds of negative equity now , just dump it onto her, job's a good 'un

[finallysold]

I'd appreciate the thoughts / opinions of those on here in regards to a situation I find myself in with my long term girlfriend.

- I bought in May 2006 with 25% deposit, mortgage all in my name and she moved in 6 months after I moved in.

- She paid nothing for first 3 to 4 years due to unemployment / studying and I covered all mortgage expense and bills and we just split shopping.

- When she got a job she started paying me £500 p/m which covered all our joint expenses plus half of the interest of the mortgage. This worked out as half of the £58 p/m payment (because I was on a below BOE tracker for 5 years) at £29.

- I re-mortgaged in March 2013 and just around this time we'd been having the conversations about joint mortgage etc, and she lost her job and told me to go ahead and re-mortgaged in my name only. I'm now on repayment at £813 p/m (I/O is around £400).

We had in the past talked about what would happen if we broke up considering she felt she had contributed towards the house and wanted (still wants) some recognition of this. In hindsight, yes I should have not procrastinated and we should have put together some sort of agreement. However, with my increased payments and a review of our expenditure she is keen to review the situation and is pushing towards us getting some sort of agreement in place.

I feel reluctant as we have had problems in the relationship for the last 2 years, but things are finally on right road and I don't see us breaking up. Obviously she states that my reluctance = lack of commitment (which is not true, but when someone gets so het up about something like this, my natural instinct is to worry). We are also not going to be in the flat forever and I can see us moving in the next 2 years.

I guess the way I see things are:

- I took all the risk when I bought the house, everything was and is in my name and I got lucky when interest rates plummeted which meant low interest payment and I was able to save a lot of money. I also supported her financially during a difficult period, but recognise the help / advice she gave in some of the DIY work I have done which has helped improve the value of the property, but mostly it's down to pure luck in buying somewhere in an area of London which has gone up in value. If we had been in Northern Ireland and my house was worth 50% less then what would that mean?

- She effectively paid me a nominal sum for the interest on the mortgage, and in the grand scheme of things over the past 7 years it amounts to less than 5% of my outstanding mortgage (which I still have to pay off). In effect this suited her as she effectively lived in the house for a very small amount per month £29 versus what it would cost to rent (probably around £650 p/m).

- I don't see how it is possibly to ascribe some sort of "fair settlement" if we were to break up, based upon what she has contributed, with no trail to audit as to what exactly has been paid over the years.

- I expect that we will stay together and had always been of the thought that wherever we move to next, I would sell my house and all the equity goes in as a deposit and we own the new place together. However, the fact that I am fully prepared to put whatever profit I make into a new place seems to not count for anything (she has no savings to go towards a new place).

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I almost feel I can't win. If I don't draw up and agreement "I'm not committed" and if I do, how does one come up with a fair / reasonable agreement? However, if we were to break up I'm not the sort of persilon who would simply tell her to f@#k off and throw her out on the street with nothing, but saying that I wouldn't want any agreement to preclude any break up which ends up leaving me in a bad financial situation.

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do / or what would you do in my situation? I really don't want to get lawyers involved!

Thanks

I dont want to be harsh, but she seems to be carrying a huge entitlement complex. you bought a house with 75% mortgage. she moves in and for the first four years not only has she not contributed to the mortgage, i assume her contributions to living expenses are not too huge either. so she is living rent free as the owner of the house. then she gets a job and contributes 29 pounds to the mortgage every month. but isnt it wonderful that she is now contributing equally to living expenses. now she loses her job again and she is back to square one where she is not even paying nominal rent. after all this she feels like you owe her? she should be really grateful to you and express her appreciation to you.

Instead she is resentful towards you and wants some legal 'security' and compensation for having what. - putting up with you for all these years!

the cynic in me says she is ambivalent towards you and also resentful that she is so dependent on you financially. she is wondering what will happen if you break up and how she will be left with nothing to show for all these years. this despite the fact that her contributions are paltry to say the least. all you need to do now is propose and marry her and she can legally clean you out.

my suggestion is to go to a lawyer and shore up your investment. you might already be too late and dont be surprised if she has already made her investigations.

why are you still with her and supporting her financially to this degree if you are not married? sorry to be blunt but as a man in the UK, you have very little protection from the courts. and if she stakes a claim and breaks up with you, you will have to sell your house to pay her off. dont think this cant happen to you. her attitude, as far as i can see is very poor.

[Harry Monk]

my suggestion is to go to a lawyer

No, no, a million times NO! Go to a lawyer? What the Hell are you on?

[lid]

Listen to Eddie

[The Knimbies who say No]

You might have just found your STR mug buyer.

edit unnecessarily rude, apologies. Post #47 is spot on imo.

[Harry Monk]

"Women are like hurricanes, when they come they are wet and windy. when they go they take your house with them" (Native Indian proverb)

[R K]

You really can't beat a good love story.

(psst.....she's already planning her exit strategy)

[Guillotine]

Have her buy half the house from you with a mortgage in her own name. Give her a 25% plus deposit.

You'll both then effectively be even, you can still support her and look heroic paying for holidays and gifts and that sort of thing whilst giving her the sense of ownership and responsibility.

Either that or if you love each other get married.

[Harry Monk]

(psst.....she's already planning her exit strategy)

Probably has been since Day 1... snakes with tits.

[R K]

Probably has been since Day 1... snakes with tits.

We should write a book Harry.

(I'm happy with your title)

[Odin]

I'd appreciate the thoughts / opinions of those on here in regards to a situation I find myself in with my long term girlfriend.

...

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do / or what would you do in my situation? I really don't want to get lawyers involved!

Separate the living costs that would have been incurred no matter if the housing was rented or mortgaged. Elec, Gas, Water, Council Tax, TV license, etc...

With what is left you need to reconfirm if this was for the interest payment element of the mortgage (i.e. similar to any kind of rent) or if all or some portion was to be paid on the capital (which does not make any sense).

She effectively paid me a nominal sum for the interest on the mortgage, and in the grand scheme of things over the past 7 years it amounts to less than 5% of my outstanding mortgage (which I still have to pay off).

Which figure are you using ? Repayment of capital ? or Repayment of capital and compound mortgage interest ? Is mortgage over 30+ years ? Maybe your figure should read "less than 1%" in the grand scheme of things.

- I don't see how it is possibly to ascribe some sort of "fair settlement" if we were to break up, based upon what she has contributed, with no trail to audit as to what exactly has been paid over the years.

Well household bills are a still documented many years after. If she paid always in cash it would be her problem to prove the values and claims in court. Before then being able to make a case for the meaning of "fair" in the context of your relationship.

Sure you should seek some kind of legal help in drawing up any future agreement, this may not mean getting a lawyer involved but maybe more like buying officially worded agreements off the peg, probably from a lawyer.

At the end of the day this is all anecdotal advice. You are the one in the position and your relationship, living and financial arrangements are important matters for both of you, however always plan for the worst and hope for the best. When it comes to not being committed remind her of the opportunity she had to commit herself during the time of remortgage and the actions she chose at the time. You need to reconfirm the standing and agreement in place already over monies spent and future monies spent just to clear the air. Offer to allow her to pay more (if that is possible) to then have some stake in the repayment part going forward or instead elect to show your commitment to each other in the near future when you expect to upgrade your house.

I presume you shall upgrade to consider marriage, children and such. So in the long term if she continues to show commitment to you (my removing the earache over what should be a minor issue in the grand scheme of things) she will end up with half of it anyway, regardless of the agreement she feels you must make today. The commitment is just her attempt to solicit an emotional response from you, just be the man, you don't have to concur to her.

Just food for thought.

[cybernoid]

she felt she had contributed towards the house and wanted (still wants) some recognition of this.

I find that rather baffling

[Dorkins]

How much equity is there in this property? Seems like it would be important to figure that out before worrying about how to divvy it up.

[SNACR]

Think I'd be dusting off the 'it's not you, it's me' speech - although I am an inveterate commitmentphobe.

[Self Employed Youth]

Compare the amounts invested (inflation adjusted) and split profits.

Live life, don't waste it on arguments over fictitious housing wealth.

I've seen a 26 year old friend and a 50 year old friend die the past month from heart attacks. I suppose both had some form of housing wealth, one much more considerable than the other's, but none of that really matters anymore.

[gadget]

- When she got a job she started paying me £500 p/m which covered all our joint expenses plus half of the interest of the mortgage.

... In effect this suited her as she effectively lived in the house for a very small amount per month £29 versus what it would cost to rent (probably around £650 p/m).

Not sure about your maths there.

Sounds to me she was paying an effective rent of £250

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do / or what would you do in my situation? I really don't want to get lawyers involved!

Thanks

Situation seems pretty clear to me. The house is yours. If/when you get married it'll be half hers.

[Lewis Gordon Pugh]

House is yours. Keep it. If she wants to stick around, cool. If not, you'll still have a house.

[SpectrumFX]

Either;

1) The whole time you were a partnership. In it together and sure she's due half the house, or

2) She's just some woman who you've been letting live in your house

Only.you know the answer

[Squeeky]

Well if your other half is wanting to know the percentage they "own" of the property, legally it is nothing*... but if you want to be seen as being fair, take the total cost of the mortgage + deposit over it's entire lifetime and work out the amount she has contributed as a percentage. That should give you a reasonable idea of her spot price percentage. Yes it gets skewed a bit by inflation, but you don't want to over complicate things.

Just remember the percentage isn't fixed. If interest rates go up, her contribution becomes a smaller percentage, so you'll need to recalculate when she wants to cash in.

* if you marry, or get a joint mortgage that all changes.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do / or what would you do in my situation? I really don't want to get lawyers involved!

I've got to concur with the tone of the responses so far. Been there, done that, decided that the answer to the question was '2) She's just some woman who I've been letting live in my home' (at a discounted rate)'

And, as you've already touched on in your OP, if circumstances changed and you were in negative equity would your girlfriend help bear the losses as well as share any gains? The answer to that question is pretty crucial imho.

[the gardener]

Remortgage up to 95% (say it's for home improvements) stash the cash in a safe/buy gold with it, whatever, make it disappear. Then tell her she is entitled to half the house. Remortgage again and this time get her to put her name on the mortgage. Job done.

[Tankus]

She's further along with with the exit route than you are.

[wherebee]

She's further along with with the exit route than you are.

+1

If she had been by herself and renting, she would have been paying more, in all likelihood, plus the cost of moving, less companionship etc. If she is asking, be very waary. either she has an exit plan / someone else on the side, or someone close to her is egging her on by saying she 'deserves' it.

I'd do the maths, and say to her bluntly - look, you want half the house, you have to give me half the capital and then we can split bills and interest costs fairly.

Trust me - I had a close mate in your position and he didn't have enough caution. Cost him 250k GBP when he married her and then it broke down.....